Patch 5.4 Trailer, Predictions, and Hints

[Jandor]

Unless told otherwise, though, I think it's safe to assume that Summoning is basically Creation magic with an external Aether source, since the summoners lack the internal reserves to do true Creation magic.

I'm fine with summoning being a relation, a different route to a similar end-goal makes sense. My main point was that being more restored doesn't really seem to actually amount to much though, even 8/14 of the way there you still register a zero on the ancient magic scale.

The people of the source don't live 8x longer than their shard counterparts, their spells don't do 8x as much damage, they don't have 8x the reserves of internal aether to call upon, it basically just doesn't seem to make any practical difference. You get a denser soul, and a dense soul can be handy for some niche things like absorbing a whole bunch of light aether (although even then that wouldn't have really panned out if we didn't have the whole blessing of light thing going on) but that seems to be, so far at least, pretty much the extent of it.

Really feels like being restored is an all or nothing sort of deal, so the idea that because we're partially restored we're more capable of resummoning Zodiark just doesn't track for me. Being 8/14th restored doesn't make the people of the source 8/14th millennia old ancient sorcerer, they're still regular old mortals with regular old mortal limits.

[Kesey]

I'm fine with summoning being a relation, a different route to a similar end-goal makes sense. My main point was that being more restored doesn't really seem to actually amount to much though, even 8/14 of the way there you still register a zero on the ancient magic scale.

The people of the source don't live 8x longer than their shard counterparts, their spells don't do 8x as much damage, they don't have 8x the reserves of internal aether to call upon, it basically just doesn't seem to make any practical difference. You get a denser soul, and a dense soul can be handy for some niche things like absorbing a whole bunch of light aether (although even then that wouldn't have really panned out if we didn't have the whole blessing of light thing going on) but that seems to be, so far at least, pretty much the extent of it.

Really feels like being restored is an all or nothing sort of deal, so the idea that because we're partially restored we're more capable of resummoning Zodiark just doesn't track for me. Being 8/14th restored doesn't make the people of the source 8/14th millennia old ancient sorcerer, they're still regular old mortals with regular old mortal limits.

But its not an all or nothing deal. It was explicitly stated that 1 more rejoining will put enough aether into the source to awaken Zodiark. Its not about people being more rejoined and what that means for them and/or their power/magic. What I believe has you confused is phraseology of "summoning Zodiark". He already has been summoned, Hydaelyn locked him in the moon, so really more like a charge the aether battery on the source to let Zodiark wake up, then a traditional summon.

[Jandor]

But its not an all or nothing deal. It was explicitly stated that 1 more rejoining will put enough aether into the source to awaken Zodiark. Its not about people being more rejoined and what that means for them and/or their power/magic. What I believe has you confused is phraseology of "summoning Zodiark". He already has been summoned, Hydaelyn locked him in the moon, so really more like a charge the aether battery on the source to let Zodiark wake up, then a traditional summon.

ngl I think if that's what you initially meant you phrased it pretty oddly IMHO. Never mind though.

I don't recall where it was explicitly stated one more rejoining would be enough, if you could point me towards that scene I'd appreciate it. After all, there was an alternate timeline where one more rejoining actually happened, it doesn't seem like it was enough there.

[Kesey]

snip.

It's brought up a few times in ARR by the Ascians to show how close they are to realizing their goals, but to be clear an 8th rejoining just lets Zodiark out of the moon. And the alternate timeline clearly represents itself as being in the middle of an apocalypse even if Zodiark isn't seen. Also the passage of time seen in alternate future is explained too, because the summoning of Zodiark is just a delay to the end days and not an actual solution to the end days. The Ancients that follow Venat and summon Hydaelyn explain this.

So most likely the chain of events are as follows: 8th calamity/rejoining is achieved, Zodiark comes out of the moon, Zodiark causes a world of chaos because he can rewrite the rules of existence, because Zodiark is a primal and rewriting consumes aether he drains the star of aether (this is the apocalypse and takes place over a long period of time), the lack of aether leads to the final days (albeit not immediately).

