6.0 Red Mage speculation

[Duelle]

Fixing Embolden has been a common suggestion for awhile now. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t happen eventually.

I take it by "fix" you mean "make it affect all damage types".

Depending on who you ask, Embolden doesn't really need fixing. I've seen arguments that it's a ridiculously powerful buff as is, and making it affect non-physical DPS in addition to physical DPS would make it too good for its own...good. I'm sort of in the middle on that one. On the one hand, I'm sure it'll feel more useful in magic heavy comps. On the other, it might(?) become highly sought after like Trick Attack and technically Battle Litany. Could go either way, I think.

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Y'know. That thing that happens every expansion. The one where healers are up to Rank IV+ of their DoTs and attack spells, all tanks/melee have an AoE combo, and all DPS gain new abilities for their main rotations that uh, checking my notes here, don't regularly cost potency from elsewhere in the kit unless the job ends up jumping ahead of all other DPS and warrants direct nerfs?

Nice try, but that's not the same as making the finisher phase of a design happen more often.

As for your other attempt at a point, that the game has to show character growth in some way is a given. This is why jobs get new abilities and upgrades. That said, it's one thing when new abilities add mechanics (PLD with Sword Oath stacks), show the aforementioned growth (Edge of Shadow replacing Edge of Darkness), or expand on something that existed (pre-revamp Abandon and Fel Cleave). It's another when you're messing with the payoff phase of a job that is designed around build & spend phases.

In the context of resource generation, it'd be a different story if RDM had been designed to spend resources piecemeal instead of in large chunks, because then the job would be able to see a benefit from greater resource generation without running into the problem I've mentioned (granted, you might instead get something akin to SAM+Shinten where you have to be really conscious of when to resource dump, and I don't know how that would be received).

If your concern is that the damage of our combo will be reduced relative to everything else, unless the only advancements the devs choose to add are either another finisher a la Scorch or traits that buff the damage of our combo directly, that's literally going to happen anyway.

Simplest way I can put it is that increasing the frequency of the melee combo would be like making Midare Setsugekka permanently usable at 1 Sen or making a single Mirage Dive grant full Gaze of the First Brood. Like the melee combo, those are all balanced around taking time to get access to them by generating resources or waiting a specified amount of time. And like the melee combo, issues are likely to arise if you make the aforementioned changes.

... and you're trying to argue about "power creep" when you're not even optimizing just for the sake of your aesthetic?

Considering the general strategy for encounters involves standing directly behind the mob and moving only to deal with mechanics, this isn't much of an argument. But nice try, I guess...?

The only positive gameplay effect you listed hinges on it being an alternative to Displacement, which simply feeds my point that it would have no place if Displacement was unlinked from our damage or could be controlled on its own.

I did mention that if something were done to Displacement, Engagement would need a redesign or replacement. As I said, that hinges on something being done about Displacement, which I find unlikely.

you're not addressing the question of why it's relevant that the skill be restricted to melee range in the first place

What I suggested is a sword swing. Sword swings are restricted to melee because swords have a limited range. That's sort of how they work. And despite rumors to the contrary, Red Mages use swords (FFXIV's version of the job tends to use them as props instead of weapons, but that's neither here nor there). Also, for being touted as a "melee and ranged hybrid" (Yoshida's words, not mine), there's a lot more ranged than there is melee. Even without a redesign of the job on the table, I'd aim to correct that where possible.

Displacement and Engagement have reasons built in - Displacement makes a gap when the combo is done, Engagement uses the cooldown when Displacing would be dangerous.

The fact something like Engagement was implemented in the first place indicates that making the gap opener a built-in part of the rotation was a stupid idea. If anything, Engagement's existence vindicates that viewpoint.

Oh goody, pseudo-positionals for us that we don't have some True North equivalent for.

You'd just have to unlearn to needlessly jump away from a mob, just like BRDs had to unlearn spamming Blunt Arrow and DRGs had to unlearn spamming Leg Sweep.

