6.0 WAR adjustments I'd like to see

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Bringing back Berserk and removing the Direct Hit effect would just make Warriors damage very swingy again as the Warrior's damage would once again be heavily determined by how much RNG favored the Warrior.

The problem you are describing is actually better solved by making the direct hit stat have no effect on tank damage.

I mean every tanks dmg is very "swingy" at the moment, I don't see why Warrior should be an exception to the rule anymore. Also don't see the need to remove Direct Hit from tanks, personally.

But in the event DH was to be removed from tanks, this should also extend to healers, if the devs choose to go down this route of locking stats, outside of tenacity and piety.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I mean every tanks dmg is very "swingy" at the moment, I don't see why Warrior should be an exception to the rule anymore.

All the other tanks have far less "spiky" rotations where failing to get a direct hit, crit or direct crit on even the biggest hits will not influence their damage significantly. Due to so much of WAR's damage originating from Fell Cleave and Inner Chaos failure to get even a direct hit on one is the equivalent of missing 1 or more normal gcds each time.

Also don't see the need to remove Direct Hit from tanks, personally.

With Post-3.5 gear, Direct Hit is only gained from melds. The availability to tanks/healers is completely the result of the slap-dash way they replaced Accuracy with Direct Hit.

But in the event DH was to be removed from tanks, this should also extend to healers, if the devs choose to go down this route of locking stats, outside of tenacity and piety.

Which is really what should have happened back when Direct Hit and Tenacity were introduced back in 4.0.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

All the other tanks have far less "spiky" rotations where failing to get a direct hit, crit or direct crit on even the biggest hits will not influence their damage significantly. Due to so much of WAR's damage originating from Fell Cleave and Inner Chaos failure to get even a direct hit on one is the equivalent of missing 1 or more normal gcds each time.

Right, except Confiteor literally just about doubles in damage when it crit DH's compared to a standard hit, this can be significant to make or break a parse over the course of a fight. What about DRK in Delirium, which has an identical burst to WAR in terms of button presses where it's burst is "swingy" due to random rng, so again can't see why WAR has to be an exception anymore.

With Post-3.5 gear, Direct Hit is only gained from melds. The availability to tanks/healers is completely the result of the slap-dash way they replaced Accuracy with Direct Hit.

I do understand how it was implemented, I have been playing since HW. But I was more or less amending your statement to include healers, not just tanks, if that route is taken, but I highly doubt the devs will bother, it's more work than worth.

Which is really what should have happened back when Direct Hit and Tenacity were introduced back in 4.0.

Again, more work than needed really, it means devs would have to go back and change every piece of fending and healing gear to exclude DH.

[Kabooa]

Again, more work than needed really, it means devs would have to go back and change every piece of fending and healing gear to exclude DH.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't just a database statement.

[Absurdity]

Right, except Confiteor literally just about doubles in damage when it crit DH's compared to a standard hit, this can be significant to make or break a parse over the course of a fight. What about DRK in Delirium, which has an identical burst to WAR in terms of button presses where it's burst is "swingy" due to random rng, so again can't see why WAR has to be an exception anymore.

WAR's damage is swingy, but not in the same way that the other tanks are. Since most of a warriors dps relies so heavily on Inner Release it becomes extremely dependent on killtime. Sure, one direct crit more or less in a fight doesn't make too much of a difference but killing the boss anywhere between 45-0 seconds before IR is back up means your dps is significantly lower than if you ended a fight right after it.

The other tanks simply suffer in a different way, since their dps is more spread out they're more reliant on rng and less on where exactly in your rotation the boss dies.

and clarify what tenacity is supposed to be?

Clarifying what tenacity is supposed to be, beyond what it's description already tells you, would require them to publicly show stat intervals, which they obviously won't do. If you take a quick look at the stat intervals on Akhmorning for example you'll quickly see that tenacity is basically a dump stat for 99% of all content.

It has some limited use in ultimates but for everything else you basically only take tenacity because there's nothing better available. The rate at which it increases your passive mitigation and flat % damage increase is so atrocious compared to the other substats that there is no point in investing heavily into it, it simply exists on gear that you would've used anyway for different reasons.

[Spartan_Aoues]

Clarifying what tenacity is supposed to be, beyond what it's description already tells you, would require them to publicly show stat intervals, which they obviously won't do. If you take a quick look at the stat intervals on Akhmorning for example you'll quickly see that tenacity is basically a dump stat for 99% of all content.

