SE: Frontlines is bad - really bad - and for a dumb reason. Please fix it.

[Esmoire]

At the very least, I want to see 24 man matches make a return. Maybe the size of the maps should be tweaked to accommodate the lesser number of players but I've had much more fun in frontlines when the battles are strategic and less about the 'zerg'.

I wasn't a fan of 8v8v8, since it doesn't feel like FL anymore. I do think yeah the maps were a part of it: Shatter in particular was miserable. That said, it was awful to get dropped into an 8v8v8 when I queued at night, and it would just make me reluctant to queue late... and I am like the core audience for FL, with nearly 1200 matches player in the past few years.

What I really think this means, and what would help with the queue hours things while having a more strategic gameplay experience available, would be more small scale experiences available that aren't 4v4 Feast. For example, maybe bringing back the 8v8 Feast they had and rebranding it, or a new mode or something.

Pvp is no different to any other content in this respect. You either do your research before you go in or you go in blind and figure it out.

As for the points. It’s the same as saying you don’t understand how damage is calculated. Does it matter? Do the things that makes the number go up. It’s not difficult.

The irony is that the example here doesn't work in the subject matter. Actually, for PvP, where the damage is fixed and only modified by status modifiers (order of operations) and tight RNG variance, thus actually it is easy to calculate damage in PvP. In general they tried to make the numerical nuance of PvP more clear to understand. For example, when a destructible objective is taken down, you do get to see the number of points extracted. Thus, the designers seem to have a mind for making things more tangible and understandable... Just means there is an inconsistently in the UI and a weak UX supporting it.

I'd go so far as to say that I'd like if more of FFXIV revealed more information without overwhelming the base user. It would be cool to have more numbers in general, especially for those who want it. Right now we know a lot of stuff like, say, how fast you move with ninja passive VS Peloton VS Sprint from user testing. The community efforts are commendable and while I can see why a lot of stuff has to be kept a black box, I'd like if the developer was willing to disclose more of how FFXIV worked.

[DoH]

Pvp is no different to any other content in this respect. You either do your research before you go in or you go in blind and figure it out.

As for the points. It’s the same as saying you don’t understand how damage is calculated. Does it matter? Do the things that makes the number go up. It’s not difficult.

You're missing my point completely. I understand the mechanics and how they work because I've spent time looking at third-party resources. My complaint is that the majority of the people who play PvP don't do this and so you end up playing with a bunch of people who don't know what the objectives are whatsoever or only have a vague sense of how to get points and so they don't know how to prioritize things. There's an entire minute that FFXIV makes you wait once you enter the PvP match - that would be the perfect time to display some information regarding objectives, points, etc.

Also, I think your point about how damage is calculated just raises more issues with this game. Sure, maybe they don't want to let people see how much DPS everyone is doing because of "toxicity" or whatever, but it annoys me to no end that there is literally nothing in this game that tells you what various stats do. What does 1 point of "Physical Damage" on a weapon convert into versus 1 point of your primary stat (STR, DEX, etc.) versus 1 point of a secondary stat (CH, DH, DET, etc.)? Most players basically have to end up going to The Balance or some third-party resource to figure out how to optimize their gear (i.e., mixing and matching current raid gear with tomestone gear and relic weapons - for example, the current BiS for WHM is arguably the ilvl 500 relic weapon (and not the ilvl 505 Edenchoir weapon) with a mix of ilvl 500 Edenchoir and Augmented Chrystarium gear). It baffles me why they seem to go out of their way to obscure point calculation on any front. I stand by my original comment that it would be like playing a sport but not knowing the point system thereof.

[ElazulHP]

*angry popoto noises*

[ElazulHP]

PvP in FFXIV is fine. It is side content as was intended. Why don't you try it and form your own opinion? I know people love to allow other people to dictate how they should think/feel about anything. Think for yourself. Stop being a puppet.

PvP has a fraction of the player base playing it and it's really not all that great. Dunno what to tell you, it's really not all that popular and it's a huge meme outside the FFXIV bubble you guys have put yourselves in. Most other MMO players laugh at how terrible it is in comparison to other MMO and specifically tell people to avoid FFXIV if they want a decent PvP game. *shrug*

Could it be improved? Sure. Is it likely to be improved to the point where it's enjoyable? Possibly. I dunno it really depends on 6.0 I guess, but it's unlikely considering the trend it's been on for years now.

[Reap00]

PvP has a fraction of the player base playing it and it's really not all that great. Dunno what to tell you, it's really not all that popular and it's a huge meme outside the FFXIV bubble you guys have put yourselves in. Most other MMO players laugh at how terrible it is in comparison to other MMO and specifically tell people to avoid FFXIV if they want a decent PvP game. *shrug*

Could it be improved? Sure. Is it likely to be improved to the point where it's enjoyable? Possibly. I dunno it really depends on 6.0 I guess, but it's unlikely considering the trend it's been on for years now.

It absolutely cannot be improved to the point where it is enjoyable to the herd. The herd has declared a judgment! FFXIV PvP is BAD! ALL MUST COMPLY! You guys eat that and enjoy it. I will queue for pvp and enjoy it.

[MsMisato]

the npc goblin at the wolves den actual explains rival wings and what each mech does. If you speak to him a second time. Other than that it takes practice, communication and coordination.

Pretty sure when you talk to the front line npc its gives a general idea of the objective of each map.

Biggest problem I see is poor communication in the alliance and members that dont coorperate with their alliance. The alliance that does communicate the best with members that cooperate usually wins. They Make use of tools such as macro call outs and such.

Frontlines and rival wings is probably the one place you can ask what is up if you and usually get some sort if response.

[Thamorian]

I hate PvP in FF14. My solution would be to rip it all out and make all rewards available elsewhere. Don't even replace it. Only reluctantly do it for the glamour rewards. Other MMOs, I played PvP because it was fun and enjoyable. The way SE handles these 3 way matches is really stupid and I have no idea how it can be fixed. Maybe start off with removing battle high completely.

[Sauteed]

At the very least, I want to see 24 man matches make a return. Maybe the size of the maps should be tweaked to accommodate the lesser number of players but I've had much more fun in frontlines when the battles are strategic and less about the 'zerg'.

Additional rewards and incentives to queue up would work as well. There should be more things to spend wolf marks on.

24 player pvp forces you to pull weight or get gibbed. The only reason I think they took it out regardless of what was said was so people didn't feel bad for not being able to blame someone else for not being a more capable or adaptive pvper. And I am not a great pvper I did feel like I learned more and became a better player after just a couple rounds of 24 player matches. It is absolutely ridiculous they took this mode out imo.

[GrizzlyTank]

Irks me that i have to keep the large map up all the time to get a clear view of the objectives (same issue when farming fates) while continuously closing it accidental because I'm playing with a controller.

Other then that, 24x3 is fun when people know what to do.

[ElazulHP]

It absolutely cannot be improved to the point where it is enjoyable to the herd. The herd has declared a judgment! FFXIV PvP is BAD! ALL MUST COMPLY! You guys eat that and enjoy it. I will queue for pvp and enjoy it.

Attitudes like this are why the devs get away with leaving it the way it is. I guess enjoy mediocrity. *shrug*