SUGGESTION: Turn Bluemage into a regular job - Limited Job>Advanced Job (An Approach)

[TeraTyrantShadic]

Stereotypically most of blue mage is damage and or other means of incapacitating the foe, in the history of blue mage spells most did something offensive "stereotypically"

Allow me to correct you on that, "Blue Mages focus on Blue Magic, a special subset of magic that uses attacks otherwise exclusive to enemies. Blue Mages often have a wide range of usefulness due to the varied spells they gain." There are all kinds of spells they learn from the weakest to the strongest but the main key point of Blue Mage is the usefulness in a variety of situation meaning it is adaptable. 'True Blue Mage' can be easily solved as Blue Mage follow 2 core identities. They learn from monster spells and will use these spells depending on the situation and they are Versatile including equipment wise (However this cannot be applied to FFXIV since each class has its own specific weapon and share the same gear set at end game but they have their own relic armor). There is nothing about it being overpowered is a requirement. As for the versatility I'll get more onto that later in the post.

Although.. I still think that blue mage would have made a great candidate for tank, assuming it was built that was from the ground up, the current blue tank that we have in game is not what I mean lol (as the hyper forced trinity, overly balanced, undertuned, tank blue mage is, I wouldn't call as nearly as exciting as playing an actual tank job; although, healer blue is a bit more exciting since you get a lot more damage spells lol, unlike our actual healer jobs currently XD).

I would agree, however I just think they could do more than just tanking. Granted what we have right now isn't the best option for it to be able to tank but it has a high DPS output, maybe in 5.4 we'll get more for tanking and healing. If this is the case about preventing Blue Mage from abusing the role system there is already a solution for that. Leaving Aetherial Mimicry at level 60, forcing the Blue Mages to be DPS role in earlier levels then at Level 60. It is foolproof had they not made it level by letting it get carried by friends, because now people can simply obtain it and not even have the necessary skills to fully utilize Aetherial mimicry or even the role.

But in terms of 'too much?' and premades vs DF I don't think you have to undertune blue- especially if you made limited (which I think is important, to not remove the limited side) and normal a flip of the job stone, then you might have a few skills change a bit depending on which side you're using, in this way you could make aetherial mimicry a different spell based on limited or normal and just from that the rest of the issues are gone (a concept that might sound strange until you consider every combat job in this game besides blue mage does this when you enter PvP, this is something SE has done already in a sense).

Honestly it is better off as a Normal Job with some of the functionalities from the Limited Job. What they have right now is a great foundation for a Blue Mage to become a normal job namely because of the way you can pick and choose skills. In previous FF games we could only have a set of skills and we are stuck with all of them throughout and that is the point of it in a single player game to be like a collectible and the need for swapping them out is not necessary. However in FFXI they introduce Blue Mage in a MMO setting and it worked, they are overpowered but so is every other class with the right gear set, since that game solely relies on you having that BiS for your job. If what could be done in FFXI works then FFXIV just need to take inspiration from it and in this case they did (excluding the level requirement for spells where you have to be at a certain level to use a specific Blue Mage spell and the point limit system where each spell costs different amount of point but overall there is 20 Spells Slots and 80 points is the limit).

I kind of hope mimicry as a strict trinity spell goes away, and reintroduce the concepts through kit building instead

I... STRONGLY DISAGREE! Mainly because we now live in a time where everyone has a job in real life and I'll explain later. We can do something like Star Wars the Old Republic did and have Flashpoint where no matter what the roles are, all roles are neutral and the way to heal is through interacting with a glowing blue tank in a boss fight or when out of combat channel your heals. We can do the same with FFXIV except with potions, but that means people are now forced to pick up Alchemist and buy or craft HQ potions. We can still go with the interacting with the environment route, but I doubt some people will actually go and interact with it just so they can try and keep their DPS high and that only applies to dungeons. What about raids and trials? Ones specifically using Tanks and Healers Limit Breaks. There is a reason why Modern MMOs have the trinity role and that is because Duty Finder or similar systems like it even before duty finder are the main reason for the roles to easily identify who is playing what job. It is a major time saver, back then you had to shout for a group invite (In other MMOs not FFXIV) for just about anything including farming dungeons just to level and sometimes even when you shout literally right after they say it they reply 'sorry but spot is taken'. Hence why we MMOs nowadays have the Duty Finder these days everyone gets a slot. As for kit building, why not both. You can still have the kit building and the roles at the same time. It works with some other MMOs so you can apply it to FFXIV. However FFXIV isn’t about kit building, if you’re referring to FFXI then only Puppetmaster, Blue Mage are building their own Mod kit and Spell kit respectively. The other kit building is gear and in FFXI gear gives additional bonuses with different variety of stats being used. It may not work in FFXIV mainly because of the way we have gear now. We are doing BiS for Substats and the main stats materia are now useless even elemental materia. Overall it is better to keep the trinity as is and for any future content of sorts since it allows a much easier and convenient time for people to queue for certain activities. Don’t force others to use Party Finder if they don’t want to, in which SE tried doing so with Blue Mage. It is better if Blue Mage has both option than 1.

[Shougun]

While the BLU history lesson is "mostly" accurate, its still kind of misleading. But thats not really important to bring up imo, unless we're in a debate on "What does it truly mean to be a True Blue Mage?". (Which I find pointless 99% of the time to talk about, but ill mention it in the next bit anyways)

Oh yeah I wasn't going for full depth, I mean I see two comments on this now that read the same so I might have misunderstood the most common understanding of stereotypically but when I hear it.. I assume "vaguely speaking". So.. mostly true is like "yeah that's what I was going for!" lol.

The main reason I bothered to go stereotypically was just to say if we were searching for roles I don't think blue has to be "all", in a general sense I think blue is just a really funky damage support. I know the accuracy is a crappy sort of mostly true sense (' stereotype ').

Like when you talk about a country stereotypically, it's kind of true but you know not really always :P. It was just a macro discussion of blue mage's role. I was only talking that I think it would have been fine if blue mage was just a damage support, well like it was fine in FFXI that he was just damage.

People are allowed to want more from him, to expand certain concepts or whatever, but "stereotypically" he's a sort of damage support. "vaguely speaking" :P.

I wanted to dispell the strict requirements people usually put on blue, well except learning from monsters and using monster magic.. that's pretty much required. If blue does those two things then the rest of it is really kind of whatever... and it's a blue mage (even if I or others don't.. or do.. like it).

I absolutely agree. 2.0-3.0 pretty much gave tanks more spamable AoE options than most DPS, and even more easy to spam in 4.0 (not all dps, as BLM was truly able to infinitely spam AoE) and FF5 BLU was one of the few FF jobs that had a higher number of AoEs than single target options. (With SMN being another notable AoE job) I know this means nothing to SE, as 2.0 SMN wasnt amazing at AoE, but BLM, the single target nuker was the AoE DPS... But from a design standpoint, trying to keep job flavor, imo, it made sense to put the AoE job as a tank.
Next was how BLUs spells in FF5 used a variety of stats, but the number of spells which were determined by HP were higher than the number of spells determined by another stat. Followed by how BLUs had to have enough survival in which to take the hit and survive, in order to learn the spell. (So far all 3 of these reasons dont apply to every version of BLU) They also wore better armor than most back row jobs, putting them on par with most front row DPS, who could take the extra damage multiplier from being in the front row. (This isnt actually intended to be part of its "identity", but a balance issue. In future games, BLU has been seen being "back row only" as well) Of course buff spells/self heals helped them survive in the front row as well (and the other similar job RDM) But as you mentioned in the history of BLU, while they had more offensive options, they still had plenty of strong jack of all trades options (which they didnt need different elemental versions of heals, like they would need for nukes, so a singular heal option was fine) This leads into the argument of which role can actively fit all of these features reasonably? Using 2.0 WAR as an example, it does everything that a BLU could do. It can use heals, buff, debuff, dot, AoE (both cone, and circular). And could do so, w/o hindering their performance, unlike SMN/RDM who have to actively hinder their DPS to use raise/cures. So I agree, Tank seemed perfect. (Not to mention FFTAs BLU, which had "Damage MP" making it a far superior version to The Blackest Night, and in turn making BLUs unkillable in that game.)