It has some limited use in ultimates but for everything else you basically only take tenacity because there's nothing better available. The rate at which it increases your passive mitigation and flat % damage increase is so atrocious compared to the other substats that there is no point in investing heavily into it, it simply exists on gear that you would've used anyway for different reasons.

During the process of learning about tanks, and tanking a common theme was that you never slot tenacity, because it doesn't give much mid, and damage isn't comparable to something like dit,det,or crt. It is usually at the bottom of the recommended lists and I don't remember the last time I've seen it melded at all on the tank leader boards.

Imagine a tank specific stat that tanks actively avoid, I think that is not good game design.

On that note I would like to see more transparency into what each stat actually gives you, like actual formulas, or "stat intervals" if I understand that term right. I want them to trust us as players, and let us theory craft to our hearts content.

[Absurdity]

Imagine a tank specific stat that tanks actively avoid, I think that is not good game design.

On that note I would like to see more transparency into what each stat actually gives you, like actual formulas, or "stat intervals" if I understand that term right. I want them to trust us as players, and let us theory craft to our hearts content.

Oh I'm certainly not disagreeing with that, Tenacity isn't a well designed stat. Even if it sometimes finds usage in early savage/ultimate prog the simple fact that you don't need more mitigation to survive a fight means that it is completely inferior to all of the more "offensive" substats.


As for more transparency, I wouldn't get my hopes up. The game doesn't even tell you what your actual critical strike chance or % damage increase from Determination is. For whatever reason players have to use 3rd party sites to know that 3713 crit gives you a 25.2% chance to land a crit, a critical damage modifier of 160.2% and that 3094 Determination give you a 10.8% damage increase.

I'm honestly not sure why SE is utterly against giving players important information on their character's power, maybe some misguided notion that being more informed would lead to toxicity?

[Sqwall]

I'm honestly not sure why SE is utterly against giving players important information on their character's power, maybe some misguided notion that being more informed would lead to toxicity?

I believe you have just answered your question. However, the toxicity is still there. I still have to meld Direct Hit as it's what the end game expects you to have melded, and if you don't? Then the community of the end game that are looking at your stats and telling you what to meld anyway. SE want's to believe that this doesn't happen if they don't give the exact details of your characters stats, and I also don't understand BiS argument anyway. I mean if the numbers are superfluous then why the huge emphasis? I have stacked CRIT on my monk and yes I crit often, but everyone want's DH or Determination when I try to get in savage with my monk. It makes no sense. Maybe monk is a bad example when comparing melds since monk is so RNG heavy.

Anyways! I'm in the camp meld what you want since this game doesn't really have build diversity anyway. Each job get's the job done mentality works to a point until each job just no longer feels unique.

[Spartan_Aoues]

Oh I'm certainly not disagreeing with that, Tenacity isn't a well designed stat. Even if it sometimes finds usage in early savage/ultimate prog the simple fact that you don't need more mitigation to survive a fight means that it is completely inferior to all of the more "offensive" substats.


As for more transparency, I wouldn't get my hopes up. The game doesn't even tell you what your actual critical strike chance or % damage increase from Determination is. For whatever reason players have to use 3rd party sites to know that 3713 crit gives you a 25.2% chance to land a crit, a critical damage modifier of 160.2% and that 3094 Determination give you a 10.8% damage increase.

I'm honestly not sure why SE is utterly against giving players important information on their character's power, maybe some misguided notion that being more informed would lead to toxicity?

The reason i'm in these forums is not only to get my frustrations off my chest. But to make clear, reasonable and persuasive arguments for game design and philosophy that i think will improve the game in the long run. That hinges on the belief that square actually reads the forums, and i'm not just shouting into the void. If i wanted that i'd play wow. Square has gone through alot of iteration good and bad, that stems from their understanding of their player base, so I have faith that they can be persuaded. Trust me, as soon as i feel that square doesn't listen or is disconnected from the player base i will be the first one to leave.

If we can show square that we want more transparency, options and unique classes, i think they will work for us and get it done.

[ForteNightshade]

Again, more work than needed really, it means devs would have to go back and change every piece of fending and healing gear to exclude DH.

An easy solution is simply adjust the scaling. Make it so tanks get a significant enough buff that Tenacity beats Direct Hit for only them. Otherwise, yes, go back and change Fending pieces from Heavensward and ARR to not have Direct Hit. It seems silly we have a stat literally designed for tanks and they consider it "nothing else's better" option. Even for Ultimate.