6.0 Red Mage speculation

[Jirah]

Finally leveled this stupid thing to 80 on my alt, surprised people aren’t banging on about it having really boring support.

If your team is competent, all you have left in your support kit is Embolden which has been well documented be wonky. While other support jobs like Bard and Dancer don’t have reses, but they still have buffs to use even if the party is decent like Devilment and Natures Minne for offense and defensive properties

If your not gonna make the job more layered at least give it some more support options like Vershell, Vermedica, or Vertemper for offense. Or just tune up Embolden abit

[Grimoire-M]

Fixing Embolden has been a common suggestion for awhile now. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t happen eventually.

I still want Chainspell though. Basically the old Rapidfire for six spells, but with reduced damage to compensate for allowing you to spam VerAero/Thunder and burst your mana generation.

[Jirah]

Fixing Embolden has been a common suggestion for awhile now. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t happen eventually.

I still want Chainspell though. Basically the old Rapidfire for six spells, but with reduced damage to compensate for allowing you to spam VerAero/Thunder and burst your mana generation.

so like Delirium but not trash since RDM has two spell gauges that need to be equal? Actually sounds like a fine idea if implemented correctly but does RDM really need it would it benefit its kit? Hard cast cycle, Manapilation cycle and Chaincast/Chainspell cycle

[Random0]

I still want Chainspell though. Basically the old Rapidfire for six spells, but with reduced damage to compensate for allowing you to spam VerAero/Thunder and burst your mana generation.

When you think about it, this is sort of what's happening during Vermillion Scourge. The RDM forms these massive magic circles then rapidly fires 14 (I think?) spells (Jolts? They make a similar sound to Jolt...) into them to make the blinding, raid-wiping boom.

[Gruntler]

Finally leveled this stupid thing to 80 on my alt, surprised people aren’t banging on about it having really boring support.

If your team is competent, all you have left in your support kit is Embolden which has been well documented be wonky. While other support jobs like Bard and Dancer don’t have reses, but they still have buffs to use even if the party is decent like Devilment and Natures Minne for offense and defensive properties

If your not gonna make the job more layered at least give it some more support options like Vershell, Vermedica, or Vertemper for offense. Or just tune up Embolden abit

I dunno if you're new around here, but they don't generally balance jobs around speedrunning in prog-based games.

The only content where 'if your team is competent' matters is savage, and Red Mage is currently beastly in prog in savage. If you're clearing you're clearing and they won't balance the job around clearing faster.

Also, the last thing Red Mage wants is to be balanced like Bard. Do you miss 5.0 RDM that much?

[Duelle]

Fixing Embolden has been a common suggestion for awhile now. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t happen eventually.

I take it by "fix" you mean "make it affect all damage types".

Depending on who you ask, Embolden doesn't really need fixing. I've seen arguments that it's a ridiculously powerful buff as is, and making it affect non-physical DPS in addition to physical DPS would make it too good for its own...good. I'm sort of in the middle on that one. On the one hand, I'm sure it'll feel more useful in magic heavy comps. On the other, it might(?) become highly sought after like Trick Attack and technically Battle Litany. Could go either way, I think.

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Y'know. That thing that happens every expansion. The one where healers are up to Rank IV+ of their DoTs and attack spells, all tanks/melee have an AoE combo, and all DPS gain new abilities for their main rotations that uh, checking my notes here, don't regularly cost potency from elsewhere in the kit unless the job ends up jumping ahead of all other DPS and warrants direct nerfs?

Nice try, but that's not the same as making the finisher phase of a design happen more often.

As for your other attempt at a point, that the game has to show character growth in some way is a given. This is why jobs get new abilities and upgrades. That said, it's one thing when new abilities add mechanics (PLD with Sword Oath stacks), show the aforementioned growth (Edge of Shadow replacing Edge of Darkness), or expand on something that existed (pre-revamp Abandon and Fel Cleave). It's another when you're messing with the payoff phase of a job that is designed around build & spend phases.

In the context of resource generation, it'd be a different story if RDM had been designed to spend resources piecemeal instead of in large chunks, because then the job would be able to see a benefit from greater resource generation without running into the problem I've mentioned (granted, you might instead get something akin to SAM+Shinten where you have to be really conscious of when to resource dump, and I don't know how that would be received).

If your concern is that the damage of our combo will be reduced relative to everything else, unless the only advancements the devs choose to add are either another finisher a la Scorch or traits that buff the damage of our combo directly, that's literally going to happen anyway.