Naturally I agree, supporting argument to why Blue would have been a decent concept as built for tank.

Honestly, youre following text is practically the same as to what everyone suggests, and functionally just a difference in name from what I said. I know the details can be different on a technical level, but if the outcomes is so similar, we might as well say its the same thing. (Not to say either of us is more correct in the way to deal with this hypothetical. Im mostly just saying we're already on the same boat.)

Does it count that I was one of the first to suggest the concept not only in the beginning release of FFXIV but also near ARR's beta? At the time of ARR's beta to be honest I didn't say flipping job stone, that's something that come more recently, but I did suggest the job was both a side content and a normal job (in response to Yoshida saying he wants it to be a mini game toy box like content). This was back when there were like three people talking about blue mage ... XD.

Ive felt slightly similar as well, though maybe not on the exact details. (But another example would have been giving BLM "Death" like in other FFs, so BLU wasnt technically the only one. Along with other oldschool "potent" skills to their respective jobs, but in the same way, have limited uses, and mostly just for fun. (Rather than a limited "job", have "Limited skills" in a manner similar to "Role skills", where the skills on the list dont always work in instanced group content, or in limited amounts)

Yeah of course everyone will create something different but blue mage's skills, many of the weird ones even, have some sort of parallel to other jobs, and some of those weird skills also could feasibly exist in this game as a balanced concept so long as you tweak some aspects... that we both agree on, I bet, that they've already tweaked in some ways (like our doom hardly works on most important targets anyways! if anything it would be nice if doom did something to the targets it normally failed on.. cause failing and missing is kind of "oof" experience).

agreed.

The rest of this... I would agree about the complexity of making a build, if this was a game made just for you, me, and others like us. But all things considered, I think a more simplistic version would be better in the long run. I'd say you should still make a build, but I'd keep it easier to understand "what works with what" at an initial glance, w/o needing to test every combination. I still think spells should just be as simple as "Tank" "Healer" and "DPS" types. Stacking them is good. Using the UI to show a "bar" filling up when you stack same role type spells. The higher the bar goes, the better your performance will be in that role. Going half DPS and half tank, will show the bar barely go up, which makes it obvious you're going to have your performance hindered. (I measured hindrance based on cast time. Using Fire4 as an example, it takes longer to cast fire4, than the GCD. So you want to shorten the cast time. A BLU would want the bar filled, as the more its filled, the lower your cast time is, which this is a DPS increase. Also, if you lower it past the GCD, you can then safely weave in oGCDs w/o clipping. If you dont lower it enough, you still clip, but maybe your supportive options can help make up for the clipping.)

No no.. it's just made for all thirteen of us! There's literally dozens of us! (To be fair there are a lot more, so long as you simply discuss people who were disgruntled in the current version and not which version people would like most).

IF there is a normal side to blue mage I am far less inclined to believe that limited needs to be so inventive, I just think it had a wonderful potential to give people a sort of mind melting strategy complex (like when you've most legendries and sets unlocked in diablo 3 and you're trying to figure out where to stick your ring of grandeur lol). They could leave limited exactly the way it is now in design concepts, if there was a normal, and I'd be happy. Of course I'd love to have mind melty bit too, personally, but eh.. if my baby turns normal okay whatever lol.

So long as blue mage becomes normal, or if it can't be normal that it gains a much higher level of useful spells and interactivity (that doesn't fail on most content due to boss immunity):


Or if they add a transformation job that is either normal or 'actually' primarily solo (and useful), in which case I shut up because I feel like I am the only one asking for that and so I just need to be thankful lol. But if they add it as more designed for PF exclusive / limited use... I'ma be soul crestfallen x2 to this limited concept lol. Oooof. Like if they added big airship content that acts as a decent compromise to housing I'd probably go dark on the housing subject.

[Shougun]

Allow me to correct you on that, "Blue Mages focus on Blue Magic, a special subset of magic that uses attacks otherwise exclusive to enemies. Blue Mages often have a wide range of usefulness due to the varied spells they gain." There are all kinds of spells they learn from the weakest to the strongest but the main key point of Blue Mage is the usefulness in a variety of situation meaning it is adaptable. 'True Blue Mage' can be easily solved as Blue Mage follow 2 core identities. They learn from monster spells and will use these spells depending on the situation and they are Versatile including equipment wise (However this cannot be applied to FFXIV since each class has its own specific weapon and share the same gear set at end game but they have their own relic armor). There is nothing about it being overpowered is a requirement. As for the versatility I'll get more onto that later in the post.

I think you missed my point, although MaraD I think also did too so I think it's more my fault then. . . When the whole world is wrong, most likely not the whole world XD. I must have not explained something as I intended. I was saying in a general sense of role blue mage is not a main tank or a main healer (although he can do those things "sort of"), blue mage mainly has abilities that deal with the enemy either through debuffs or through damage, and then happens to have some support on the side (like many jobs).

I just went through three different versions of blue mage (FFV, FFIX, FFX) and the primary actions were damage and debuffs. With some support skills.

In this I was saying stereotypically blue mage is damage and support mage, like if you made a graphic that is blue mage's actions spread into a pie chart (out of 100%) then most of the % is in damage and debuffs and then the remaining 33% is party support (vanish, white wind, etc).

If you're trying to boil blue mage down into it's most simple essence then of course "uses monster magic that it learned" is going to be the gold ticket (with some diversity on actions too, if it's all one type of skill then you've missed the fun in blue certainly I agree).

Doesn't mean there isn't freedom to mix it up, like making Dark Knight a tank or DD, blue mage a tank or DD, just that I do think there is a stereotypical "role" for blue mage and isn't really all three all at once- he "kind of" has a vague focus towards damage, disruption, and a bit of support. Not that you have to follow that. . So long as something is cool people tend to be okay with change. Like I bet if SE made FFXIV's summoner a tank that was akin to some of the actions in FFXVI's trailer that people might be confused but generally far more accepting than what happened in ARR. Reminds me of what ADVSS said where they felt the we've Paladin right now is a bit hyper magical compared to some versions of other Paladins but eh it's cool, powerful and fun to play (particularly in the non-stereotypical way, like our Paladin doesn't use the standard white magic, he's got his own special stuff).

Or in other weird words lol- If blue mage had instruments for each sort of action it did, and they cast all their spells at once, the most noise would come from damage, debuffs, and other offensive skills, with a back up chorus on support. He doesn't wear heavy armor or have loads of personally tanking skills, like Paladin has cover which makes him 'lord' of tanking for the FF series as a whole, so I find the tanking side of blue light, and the healing side is limited to some situation benefits. Then of course we note that other jobs in the series have had multi-role approaches too, so it's not crazy for a job to have a focus and then some side stuff. Like most FF healers later in the game can slap some decent damage, or hilariously mess up an encounter with reflect (some bosses can absolutely be ruined by casting reflect on the boss, free cures for me thanks haha), or occasionally certain situations allow them to nuke an undead lol.

That said I'm fine you're into the most varied idealization of blue mage, just wanted to say he does have an instrument set that makes the most noise most consistently across the FF series and it tends to be "damage, debuffs, support". I see nothing wrong wanting that to spread into full roles, especially as limited (seems kind of . . .challenging as normal but if they make it work that'd be kind of neat lol), but just that he has a general noise to him if you picture him making noise XD *shakes blue mage*.