This is why Hydaelyn was summoned in the past, most likely to solve the Zodiark aether follow problem, as apposed to actually confronting Zodiark. Now to further back up this, the WOL in 5.4 remembers the cave painting in Rak'tika where it shows Hydaelyn and Zodiark standing together. This implies that Hydaelyn and Zodiark co-existed and then something happened leading to their confrontation. Furthermore, since Azem didn't participate in summoning Hydaelyn or Zodiark, this is most likely the part of the story Azem did participate in. Hence why we have the Azem stone and think about it while Scions are having another conversation.

So in theory the final days of the past play out like this: Creation magic drains aether from the planet causing the final days, Ancients summon Zodiark to rewrite rules of existence to stop the final days, Zodiark is a primal and even though he saves the world is still draining aether causing the final days to just happen in the future, Ancients tempered to Zodiark refuse to listen to Ancients not tempered about the reality of Zodiark, those Ancients follow Venat because debate and discussion are the corner stone of their culture and now that doesn't happen because of tempering, they summon Hydaelyn specifically to deal with the aether flow problem, then the missing event transpires (here is where Azem is most likely involved with a potential 3rd solution), that event leads to Hydaelyn and Zodiark confrontation, Hydaelyn triumphs and creates the shards so Zodiark can't access his power.

I'm sorry this was a longer answer than you were anticipating, but in my mind all of these bits of lore are inter-related and are coming to fruition.

[Jandor]

It's brought up a few times in ARR by the Ascians to show how close they are to realizing their goals, but to be clear an 8th rejoining just lets Zodiark out of the moon. And the alternate timeline clearly represents itself as being in the middle of an apocalypse even if Zodiark isn't seen. Also the passage of time seen in alternate future is explained too, because the summoning of Zodiark is just a delay to the end days and not an actual solution to the end days. The Ancients that follow Venat and summon Hydaelyn explain this.

So most likely the chain of events are as follows: 8th calamity/rejoining is achieved, Zodiark comes out of the moon, Zodiark causes a world of chaos because he can rewrite the rules of existence, because Zodiark is a primal and rewriting consumes aether he drains the star of aether (this is the apocalypse and takes place over a long period of time), the lack of aether leads to the final days (albeit not immediately).

<snip>

The 8th rejoining world was apocalyptic because there had just been a rejoining. They do tend to be rather calamitous events.

I don't think we can really be sure that Zodiark passively consumes aether like current primals do either. Hydaelyn was created using much the same method and has been knocking about for several thousand years seemingly without causing any aether related issues.

[Kesey]

The 8th rejoining world was apocalyptic because there had just been a rejoining. They do tend to be rather calamitous events.

I don't think we can really be sure that Zodiark passively consumes aether like current primals do either. Hydaelyn was created using much the same method and has been knocking about for several thousand years seemingly without causing any aether related issues.

Although this is a conjecture, Venat specifically states that she must be the one to become The Heart of Hydaelyn, I assume, if my theory is correct, it is to make sure Hydaelyn doesn't have the desire to siphon aether like we see other primals. And possibly not temper people either.

Zodiark, on the other hand, could have had this aspect overlooked. I say this because what we know states that Convocation didn't see that summoning Zodiark would only delay the end days instead of adverting them. Meaning, so how any change that Zodiark makes to stop the end days, extends, but also sets up the problem leading to the end days anyway. So what makes Zodiark different from Hydaelyn that it brings the end of the world anyway?

So facts we know are: the sound(s) come from the planet, the planet is the source of aether, all primals (Hydaelyn as the only possible exception) consume the aether of their environment (among other sources), Zodiark is summoned to stop end days but is completely connected to the planet, but the process of changing the laws of reality to stop the final days sets off the process again to restart the final days. No evidence is given that Zodiark would function differently that any other normal primal, other than he is an elder primal so his scope of power is just well beyond normal primals.

This is how I came to believe that aether consumption is the key triggering the final days. And to continue the logic, it had to be creation magic and the abuse of aether caused by casting it that leads to the final days in the first place. And, until patch 5.5 gives us a better explanation, the towers Fandaniel placed are possibly siphoning planet aether to Zodiark on the moon.