Simplest way I can put it is that increasing the frequency of the melee combo would be like making Midare Setsugekka permanently usable at 1 Sen or making a single Mirage Dive grant full Gaze of the First Brood. Like the melee combo, those are all balanced around taking time to get access to them by generating resources or waiting a specified amount of time. And like the melee combo, issues are likely to arise if you make the aforementioned changes.

... and you're trying to argue about "power creep" when you're not even optimizing just for the sake of your aesthetic?

Considering the general strategy for encounters involves standing directly behind the mob and moving only to deal with mechanics, this isn't much of an argument. But nice try, I guess...?

The only positive gameplay effect you listed hinges on it being an alternative to Displacement, which simply feeds my point that it would have no place if Displacement was unlinked from our damage or could be controlled on its own.

I did mention that if something were done to Displacement, Engagement would need a redesign or replacement. As I said, that hinges on something being done about Displacement, which I find unlikely.

you're not addressing the question of why it's relevant that the skill be restricted to melee range in the first place

What I suggested is a sword swing. Sword swings are restricted to melee because swords have a limited range. That's sort of how they work. And despite rumors to the contrary, Red Mages use swords (FFXIV's version of the job tends to use them as props instead of weapons, but that's neither here nor there). Also, for being touted as a "melee and ranged hybrid" (Yoshida's words, not mine), there's a lot more ranged than there is melee. Even without a redesign of the job on the table, I'd aim to correct that where possible.

Displacement and Engagement have reasons built in - Displacement makes a gap when the combo is done, Engagement uses the cooldown when Displacing would be dangerous.

The fact something like Engagement was implemented in the first place indicates that making the gap opener a built-in part of the rotation was a stupid idea. If anything, Engagement's existence vindicates that viewpoint.

Oh goody, pseudo-positionals for us that we don't have some True North equivalent for.

You'd just have to unlearn to needlessly jump away from a mob, just like BRDs had to unlearn spamming Blunt Arrow and DRGs had to unlearn spamming Leg Sweep.

Now in your case, you mention melee Fleche has less damage and another mechanical benefit, but unless that benefit comes out to a net damage increase in some tangible way -- a buff, a DoT, whatever, bearing in mind it already has a short cooldown so those would essentially be used on cooldown anyway -- it will be avoided under most circumstances, and in fact will probably do exactly the opposite of what you've been pushing for by encouraging people to spend less time in melee so as not to accidentally trade damage.

I never specified the mechanic, though because I like tying melee with magic, I'd probably opt to increase damage of the next spell cast, or proc an additional spell hit on the target when struck by the next spell to make up the difference (the latter would probably be better since the extra hit would not be dependent on whether you're casting Jolt II or Verstone/Verfire).

I am and have been pretty sure the job you're looking for is Mystic Knight, and has been.

Actually, no. Mystic Knight would be something along the lines of this, which, as I've said before, is a completely separate beast from RDM.

[Seraphor]

Red Mage needs to get a Rescue skill in 6.0, that would be dope.

Vershell would be cool too though.

In all seriousness, I would like some utility that spend Black or White mana on their own.
We have Reprise as a filler skill that spends both mana's but nothing to re-offset them if you've already hit 100. Also, it would serve as a valid cost-benefit for some added utility without nerfing raw numbers.

I would suggest:
Vercure: Costs 7 White Mana.
Verward: Bestows a 300 potency shield to target. Costs 7 Black Mana.

[Archwizard]

And despite rumors to the contrary, Red Mages use swords (FFXIV's version of the job tends to use them as props instead of weapons, but that's neither here nor there). Also, for being touted as a "melee and ranged hybrid" (Yoshida's words, not mine), there's a lot more ranged than there is melee. Even without a redesign of the job on the table, I'd aim to correct that where possible.

This was the point where I stopped reading your post. It's all a bunch of grasping at straws to circle back around to the same conclusion you've already made despite all practicality, and substituting in your reality in the most entitled voice to vindicate your wish fulfillment.

For what it's worth, I do think you have some interesting design ideas, but you're far, far too pushy about how the devs should have done things your way from your lofty armchair, and it costs you whatever credibility you might have built up for them.

The devs have picked a direction for the job already, evidently it doesn't match yours.

[Katie_Kitty]

Fix embolden please.

[M1551NGN0]

Eh, I don't know what to expect in 6.0, including whatever level 90 spell we're going to get. I pretty much got what I wanted in Scorch: (Quoting myself in the Shadowbringers wishlist)

I would like a trait similar to Lance Mastery. Pop a Verflare after a Verholy, and vice-versa.

And some AoE finishers after three Enchanted Moulinets.

Still maybe a finisher after the Enchanted Moulinets.

EDIT: Buff Engagement potency to 200, please and thank you.