Other job that sort of does that is Summoner and Red Mage, with also their damage, debuffs, and support, (or you might group support and debuffs into one unit and say utility), naturally one might argue all the jobs to some extent especially as they level (like many jobs have a broken mechanic, like gil toss or reflect), but generally seems these three have a diverse partnership in the utility and damage sphere. Of course I'd say more notable for blue and summoner is their pacing tends to be different. Like summoner tends to be pretty cool early to mid game but the fall off due to scaling can happen sometimes, and blue mage comes and goes in waves, while say a black, white or other standard job is far more consistent.

I would agree, however I just think they could do more than just tanking. Granted what we have right now isn't the best option for it to be able to tank but it has a high DPS output, maybe in 5.4 we'll get more for tanking and healing. If this is the case about preventing Blue Mage from abusing the role system there is already a solution for that. Leaving Aetherial Mimicry at level 60, forcing the Blue Mages to be DPS role in earlier levels then at Level 60. It is foolproof had they not made it level by letting it get carried by friends, because now people can simply obtain it and not even have the necessary skills to fully utilize Aetherial mimicry or even the role.

Honestly it is better off as a Normal Job with some of the functionalities from the Limited Job. What they have right now is a great foundation for a Blue Mage to become a normal job namely because of the way you can pick and choose skills. In previous FF games we could only have a set of skills and we are stuck with all of them throughout and that is the point of it in a single player game to be like a collectible and the need for swapping them out is not necessary. However in FFXI they introduce Blue Mage in a MMO setting and it worked, they are overpowered but so is every other class with the right gear set, since that game solely relies on you having that BiS for your job. If what could be done in FFXI works then FFXIV just need to take inspiration from it and in this case they did (excluding the level requirement for spells where you have to be at a certain level to use a specific Blue Mage spell and the point limit system where each spell costs different amount of point but overall there is 20 Spells Slots and 80 points is the limit).

I... STRONGLY DISAGREE! Mainly because we now live in a time where everyone has a job in real life and I'll explain later. We can do something like Star Wars the Old Republic did and have Flashpoint where no matter what the roles are, all roles are neutral and the way to heal is through interacting with a glowing blue tank in a boss fight or when out of combat channel your heals. We can do the same with FFXIV except with potions, but that means people are now forced to pick up Alchemist and buy or craft HQ potions. We can still go with the interacting with the environment route, but I doubt some people will actually go and interact with it just so they can try and keep their DPS high and that only applies to dungeons. What about raids and trials? Ones specifically using Tanks and Healers Limit Breaks. There is a reason why Modern MMOs have the trinity role and that is because Duty Finder or similar systems like it even before duty finder are the main reason for the roles to easily identify who is playing what job. It is a major time saver, back then you had to shout for a group invite (In other MMOs not FFXIV) for just about anything including farming dungeons just to level and sometimes even when you shout literally right after they say it they reply 'sorry but spot is taken'. Hence why we MMOs nowadays have the Duty Finder these days everyone gets a slot. As for kit building, why not both. You can still have the kit building and the roles at the same time. It works with some other MMOs so you can apply it to FFXIV. However FFXIV isn’t about kit building, if you’re referring to FFXI then only Puppetmaster, Blue Mage are building their own Mod kit and Spell kit respectively. The other kit building is gear and in FFXI gear gives additional bonuses with different variety of stats being used. It may not work in FFXIV mainly because of the way we have gear now. We are doing BiS for Substats and the main stats materia are now useless even elemental materia. Overall it is better to keep the trinity as is and for any future content of sorts since it allows a much easier and convenient time for people to queue for certain activities. Don’t force others to use Party Finder if they don’t want to, in which SE tried doing so with Blue Mage. It is better if Blue Mage has both option than 1.

This would probably where we're both going to diverge the most on the hope for blue, not that I'm not interested in reading what you think or wouldn't be amused if they somehow made it work (three role one job all kit building......).. But I think making a balanced job, three different roles, mechanically fun, and that gets to pick from 120+ skills and play three different roles, is a tall, tall, order. I would add that I do agree that MANY of blue mage's current spells are not so unbalanced that they couldn't work in a DF setting each in their own right (some still are a bit bonkers, freezing something for 30 seconds nearly is a bit crazy...), but to give that customization across three roles seems a bit wewh lawd lol.

Also to be completely honest I am not impressed with blue mage's current mechanics, in terms of it's depth, flow, feel, or progression, and would likely be far more impressed if they just developed a kit besides (next to) limited and either left limited alone for PF or take a pass at the entire thing (for the purposes of spicing it up, less regard for PF balance). I believe I've read you mentioned polishing some of it with a gauge and such, so I'm assuming you're thinking there'd be some touch ups as well but I'm not sure by how much you're thinking. I have also read what you said about limited which appears not so much as removing it as much as just consuming all of limited into normal as such there is no distinction, correct me if I'm wrong, which would just take me back up to "tall order" but I would find it both wildly amusing and interesting if SE made that work somehow. I'm not really one to say things are impossible, just sounds extra hard mode lol. Personally don't mind limited sitting next to normal, as talked with MaraD as this way players could have pretty close to original spells with little regard to balance and then they can have as thematically and mechanically interesting as possible while still being balanced "normal" to work along side it. My bias is to making limited side a bit mind melty, where things combo and reverberate both explicitly and implicitly (as mentioned in some ability combo examples in the other post), and I see mimicry as damage to a high variety and causes forced role play style which I think is a shame to making free form builds. As well I find there are way too many spells that don't scream their useful on their own and neither useful in tandem. While impossible to do always the ideal goal, imo, would be every skill seems useful alone and then even more useful when pictured as a group- like as I say for D3 where you're not forced really into a specific role as much as getting to build whatever plays and combos interestingly to you.

I see mimicry as more of a way to handwave the not so interesting kit building and guide down specific mechanics they've made and to force players into specific sets of abilities as to create an image of organization and a "sense" of kit building (I say sense since I don't really see much in the way of options, given that they designed the job primarily around PF, which at this point I'm a hyper broken record but say unlike for example D3 or Hades where things weren't really designed with the idea it needed to be balanced to someone else and rather just balanced to yourself for maximum fun and thoughtful interplay). Of course with the idea I suggested where spells interweave would be far harder to balance for DF than using mimicry. Far. . . far. . harder. Like in Diablo 3 most kits can do normal content, an okay kit will take you to space, but a well made kit will take you to the end of time and back. You can't be doing that for normal group play XD.

I can see mimicry being important to you if you believe blue mage should be able to be "normal" for all three roles, in which case the rigidity it imposes is kind of important (not just kind of, but very). Since I don't see limited having to leave I kind of see it as a sad shackle that lowers creative input (like it would be nice my cure doesn't suck unless I turn on healer mode lol, to be clear I'm not suggesting mimicry doesn't offer power and so lots of people will HAVE to use it, just that I feel it's not the greatest thing for kit building or value of skills / diversity kit building), but.. I can shift my perspective to see where in your hope for blue it's a helpful tool. So I should rephrase, if they make it wild kit building and is still limited then I don't really think mimicry is that great, but if they make it a multi-role normal job I guess I see it being a bit important.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

Snip

You have looked through just 3 versions of Blue Mage that much I understand but there are over 6 versions of it (Not including the spinoffs) from the Final Fantasy series. Your generalization is more about the stereotypes and not the actual generalization. Yes most of the spells in these games are related to support and damage. However that is not Blue Mage in general. Blue Mage in general is a mage that practices Blue Magic and is versatile to the battle/situation.