So given what we do know, has informed my answers for what we don't know.

[Veloran]

Although this is a conjecture, Venat specifically states that she must be the one to become The Heart of Hydaelyn, I assume, if my theory is correct, it is to make sure Hydaelyn doesn't have the desire to siphon aether like we see other primals. And possibly not temper people either.

Why exactly would Venat specifically mantling Hydaelyn prevent that?

I say this because what we know states that Convocation didn't see that summoning Zodiark would only delay the end days instead of adverting them.

We have no idea why the Anyder posit this.

but the process of changing the laws of reality to stop the final days sets off the process again to restart the final days.

We have nothing at all stating this, that what Zodiark did would somehow cause the Final Days again, based on his actions.

No evidence is given that Zodiark would function differently that any other normal primal, other than he is an elder primal so his scope of power is just well beyond normal primals.

No evidence is given that Hydaelyn functions any differently from Zodiark. The idea that she doesn't maintain herself through consuming aether comes about purely due to the fact that she's been getting weaker over time, which is only a contradiction on it's face and ignores that we have instances of her consuming aether to empower herself anyway.

This is how I came to believe that aether consumption is the key triggering the final days. And to continue the logic, it had to be creation magic and the abuse of aether caused by casting it that leads to the final days in the first place. And, until patch 5.5 gives us a better explanation, the towers Fandaniel placed are possibly siphoning planet aether to Zodiark on the moon.

So aether consumption was the cause of the Final Days, which the planet sought to rectify by eliminating huge quantities of aether by leaving the world a barren wasteland, which the Convocation halted by sacrificing huge amounts of aether, which they also contributed to by sacrificing huge amounts of aether, which was solved by Hydaelyn consuming a huge amount of aether to be summoned, which has somehow never reappeared again despite entire Umbral Eras being caused by the mass siphoning of aether from the land?

And this is all ignoring that the Ancients used their own personal aether for creation magic to begin with, not the planet's aether. Also, a better explanation for the towers already exists, namely that instead of them beaming aether from the planet to Zodiark, they're beaming aether from Zodiark to the planet, hence the tempering (I don't think this is exactly correct, but it's more mechanically sound based on what we've seen them do than the opposite).

[Iscah]

But its not an all or nothing deal. It was explicitly stated that 1 more rejoining will put enough aether into the source to awaken Zodiark.

Explicitly stated where?

Also, early-game quotes about the Ascians' plans are shaky at best - for all the writers try to look like they planned things all along, I would say there has clearly been a shift in the Ascians' intended goals (if indeed the writers had a plan beyond "say ominous things about being close to it and we'll work out the details later") and they've done their best to smooth over the join, but the cracks still show.

Also, the fact that G'raha says nothing about Zodiark's reawakening having happened in the post-eighth-Calamity timeline makes it even less likely to be true. He's been working with a group that knows about Hydaelyn and Zodiark and has done research into the cause of the Calamity to the point of identifying the rejoined shard. I don't think Zodiark's awakening would escape their notice, and I don't think the writers would want to not mention it happening because it would be a great way to raise the stakes even higher. Even more so with the "hopeful epilogue" to the other timeline's story in Tales From the Shadows.

[Iscah]

Repeating a question that you seem to have missed the first time because it went up while you were in the middle of writing a post.

But its not an all or nothing deal. It was explicitly stated that 1 more rejoining will put enough aether into the source to awaken Zodiark.

Where was this explicitly stated?

[Kesey]

Repeating a question that you seem to have missed the first time because it went up while you were in the middle of writing a post.



Where was this explicitly stated?

This is implicitly stated by the Ascians in ARR. If they can accomplish 1 more rejoining with 1 more calamity, they will be able to free Zodiark. This why the plot constantly has us stopping their 8th calamity plans. First with the ultima weapon. Then with their meddling with the dragonsong war. Then giving Nidhog's eyes to summon Shinryu to complicate the liberation of Ala Mhigo. Then the black rose set up with the first's flood of light. Then Elidibus and his warriors of light. Now onto Fandaniel and his towers.