Now in your case, you mention melee Fleche has less damage and another mechanical benefit, but unless that benefit comes out to a net damage increase in some tangible way -- a buff, a DoT, whatever, bearing in mind it already has a short cooldown so those would essentially be used on cooldown anyway -- it will be avoided under most circumstances, and in fact will probably do exactly the opposite of what you've been pushing for by encouraging people to spend less time in melee so as not to accidentally trade damage.

I never specified the mechanic, though because I like tying melee with magic, I'd probably opt to increase damage of the next spell cast, or proc an additional spell hit on the target when struck by the next spell to make up the difference (the latter would probably be better since the extra hit would not be dependent on whether you're casting Jolt II or Verstone/Verfire).

I am and have been pretty sure the job you're looking for is Mystic Knight, and has been.

Actually, no. Mystic Knight would be something along the lines of this, which, as I've said before, is a completely separate beast from RDM.

[Archwizard]

And despite rumors to the contrary, Red Mages use swords (FFXIV's version of the job tends to use them as props instead of weapons, but that's neither here nor there). Also, for being touted as a "melee and ranged hybrid" (Yoshida's words, not mine), there's a lot more ranged than there is melee. Even without a redesign of the job on the table, I'd aim to correct that where possible.

This was the point where I stopped reading your post. It's all a bunch of grasping at straws to circle back around to the same conclusion you've already made despite all practicality, and substituting in your reality in the most entitled voice to vindicate your wish fulfillment.

For what it's worth, I do think you have some interesting design ideas, but you're far, far too pushy about how the devs should have done things your way from your lofty armchair, and it costs you whatever credibility you might have built up for them.

The devs have picked a direction for the job already, evidently it doesn't match yours.

[Katie_Kitty]

Fix embolden please.

[Gruntler]

What I suggested is a sword swing. Sword swings are restricted to melee because swords have a limited range. That's sort of how they work. And despite rumors to the contrary, Red Mages use swords (FFXIV's version of the job tends to use them as props instead of weapons, but that's neither here nor there). Also, for being touted as a "melee and ranged hybrid" (Yoshida's words, not mine), there's a lot more ranged than there is melee. Even without a redesign of the job on the table, I'd aim to correct that where possible.

The issue with this is that we are a) a caster, b) balanced around being a caster, c) only in melee for short bursts which is a skill-tester for any caster when we're taking up a ranged spot and therefore expected to deal with ranged mechanics which put us at range, and d) a caster.

The fact that YOU believe that it's supposed to be some gishy sword-mage thing, despite that not being its actual identity except in that one MMO with wonky job design, doesn't make it so. RDM's always been about having -spell variety- at the cost of reduced raw spell power and charges, with auto-attacks as something the RDM can do between casts, though not with as great effectiveness as actual melee attackers.

Then, once FF5 hit, the 'turret' identity became solidified, with chainspell being the big thing it eventually brings to the table.

That's why RDM's identity is based around chainspell. Because chainspell's been what it's been about since FF5.

[Erdwin]

The issue with this is that we are a) a caster, b) balanced around being a caster, c) only in melee for short bursts which is a skill-tester for any caster when we're taking up a ranged spot and therefore expected to deal with ranged mechanics which put us at range, and d) a caster.

The fact that YOU believe that it's supposed to be some gishy sword-mage thing, despite that not being its actual identity except in that one MMO with wonky job design, doesn't make it so. RDM's always been about having -spell variety- at the cost of reduced raw spell power and charges, with auto-attacks as something the RDM can do between casts, though not with as great effectiveness as actual melee attackers.

Then, once FF5 hit, the 'turret' identity became solidified, with chainspell being the big thing it eventually brings to the table.

That's why RDM's identity is based around chainspell. Because chainspell's been what it's been about since FF5.

I'm not sure what classic FF games you've played as RDM was THE original FF gish. In my opinion, giving RDM a magic ranged DPS was a huge mistake. Should've always been magic melee DPS. And no, in an offline game in FF5 where you can "subjob" class abilities, dualcast can be used with any kind of magic, even the Mystic Knight swordmagic. It doesn't make casting magic the defining feature. Anyhow, anything that gives FFXIV RDM more positive melee output is a plus in my book.