What you have just mentioned is the stereotypical type of attacks it has majority of the time throughout the Final Fantasy Series, but that is just solely focusing on it as a DPS rather than the other two roles as well. Blue Mage is VERSATILE meaning it is fitting to almost every situation. This is an MMO so people are going to have expectations of it to fit all 3 roles. Especially when FFXI has successfully done it before. In FFXIV’s case it is doable, difficult but doable but they first need the right puzzle piece which is why I stress the fact that the class needs the Job Gauge. If it were to fit in, it needs one especially to balance it between roles to prevent powerful hybrids. Red Mage is one as they can DPS and Heal, however people tend to ignore Vercure as it can slow their DPS down. Which already prevents it at a mechanical level, with Blue Mage however the same can be applied but 2nd factor is needed to prevent the spam which is why a job gauge for it is a better solution.

I never said it was easy, besides it is doable. A tall order it may be, but it is very much doable with time and dedication from the development team but they rush it before 5.0 because they didn't have the solution before the next expansion.

I had a hunch (You can skip this sentence/part), why release a job half baked/done right before the next expansion and say it took you a year to make it. I kept wondering and speculated, maybe they were planning to bring it to 5.0 but didn’t have the time and resources necessary to allow it to come to fruition. Then when I heard 5.4 will be a new update for Blue Mage I thought maybe that was the case maybe they were planning on a full job for it but 5.0 wasn’t it’s time to shine. At this point with my assumption I can only speculate further.

They had a year to work on Blue Mage and yet there this is what we get, a broken mess. However when the 5.15 update for Blue Mage was released they added more emphasis on group play and roles with the new spells and the key spell Aetherial Mimicry. The reason why I say they should have the customization is mainly because we have yet to see the job gauge. Who knows maybe they'll add or not. Because most job gauges for mages (Except Summoner) are a build up type of gauge. If you lock the powerful skills behind such a gauge you then have forced the player to choose to either tank, heal or DPS properly. Look at Red mage, can’t do a full combo until you are 80+ in both white and black magic. Black Mages need to wait 30 seconds to get 1 Polyglot to even cast Xenoglossy. The same could be applied to all 3 roles. Healer already has proven it with the Faerie and Healing gauge, and Tank with Oath, Beast and Blood Gauge. It has been proven already in the game that the Build Up type gauge is most used universally in every job. Which is why it is doable for it to be applied for all 3 roles. If all 3 roles use it, then surely a job with all 3 roles can do the same as well.

What I have said about Limited is about the system itself. “Limited Job is just a copycat of the Normal Job System but with restrictions” It isn’t a tall order because If you just remove the restrictions on the Limited Job system. You’ll come to realize it is exactly the same system with just minor changes. If Blue Mage were turned into a normal job then integrating it wouldn’t be much of a difficulty as these are systems that categorizes jobs. They don’t provide content rather they are just like houses holding in furniture and its residents. With the residents being the Jobs and the furniture being the Content.

With the way they implemented Aetherial Mimicry, it is as only certain spells get boosted when under a specific pseudo-role. Forcing players to have a specific set of abilities to make full use of Aetherial Mimicry is one of the ways of balancing it. Since it’ll be too powerful if a Blue Mage can DPS and Heal at the same time so forcing players to sacrifice slots for the abilities needed for that role, can be a good idea. You can still build kits no problem. But as a Healer you heal and spam a DoT and a spam cast (Glare, Broil II, Malefic IV, Dia, Bio & Miasma, Combust III). As for Tank you just spam a rotation and try to build up your gauge as soon as possible ready to have enough to Mitigate an incoming Tankbuster (in the case of Paladin) or Deal damage (WAR, DRK, GNB)

Versatility is one of the core identities that gives Blue Mage its flair hence why it should Multirole. Even in FFXI Blue Mage are used for DPS, Support, Tanking and if you can Healing. Aetherial Mimicry will only force people to take certain abilities, however that doesn’t mean it is mandatory, I mean you can pick up a Tank pseudo-role and still have Pom Cure (even though it is not ideal). The freedom is still there. If I want I can toss away Gobshield and use Pom Cure and replace the slot meant for Gobshield with something else. It is not rigid that I can tell. They can still make a great kit even when it is a Normal Job.

Limited Job does the opposite instead of expressing creative freedom. All it ever did was provide filler content and not much to job improvements, the only improvement we see on the job is more new spells and level cap increase. There is nothing creative from that as people can reuse an old attack animation or the spell’s effects from a monster and slap it onto a Blue Mage and then readjusting the spell meant to be used by a player. If they really are expressing creative freedom then where is the experimental job gauge, so far with normal jobs there is even more creative freedom. Even then you can’t express true creative freedom because this is an MMO, you have to balance it no matter if the job is Limited or Normal. If it was a single player game the thought process would be different and people will try to be more ambitious and creative. This is an MMO where you have to balance, nerf, omit and make sure everything is working.

Hence why I said Limited Job is a flawed system and it'll never work, it has already contradicted everything the developers said it was meant for. Which were Solo-play, staying in a dungeon for 45 mins doesn't count as a soloing. Masked Carnival is a solo play but people thought everything else is also solo play which isn't. It is solo play for only one content and learning spells is still chance based even in duty finder when you go in solo; Less Suited for Party-based game play, We have spell related to group play and we even have achievements going in as a all Blue Mage party to clear Bahamut and Alexander (A8S & A12S werent easy), there is even an incentive for you to play as a group to get a spell in just 1 run and it is a guaranteed learn. Not just that but the group can be ANY party composition meaning you can go in as PLD, WHM, BLU and MNK and still get the 100% learning rate so long you are SYNCED. Like I said at the start of this paragraph Limited Job is useless and we don't need it as we can easily move Blue Mage into a normal job status after balancing it fully. If they want for Beastmaster and Puppetmaster they can just work on the pet system they have right now and slowly rework it and then add in beastmaster and puppetmaster as a Normal Job. We don't need limited jobs as it does not provide anything of use neither does the reward appeal many to go and redo it again.

[ADVSS]

You guys are clearly passionate about BLU. I sort of have to disagree about AM though. I dont honestly think it would be broken to just give BLU all 3 benefits at once, especially if they arent getting traits to 70, The healing might be slightly better than 1 vercure, but definitely not 2 back to back. The raise needs a fix, even for a dps with raise utility it shouldnt need a - swiftcast if its on a 3 minute recast or b - it shouldnt take 3 minutes to recast, period. Worst case scenario is that you can toggle between each role mid fight, either using the gauge, or have it on a cd maybe. I honestly think it will end up as a dps job with a role shift mechanic, or the skills could just work with all 3 benefits available.

[Dianoia]

The win-win solution is to give BLU a set number of abilities and a rotation balanced specifically for high end content. Have a toggle similar to content unsynch/synch for level and ilevel that allows BLU to que with their full, unbalanced repertoire. Now people who like BLU as it is can have it as it is and people who want BLU as a "full" job can have that, too.

[Alysella]

The win-win solution is to give BLU a set number of abilities and a rotation balanced specifically for high end content. Have a toggle similar to content unsynch/synch for level and ilevel that allows BLU to que with their full, unbalanced repertoire. Now people who like BLU as it is can have it as it is and people who want BLU as a "full" job can have that, too.

True. It can be like pvp actions. Same skill can have different effects and different potencies depends on the content. It is entirely possible for them to make something like this.

[MaraD_]

The win-win solution is to give BLU a set number of abilities and a rotation balanced specifically for high end content. Have a toggle similar to content unsynch/synch for level and ilevel that allows BLU to que with their full, unbalanced repertoire. Now people who like BLU as it is can have it as it is and people who want BLU as a "full" job can have that, too.

The weird thing is, ppl still complain about that.
Essentially their argument is that they will only do endgame content, and never touch content they can cheeze, because the game isnt forcing them anymore...
which the whole point was to have options in how you plan. thats why they liked limited BLU in the 1st place, so why is it suddenly an issue for them? idk, i dont get it, even if they try to spell it out for me. as far as im concerned, its the same system they have now, but adding max lv cap, and duty finder.

(Part of me thinks theres a technical reason BLU doesnt go into PotD. Like the game doesnt handle syncing u down/up, because somewhere in the coding, BLU actually uses that bit of code for something else, so PotD/HoH wont function, or some nonsense. Theres no real reason BLU cant do PotD/HoH, so im inclined to make up stories as to why)

[Shougun]

The weird thing is, ppl still complain about that.
Essentially their argument is that they will only do endgame content, and never touch content they can cheeze, because the game isnt forcing them anymore...
which the whole point was to have options in how you plan. thats why they liked limited BLU in the 1st place, so why is it suddenly an issue for them? idk, i dont get it, even if they try to spell it out for me. as far as im concerned, its the same system they have now, but adding max lv cap, and duty finder.

(Part of me thinks theres a technical reason BLU doesnt go into PotD. Like the game doesnt handle syncing u down/up, because somewhere in the coding, BLU actually uses that bit of code for something else, so PotD/HoH wont function, or some nonsense. Theres no real reason BLU cant do PotD/HoH, so im inclined to make up stories as to why)

Doesn't really feel like options, pseudo options. One of the things I agree with those who counter why blue isn't a normal in it's current state is that there are options that are absolutely brain dead awful and then few 'kay' but then like "the one" that is actually any good.

So let's go on the concept that you can have blue as it is, but no longer "limited" it's a full job (with all the mechanics it has currently, with maybe some minor tweaks). You've got three roles and each role has "the kit" you need to pick or else you're just a rock for your team. Switching out a few skills for a god awful cure because you want diversity isn't really a great opportunity (not saying white wind, obviously white wind on a tank would be gold in DF lol).

In this I actually think limited, and the more the job is designed with disregard for party content, allows the job to have more build choices because you get to play it yourself- just like in Diablo 3 or Hades or whatever other kit building game. Limited has the potential to have the most expansive kit building experience, as soon as you take kit building to party content that experience greatly restricts (even if you call it normal).

So I personally like the idea of limited designed without regard of party content as it sounds like "ah yeah, can kind of do whatever you want".

Counter to my own point though is you're kind of designing a WoW talent system with blue mage if you bring it all normal. . . "it can work" but the build diversity in that situation is three builds and if SE designs it with the most extreme talent and balance might get minor deviations for your own personal touch. Tank, Healer, DD. But assuming the balance is more on human levels and not god level design then- doesn't sound like kit building to me as much as being railroaded into specific sets of skills, while also causing a lot of potential balance and community issues (like blue mages who choose dumb kits causing lots of problems lol). This is why I think the pvp sort of concept would be the best, as it gives players a set expectation, a strong set of spells that are well designed for visual and mechanical play, and then allows blue mage to be the bucktoothed special duck on it's own time with either insanely awful or insanely OP builds.

So can a three role system work, yeah kind of like how it does already in WoW - it's basically what blue mage would be, a WoW job that could switch between their talent trees with relative ease. I'm just not certain the extra work in balancing three trees to the standard of a normal job (basically costing 'nearly' the balance time of three jobs, while also adding some community heart ache) is quite worth it vs just making one "damn good version" and letting limited side be all wonky and special like (personal opinion).

Also why I liked OP's idea a bit more on the kit building concept since it took some of the wild concepts of kit building and simplified it into more of some general options. Like a restrictive subway sandwich building experience. In this way it'd be impractical to build something truly awful (as OP grouped like skills together, meaning you get to pick minor variations of a concept rather than like "do you want white wind or do you want acorn bomb?").

But by taking the limited system with the full kit building experience (so not OP's idea which was more careful) to normal you can have some really awful blue mage builds lol.

You have looked through just 3 versions of Blue Mage that much I understand but there are over 6 versions of it (Not including the spinoffs) from the Final Fantasy series. Your generalization is more about the stereotypes and not the actual generalization. Yes most of the spells in these games are related to support and damage. However that is not Blue Mage in general. Blue Mage in general is a mage that practices Blue Magic and is versatile to the battle/situation.

Just looked at the rest, my statement stands . . until you reach FFXI lol. They're largely offensive support.

"But they can heal", so can many other jobs like summoner, red mage, etc.

"But they can help reduce damage", again similarly other jobs.

By having a healing spell or two doesn't make them a main healer, by having damage reduction doesn't make them a tank. Especially when their heal is generally hyper situational, and when you look at their damage reduction skills then so too is a white mage a tank when it whips out stoneskin, protect, and shell? Casting buffs that reduce damage isn't enough to make one a tank.

Primarily blue mage offers versatile utility and damage. Just like a Summoner might, or a Red Mage may.

Like vanish is a great damage reduction spell on physical bosses, but I don't need to cast it on blue, I can cast it on my Paladin who is also covering my black mage - which gets me more value than casting it on just my blue mage (especially as my paladin has all the defense and hp).

I understand blue mage is versatile, many FF jobs have it to some extent, some to a nearly equal level (often times Summoner gains a huge list of potentials, clearly red mage too), just being versatile doesn't make you have to be every role though (Especially when blue mage's tanking or healing are either situational or more like buffs than actual self tanking).

Think of it like a restoration druid in WoW. You're not a main tank or damage dealer anymore, you're a healer with some versatility (you could still transform into your other forms and that gives you some versatility certainly, but they're not going to be on par to an actual tank or an actual damage dealer). Blue Mage in the series has been consistently a druid who was spec to one specific tree (until FFXI hahaha). I'm not arguing their versatile but I'm arguing they don't have to be every role, although they could be, especially when they weren't technically in the past (again they're most often akin to a druid spec to the damage tree). They could sort of help you heal and sort of help you reduce damage, but they mostly dealt and disrupted the foes- meanwhile other jobs actually took the healing or the tanking to the "next level". Like casting stoneskin doesn't make white mage a tank neither does casting mighty guard. Situationally blue can drop big heals, but slap their hp just a bit and their heal then jumps into terrible while white mage's is going to be amazing no matter what (especially late game white mage can heal huge numbers).

Also if we're discussing FFXI then a lot of jobs could do things that one wouldn't expect, like Ninja is a tank, SMN is a main healer / buffer, Red Mage is a main healer, soloer, debuffer, buffer, pez dispenser, and even decent damage if built right. I would not use FFXI has the standard of what made the job it's sterotype, FFXI did what it wanted with each job (and sometimes to great effect, sometimes kind of awful lol). I played blue mage in FFXI, it was fun with the multi-role ability, like with magic fruit and the right gear you could main heal as blue with relative ease (and the mp cost was really cheap).

I never said it was easy, besides it is doable. A tall order it may be, but it is very much doable with time and dedication from the development team but they rush it before 5.0 because they didn't have the solution before the next expansion.

I think it's technically possible but just sounded like a lot more challenge and cost, like in WoW each job has multiple trees and many of the jobs have actually good trees (some have awful choices, particularly during certain expansions). But like druid is a solid choice as a healer, tank, and damage dealer. So going back to what I said before I tend to see blue mag through the whole series a bit like druid spec to a specific tree, well technically you can so "why not get more creative and let blue spec to other trees, they're 65% the way there and we've loads of monster skills that can facilitate this, also "ffxi"" - okay yeah sure, it's a thing that can happen lol. But again stereotypically blue mage was a druid spec to just one tree, not all three trees at all times, at least until FFXI came along (but part of that is also the sub job system which we don't have here).

It doesn't bother me that you think it should be all three or that it adds a lot of value for the players with not loads of time on their hand, or you think it might be extra fun. I just also don't really think that stereotypically blue mage was all three roles at once. Like I never thought Red Mage was all three roles at once even though they could wield a sword, use both white and black magic. They were your offensive support.