[Hikelos]

Should've always been magic melee DPS.

XIV's Red Mage is based primarily around FFTA's from what I can tell. In TA it's an extremely powerful toolbox of every spell in the game + melee abilities from Fencer.
What you're talking about is clearly Mystic/Rune Knight, and I don't think we're ever getting that as it is too similar to Dark Knight aesthetically.
You might be happier with the new job coming.

As for predictions: At this point I've resigned myself to the resbot role and the limitations that come with it, and all I really want is for Embolden to either be removed or to apply to all damage types.
Embolden is the strongest raid buff in the game and accounts for around 10% of a RDM's contribution to damage, to know that 1/4th of that is just gone for every other caster in the party feels absolutely terrible. To know that it doesn't really work well with DRK and PLD, is frustrating. To join a raid or roulette and have no other Job who can make use of Embolden makes you feel like you picked the wrong job.
I had to switch off of it because one static member had been wanting to play BLM for a long time and there was no reason to handicap ourselves with a RDM.
Embolden as it exists today is an artifact of Stormblood, where the devs were experimenting with having a Physical Comp with SAM as the diamond tip and a Magic comp with BLM.
This never really came to be, because of all the mid-way jobs between full support and full damage taking center stage, like NIN, DRG, BRD and MNK.
I couldn't believe it was still there unchanged when ShB released, and can't believe it's still there right now, several patches later.

My other wish is for Verraise to be either crippled and limited, or removed entirely.
It's not part of the flavour of the job whatsoever, it's categorically against its lore as a Low-Aether spending mage, and it cripples its damage output ,which is kept med-low or otherwise it would be the best job by a staggering margin.
The worst part of this trade-off is that while Verraise is ridiculously overpowered in casual content, it is almost worthless in high-end content.
Whether it is useful at all depends on:
1) Do your healers have Swiftcast ready?
2) Will the raise be fast enough and allow the dead person to take their place in the next mechanic, or will it be too late?
The farther you go through Savage, the smaller the number of situations where the answer to #2 is a "yes".
So you essentially take the Res-Tax on your damage without being able to use the Res.

There's a million different ways they could go about fixing Verraise and making RDM a bit more competitive as a DPS instead of "The job you pick to prog and then abandon".
For example, make Verraise afflict you with Weakness, or make it cost 50% of your MP, or make it cost 50/50 Mana, etc.
As it is right now, it's paradoxically too good and too useless at the same time, depending on the content you're facing.

[Chasingstars]

There's a million different ways they could go about fixing Verraise and making RDM a bit more competitive as a DPS instead of "The job you pick to prog and then abandon".
For example, make Verraise afflict you with Weakness, or make it cost 50% of your MP, or make it cost 50/50 Mana, etc.
As it is right now, it's paradoxically too good and too useless at the same time, depending on the content you're facing.

However if you have a red mage, that means roulette content is done easier and more reliably. As long as a red mage is alive and has mana, even if both healers died, your not gonna have to reset immediately (Jolt II / Vercure -> Verraise). Meanwhile sure a samurai can have a higher damage, but if both healers die and the boss is nowhere close to dead, you have to go yeet yourself off the platform as there is technically nothing you can do to salvage the situation. And I speak this as a dancer and red mage who experienced both ends while doing normal roulette raid stuff that is from stormblood or shadowbringers. Like yea, having a static go through savage content is different from normal, but there is a level of pain where your dying on normal Eden Fulmination (Ramuh) for at least eight times until the healers have successfully not died to one of his mechanics.

[NYCLouisGamer]

My other wish is for Verraise to be either crippled and limited, or removed entirely.

Why would anybody want to bring a Red Mage without their unique utility of Verraise? Every job brings something special to the table, even if that "utility" is only high DPS.

Also, RDM is fun to use in that it has one of the best designed battle/rotation systems that I have ever seen.

Removing Verraise would require a massive DPS boost and make RDM a BLM clone.

P.S. I totally agree about Embolden. If that ability were fixed and a cool visual effect added to players under its effects, we could then see about buffing DPS & making Verraise less unbalanced (op in prog and underpowered afterwards).