If you feel Red Mage should have multi-roled too then I guess okay.. but I don't really think that it was and I think Blue Mage is basically a weirdly paced more gimmicky Red Mage with a cooler theme for magic :3 (both offer many similar concepts in terms of actions and equipment, blue just having more situational / oddly balanced skills).

I had a hunch (You can skip this sentence/part), why release a job half baked/done right before the next expansion and say it took you a year to make it. I kept wondering and speculated, maybe they were planning to bring it to 5.0 but didn’t have the time and resources necessary to allow it to come to fruition. Then when I heard 5.4 will be a new update for Blue Mage I thought maybe that was the case maybe they were planning on a full job for it but 5.0 wasn’t it’s time to shine. At this point with my assumption I can only speculate further.

Early on around blue mage's release I had also suggested that they take the limited concept as a way to make three jobs an expansion. Release 4.5 as limited, make it normal by 5.5x. So I agree with this possibility.

They had a year to work on Blue Mage and yet there this is what we get, a broken mess. However when the 5.15 update for Blue Mage was released they added more emphasis on group play and roles with the new spells and the key spell Aetherial Mimicry. The reason why I say they should have the customization is mainly because we have yet to see the job gauge. Who knows maybe they'll add or not. Because most job gauges for mages (Except Summoner) are a build up type of gauge. If you lock the powerful skills behind such a gauge you then have forced the player to choose to either tank, heal or DPS properly. Look at Red mage, can’t do a full combo until you are 80+ in both white and black magic. Black Mages need to wait 30 seconds to get 1 Polyglot to even cast Xenoglossy. The same could be applied to all 3 roles. Healer already has proven it with the Faerie and Healing gauge, and Tank with Oath, Beast and Blood Gauge. It has been proven already in the game that the Build Up type gauge is most used universally in every job. Which is why it is doable for it to be applied for all 3 roles. If all 3 roles use it, then surely a job with all 3 roles can do the same as well.

What I have said about Limited is about the system itself. “Limited Job is just a copycat of the Normal Job System but with restrictions” It isn’t a tall order because If you just remove the restrictions on the Limited Job system. You’ll come to realize it is exactly the same system with just minor changes. If Blue Mage were turned into a normal job then integrating it wouldn’t be much of a difficulty as these are systems that categorizes jobs. They don’t provide content rather they are just like houses holding in furniture and its residents. With the residents being the Jobs and the furniture being the Content.

With the way they implemented Aetherial Mimicry, it is as only certain spells get boosted when under a specific pseudo-role. Forcing players to have a specific set of abilities to make full use of Aetherial Mimicry is one of the ways of balancing it. Since it’ll be too powerful if a Blue Mage can DPS and Heal at the same time so forcing players to sacrifice slots for the abilities needed for that role, can be a good idea. You can still build kits no problem. But as a Healer you heal and spam a DoT and a spam cast (Glare, Broil II, Malefic IV, Dia, Bio & Miasma, Combust III). As for Tank you just spam a rotation and try to build up your gauge as soon as possible ready to have enough to Mitigate an incoming Tankbuster (in the case of Paladin) or Deal damage (WAR, DRK, GNB)

Versatility is one of the core identities that gives Blue Mage its flair hence why it should Multirole. Even in FFXI Blue Mage are used for DPS, Support, Tanking and if you can Healing. Aetherial Mimicry will only force people to take certain abilities, however that doesn’t mean it is mandatory, I mean you can pick up a Tank pseudo-role and still have Pom Cure (even though it is not ideal). The freedom is still there. If I want I can toss away Gobshield and use Pom Cure and replace the slot meant for Gobshield with something else. It is not rigid that I can tell. They can still make a great kit even when it is a Normal Job.

Limited Job does the opposite instead of expressing creative freedom. All it ever did was provide filler content and not much to job improvements, the only improvement we see on the job is more new spells and level cap increase. There is nothing creative from that as people can reuse an old attack animation or the spell’s effects from a monster and slap it onto a Blue Mage and then readjusting the spell meant to be used by a player. If they really are expressing creative freedom then where is the experimental job gauge, so far with normal jobs there is even more creative freedom. Even then you can’t express true creative freedom because this is an MMO, you have to balance it no matter if the job is Limited or Normal. If it was a single player game the thought process would be different and people will try to be more ambitious and creative. This is an MMO where you have to balance, nerf, omit and make sure everything is working.

Hence why I said Limited Job is a flawed system and it'll never work, it has already contradicted everything the developers said it was meant for. Which were Solo-play, staying in a dungeon for 45 mins doesn't count as a soloing. Masked Carnival is a solo play but people thought everything else is also solo play which isn't. It is solo play for only one content and learning spells is still chance based even in duty finder when you go in solo; Less Suited for Party-based game play, We have spell related to group play and we even have achievements going in as a all Blue Mage party to clear Bahamut and Alexander (A8S & A12S werent easy), there is even an incentive for you to play as a group to get a spell in just 1 run and it is a guaranteed learn. Not just that but the group can be ANY party composition meaning you can go in as PLD, WHM, BLU and MNK and still get the 100% learning rate so long you are SYNCED. Like I said at the start of this paragraph Limited Job is useless and we don't need it as we can easily move Blue Mage into a normal job status after balancing it fully. If they want for Beastmaster and Puppetmaster they can just work on the pet system they have right now and slowly rework it and then add in beastmaster and puppetmaster as a Normal Job. We don't need limited jobs as it does not provide anything of use neither does the reward appeal many to go and redo it again.

If you were going to make the limited system shift into normal I can see the AM being a paramount skill to enforcing some sane sense of balance. I don't like it strictly in the sense if blue mage remains limited.

If by using AM you forced players out of specific skills and also forced players into specific skills I could see it being more easily balanced, like how OP has set specific role slots so you can't just do "whatever".

I do agree it seems nearly everything they said they wanted to do they then contradicted with their own decisions, like not wanting players to have to get specific skills in group settings and then putting the job into settings where that is entirely needed lol. While I'd still personally be a bit bummed if the job never becomes normal or the limited side isn't given a revamp I would be far less salty if they just came out and were like "hokay! So... this si what we actually are intending with blue mage, it's meant to be "x"". Apologies are not needed (kind of sucks if you feel like every time something is slightly off you have to beg for something, bit silly), opinions and goals are allowed to change- but the information we have at the near spawn of blue mage paints an entirely different story than the blue mage we actually have now (as almost every goal they mentioned seems like a goal they intentionally then broke).

However I do see blue mage working well as a broken cleanup job with super high kit building interactability (so still limited). I don't like PF limited but some people enjoy that, personally think it would be achieved much better with another concept, but just wanted to at least voice that some people really like the idea.

So in some people's mind the job does totally work and isn't a failure. Of course on some levels I disagree with that mindset (at least so much that I wish it changed and they don't), but there does exist the mindset that "it's fun and good".

I'm of the mind the general desire of PF exclusive is fine, like making niche content for ultimate raiders, but that using blue for it and how they went about it were not quite the best choices (like if black mage only showed up in Eureka or something, just seems like "..that is a wild choice yo.." lol). Like if they wanted so many spells I would be more impressed if they were useful, I don't really see why I should be excited for 20 spells of varying colors and the same or slightly alerted potency at that point I think "why bother with that when you could just make one set of impressively designed skills?".

I still think balancing 120 skills (+) into three roles while still offering a fair amount of kit building (more restrictive the building the easier making things work gets).. is like "yikes" . . . but let's just say they somehow pull it off (ignore the concern). Then that could be neat. I still hope the mechanics of the job are reviewed though, some roles, and progression, are kind of 'meh'.

Also if they ever said balancing those 3 roles cost them making 3 other unique jobs.. Bigger yikes lol. That's where I think if it has limited stuff while I don't think it should be "eh who cares whatever" style design that if they made a booboo it doesn't really matter. "oh no I made the fire build too strong for this patch cycle, i'll fix it when I can" vs "blue mage tank and damage is god awful and is ruining my DF, meanwhile blue healer is so OP people wont accept me into raid if I dont main heal blue" xD.

I don't hate limited as a generic concept, .. just how they did it with blue like giving this sense of we'll give you so many extra skills and you can build kits and it's going to be gree-- but then it really feels like nah most skills can be put into a pile of "same" and the builds narrow down drastically into musts and doesn't matters (pseudo choice as some people call it, like sure you can take pom cure on tank AM... but it's going to suck lol). If this was mimic job or something really strange I think it'd not matter as much to me but since it was a job I always thought had a neat spirit I'd hope something more from it than whatever it is currently.

If SE can somehow make it three whole, interestingly designed, roles without destroying 3 other unique job's chances, or the balance of the game, cool, sounds extra hard, but cool. If SE makes it have a normal side to sit next to PF exclusive, cool (I think both systems would help each other out). If SE makes it normal and primarily solo designed, extra cool for me, but I'd kind of hope they add a new PF exclusive content since it does seem some people liked that (a new idea ideally, so not to take away someone's dreams).

[ADVSS]

I dont really understand the whole 3 roles in one. BLU has been a jack of all almost to the same vein as RDM. I think though, that people wanted a class that was versatile in different roles, or could tag in as a replacement this or that. Im going to look at past BLU spells and effects, but it always seemed to be a caster 1st, and potentially a support mage, but besides WW, usually had abysmal healing, and well the tanking is most likely an XI thing, personally. It could wear some medium armor in V, but still

BLU before 11 reinvented it:

Angel Whisper - Angel Whisper revives and restores HP to KO'd allies.
Mighty Guard - Mighty Guard grants Protect and Shell, plus other statuses that vary from game to game, to the entire party.
White Wind - White Wind restores HP to the party based in some way on the caster's HP.
Frog Song - Frog Song usually inflicts Toad and sometimes Sleep. It is generally learned from Toad enemies.
Magic Hammer - Magic Hammer reduces or drains a target's MP.
Night - Night puts all targets, friend and foe, to sleep. It even affects the caster in Final Fantasy IX.

Offensive spells

Aero - Aero inflicts Wind elemental damage. Often appears as White or Black Magic. Other similar spells varying in power are Aerora and Aeroga.
Aqua Breath - Aqua Breath inflicts Water elemental damage to all enemies.
Bad Breath - Bad Breath inflicts various statuses on all enemies, which differs from game to game. It is generally learned from the Malboro enemies.
Flamethrower - Flamethrower inflicts Fire elemental damage to one enemy. It is generally learned from Dragon enemies.
Doom - Doom inflicts the Doom status on one enemy.
Level 5 Death - Level 5 Death inflicts Instant Death on all enemies whose levels are a multiple of 5. In some games, it may work on bosses that are normally immune to normal death magic.
Roulette - Roulette randomly knocks out any target in battle, whether it is an enemy or a party member.
1000 Needles - 1000 Needles inflicts 1000 damage to an enemy, regardless of defense stat or bonuses such as Protect. The ability is usually learned from the Cactuar enemy.
Acid - Acid inflicts non-elemental damage to an enemy, as well as status effects.
Blaster - Blaster generally inflicts non-elemental damage and attempts to inflict Instant Death on the target. It is generally learned from the Coeurl enemies.
Goblin Punch - Goblin Punch inflicts non-elemental damage to one enemy, but inflicts massive damage if the enemy's level is the same as the caster. It is generally learned from Goblin enemies.
Lifebreak - Also known as ???, Lifebreak inflicts damage based on the difference between the caster's Max HP and current HP. Behemoth enemies generally use this spell.
Limit Glove - Limit Glove inflicts massive damage when the caster's HP is in critical.
Matra Magic - Matra Magic deals non-elemental damage to all enemies or attempts to inflict Instant Death. Can generally be learned from Machine enemies.
Self-Destruct - Self-Destruct sacrifices the user to inflict non-elemental damage equal to user's current HP. It is generally learned from Bomb enemies.

Game specific
Final Fantasy V

Flash - blinds all enemies.
Level 2 Old - casts Old on all targets with a level that is a multiple of 2.
Level 3 Flare - casts Flare on all targets with a level that is a multiple of 3.
Level 4 Graviga - casts Graviga on all targets with a level that is a multiple of 4.
Guard-Off - lowers the target's defense.
Lilliputian Lyric - casts Mini on the target.
Death Claw - reduces target's HP to a single digit and paralyzes them.
Time Slip - casts Old and Sleep on the target.
Moon Flute - casts Berserk on the target.
Transfusion - fully restores target's HP and MP. KOs the user afterward.
Dark Spark - halves the target's level.
Vampire - drains HP from the target by an amount equal to either the difference in the user's current and max HP or the target's current HP.

Final Fantasy VI

Tsunami - deals Water damage to all enemies.
Level 3 Confuse - casts Confuse on all enemies whose level is a multiple of 3.
Reflect??? - causes Darkness, Silence, and Slow on all opponents who have the Reflect status.
Traveler - deals damage to one opponent equal to the number of steps the party has taken throughout the game divided by 32.
Force Field - nulls all damage done by a random element to everyone on the field—allies and foes both.
Dischord - halves the level of one enemy. Enemies immune to death will not be affected.
Rippler - switches any status ailments Strago has with those of one opponent.
Quasar - deals non-elemental magic damage to all opponents.
Grand Delta - deals non-elemental magic damage to all opponents. More powerful than quasar.

Final Fantasy VII

Beta - deals massive Fire damage to all enemies, ignoring Reflect.
Chocobuckle - deals damage equal to the number of times the party has escaped from battle times 4, only if the caster's level is a multiple of 4.

Final Fantasy VIII

Laser Eye - Lasers from caster's eyes hurt a single enemy.
Ultra Waves - deals non-elemental damage and Berserks all enemies.
Electrocute - deals Lightning damage to all enemies.
LV?Death - casts Death on any enemy whose level is a multiple of a certain number, which depends on Quistis's Crisis Level.
Degenerator - eliminates an enemy from battle.
Gatling Gun - deals physical damage to one enemy.
Acid - deals damage and status change on a single enemy.
Homing Laser - deals damage to all enemies.
Raybomb - deals physical damage to all enemies.
Shockwave Pulsar - deals massive non-elemental damage to all enemies. Dealing critical damage that may exceed the 9,999 limit.

Final Fantasy IX

Level 4 Holy - deals Holy damage to all enemies whose levels are a multiple of 4.
Level 3 Defless - randomly lowers the defense and magic defense of enemies whose levels are a multiple of 3.
Twister - deals random Wind damage to all enemies.
Earth Shake - deals Earth damage to all enemies on the ground.
Angel's Snack - consumes four Remedies to use on the entire party at once.
Frog Drop - deals damage based on the number of Frogs that Quina has eaten.
Vanish - causes a target to disappear and become immune to physical damage.
Frost - attempts to inflict the Freeze status on one target.
Mustard Bomb - attempts to inflict the Heat status on one target.
Auto-Life - causes one target to automatically be revived once after being KO'd.

Final Fantasy X

Seed Cannon - deals damage to one target.
Thrust Kick - causes physical damage to one target and attempts to Eject the target from battle.
Stone Breath - inflicts the Stone status on all vulnerable enemies.
Nova - deals massive non-elemental damage to all enemies.

Final Fantasy X-2

Seed Cannon - deals damage to one target.
Stone Breath - inflicts the Stone status on all vulnerable enemies.
Nova - deals massive non-elemental damage to all enemies.
Absorb - absorbs a small amount of HP and MP from a target.
Cry in the Night - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party.
Drill Shot - deals physical damage to one target.
Mortar - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party.
Annihilator - deals non-elemental damage the entire target party.
Heaven's Cataract - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party and reduces its defense and magic-defense.
Storm Cannon - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party based on the caster's level.

and then BLU as 11's reinvention

Acrid Stream - deals water damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Lowers target's Magic Defense.
Actinic Burst - greatly lowers the accuracy of enemies within range for a brief period of time.
Amplification - enhances the casters magic attack and magic defense.
Animating Wail - increases the casters attack speed.
Asuran Claws - delivers a sixfold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Auroral Drape - silences and blinds enemies within range.
Awful Eye - lowers Strength of enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Battery Charge - gradually restores the casters MP.
Battle Dance - delivers an area attack. Additional effect: DEX Down. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Benthic Typhoon - delivers an area attack that lowers target's defense and magic defense. Damage varies with TP.
Blank Gaze - removes one beneficial magic effect from an enemy.
Blastbomb - deals fire damage to enemies within area of effect. Additional effect: "Bind".
Blazing Bound - deals fire damage to an enemy.
Blitzstrahl - deals lightning damage to an enemy. Additional effect: "Stun".
Blood Drain - steals an enemy's HP. Ineffective against undead.
Blood Saber - steals HP from enemies within range. Ineffective against undead.
Bludgeon - delivers a threefold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Body Slam - delivers an area attack. Damage varies with TP.
Bomb Toss - throws a bomb at an enemy.
Cannonball - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Chaotic Eye - silences an enemy.
Charged Whisker - deals Lightning damage to enemies within area of effect.
Cimicine Discharge - reduces the attack speed of enemies within range.
Claw Cyclone - damages enemies within area of effect with a twofold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Cocoon - enhances the casters defense.
Cold Wave - deals ice damage that lowers Agility and gradually reduces HP of enemies within range.
Corrosive Ooze - deals water damage to an enemy. Additional Effect: Attack Down and Defense Down.
Cursed Sphere - deals water damage to enemies within area of effect.
Death Ray - deals dark damage to an enemy.
Death Scissors - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Delta Thrust - delivers a threefold attack on a single target. Additional effect: Plague.
Demoralizing Roar - weakens the attack of enemies within range.
Diamondhide - gives party members within area of effect the effect of "Stoneskin".
Digest - steals an enemy's HP. Ineffective against undead.
Dimensional Death - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Disseverment - delivers a fivefold attack. Additional effect: Poison. Accuracy varies with TP.
Dream Flower - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Empty Thrash - delivers an area of attack attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Enervation - lowers the defense and magical defense of enemies within range.
Everyone's Grudge - deals dark damage to an enemy.
Exuviation - restores the casters HP and removes one detrimental magic effect.
Eyes On Me - deals dark damage to an enemy.
Fantod - enhances the casters attack and magic attack.
Feather Barrier - enhances the casters evasion.
Feather Storm - damages the enemy and may inflict poison. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Feather Tickle - reduces an enemy's TP.
Filamented Hold - reduces the attack speed of enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Final Sting - deals damage proportional to the casters HP. Reduces the casters HP to 1 after use. Damage varies with TP.
Firespit - deals fire damage to an enemy.
Flying Hip Press - deals wind damage to enemies within range.
Foot Kick - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Frenetic Rip - delivers a threefold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Frightful Roar - weakens defense of enemies within range.
Frost Breath - deals ice damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Paralysis.
Frypan - delivers an area attack. Additional effect: "Stun". Accuracy varies with TP.
Geist Wall - removes one beneficial magic effect from enemies within range.
Goblin Rush - delivers a threefold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Grand Slam - delivers an area attack. Damage varies with TP.
Head Butt - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP. Additional effect: "Stun".
Healing Breeze - restores HP for party members within area of effect.
Heat Breath - deals fire damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Hecatomb Wave - deals wind damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Blindness.
Leafstorm - deals wind damage within area of effect.
Helldive - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Hydro Shot - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Enmity Down. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Hysteric Barrage - delivers a fivefold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Ice Break - deals ice damage to enemies within range. Additional Effect: "Bind".
Infrasonics - lowers the evasion of enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Jet Stream - delivers a threefold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Jettatura - enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster are frozen with fear.
Light of Penance - reduces an enemy's TP. Additional effect: Blindness and "Bind".
Lowing - gives enemies within range a powerful disease that prevents recovery of HP and MP.
MP Drainkiss - steals an enemy's MP. Ineffective against undead.
Maelstrom - deals water damage to enemies within range. Additional effect: STR Down.
Magic Barrier - grants the caster a Magic Shield effect.
Magic Fruit - restores HP for the target party member.
Magnetite Cloud - deals earth damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Weight.
Mandibular Bite - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Memento Mori - enhances the casters magic attack.
Metallic Body - absorbs an certain amount of damage from physical and magical attacks.
Mind Blast - deals lightning damage to an enemy. Additional effect: Paralysis.
Mysterious Light - deals wind damage to enemies within range. Additional effect: Weight.
Osmosis - steals an enemy's HP and one beneficial status effect. Ineffective against undead.
Occultation - creates shadow images that each absorb a single attack directed at the caster.
Pinecone Bomb - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: sleep. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Plasma Charge - covers the caster with magical lightning spikes. Enemies that hit the caster take lightning damage.
Plenilune Embrace - restores target party member's HP and enhances attack and magic attack. Attack boost and magic attack boost depends on the current moon phase.
Poison Breath - deals water damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Poison.
Pollen - restores the casters HP.
Power Attack - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Quadratic Continuum - delivers a fourfold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Queasyshroom - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Poison. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Radiant Breath - deals light damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area of effect originating from the caster. Additional effect: Slow and Silence.
Ram Charge - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Reactor Cool - enhances defense and covers the caster with magical ice spikes. Enemies that hit the caster take ice damage.
Reaving Wind - reduces TP for enemies within range.
Refueling - increases the casters attack speed.
Regeneration - gradually restores the casters HP.
Regurgitation - deals Water damage to an enemy. Additional Effect: Bind.
Saline Coat - enhances the casters magic defense.
Sandspin - deals earth damage to enemies within range. Additional Effect: Accuracy Down.
Sandspray - blinds enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Screwdriver - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Seedspray - delivers a threefold attack. Additional effect: Weakens defense. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Sheep Song - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Sickle Slash - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Smite of Rage - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Soporific - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Sound Blast - lowers Intelligence of enemies within range.
Spinal Cleave - deals a single hit attack to the target. Accuracy varies with TP.
Spiral Spin - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional Effect: Accuracy Down. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Sprout Smack - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Slow. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Stinking Gas - lowers Vitality of enemies within range.
Sub-zero Smash - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional Effect: Paralysis. Damage varies with TP.
Tail Slap - delivers an area attack. Additional effect: "Stun." Damage varies with TP.
Temporal Shift - enemies within range are temporarily prevented from acting.
Terror Touch - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Weakens attacks. Accuracy varies with TP.
Thermal Pulse - deals Fire damage to enemies within area of effect. Additional effect: Blindness.
Triumphant Roar - enhances the casters Attack.
Uppercut - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Vanity Dive - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Venom Shell - poisons enemies within range and gradually reduces their HP.
Vertical Cleave - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Voracious Trunk - steals one beneficial effect from an enemy.
Warm-Up - enhances the casters accuracy and evasion.
Whirl of Rage - delivers an area attack that stuns enemies. Damage varies with TP.
Wild Carrot - restores HP for the target party member.
Wild Oats - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Vitality Down. Duration of effect varies on TP.
Winds of Promyvion - removes one detrimental magic effect for party members within area of effect.
Yawn - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Zephyr Mantle - creates shadow images that each absorb a single attack directed at the caster.