Why is the WoL so lame in cutscenes?

[Kesey]

Hate to put it this way but, you aren't my WoL. You can hesitate, you can fear for a friends life. I would actually prefer not to lose another one if it were in my power to do so. It most definitely was.

Sorry not sorry. Look at what happened because of our scripted ineptitude. Can you honestly say it was the right choice?

I'd rather have done something other than what we did do by standing there. You hesitate, people die or worse. We got the worse.


"To ignore the plight of those one might conceivably save is not wisdom - it is indolence. We must all protect that which we hold dear in the manner of our own choosing..." - Louisoix Leveilleur, a good friend my WoL actually met. He didn't hesitate either.

I hate to put it this way, but you are also not writing the story. Can you be so obtuse as to see that attacking would have killed Mikoto and summoned Gunnhildr and more people would have been tempered and now it was your fault? I'm sure Louisoix, who you are manipulating his words to fit your situation, would have had the same note of caution (rebelling against the norms of your culture for the greater good of the world is NOT equal to throwing lives away because you obstinately refuse to let your WOL have the personality trait of "caution").

Yes, it was the right choice. A hundred times over and over. The main force of the resistance wasn't tempered even if we lost "the squad," so the war effort can go on. Mikoto was saved so at least our friend and ally (who can see the future and has the echo and the scholarly knowledge to benefit the war effort) can live on to help. The first and second in command of Blades were also not lost, so the command structure for the resistance is still in place. I know it wasn't a perfect solution and we lost the Blades' elite squad, but you haven't been paying attention-- It's "For those we have lost. For those we can yet save." If the story hasn't taught you that you can't control everything but should persevere anyways and continue to see it as "ineptitude" then you have truly missed the point that this whole situation could have been far worse.

[Kesey]

The main gripe people have is that she wasn't in immediate danger anymore when Misija kicked her away then nobody bothered trying capitalize on it, plus she actually ends up taking a hit from her anyways but is no worse for wear not long after which makes the whole thing feel even more silly.

There was a whole regiment of martial/magical prodigies aside from us who did nothing when logically, they'd be scrutinizing the offender and waiting for the slightest opening to secure the hostage.

They did capitalize on it. Marsak, the second in command, grabs her and escapes. Literally the moment Misijia/Gunnhildr is distracted long enough (trying to blast through the WOL's barrier) to make good on the escape. This was the prime moment and our side takes full advantage. The logic continues because Mikoto has the echo, so she can't be tempered, but resistance forces need shielded. I'm not sure I see how the player character has lost agency here.

[Riastrad]

I hate to put it this way, but you are also not writing the story. Can you be so obtuse as to see that attacking would have killed Mikoto and summoned Gunnhildr and more people would have been tempered and now it was your fault? I'm sure Louisoix, who you are manipulating his words to fit your situation, would have had the same note of caution (rebelling against the norms of your culture for the greater good of the world is NOT equal to throwing lives away because you obstinately refuse to let your WOL have the personality trait of "caution").

Yes, it was the right choice. A hundred times over and over. The main force of the resistance wasn't tempered even if we lost "the squad," so the war effort can go on. Mikoto was saved so at least our friend and ally (who can see the future and has the echo and the scholarly knowledge to benefit the war effort) can live on to help. The first and second in command of Blades were also not lost, so the command structure for the resistance is still in place. I know it wasn't a perfect solution and we lost the Blades' elite squad, but you haven't been paying attention-- It's "For those we have lost. For those we can yet save." If the story hasn't taught you that you can't control everything but should persevere anyways and continue to see it as "ineptitude" then you have truly missed the point that this whole situation could have been far worse.

Gunnhildr was only summoned because we used the echo to see the events leading up to her death. Meaning the blade, while important, was only a part of it. Mikoto was already too far away to have been attacked without some of the most elite fighters in the Resistance having something to say about it. Instead we sit there, help summon a primal, lose some of the Blades, and lose the Castrum. Far worse? How the heck could it have gone far worse?

Your waifu was attacked, we get it. But this pattern of our characters slaying gods in game and losing due to inaction in cutscenes is really getting old. For 10 years I have watched my character shield his eyes any time something bad happens. For 10 years. I don't need to be writing the story to tell you that this was beyond stupid of our character, albeit typical. Some of the Blades even say they should do something when we activate the Echo to use on the blade. Marsak notes that they don't know what could happen if they move us. Here's the problem, why not get in position to take the blade, put Misija in chains, or simply move her away from the area? Even if something bad happened to her, would anyone care?

Don't tell me that I haven't been paying attention when it's clear as day that Gunnhildr was only summoned by our echo being used to peer into the blades past (via the crystal focus, like we did with Cid) so Misija could feed false memories to her. What rot.

You also fail to understand the second part of Louisoix's quote. "We must all protect that which we hold dear in the manner of our own choosing."

My characters agency has most definitely been taken away each time I am forced to suffer a defeat due to a loss of control of my character's actions (Ul'dah, Haurchefant, Zenos, Ran'jit). I love this game so very much, but honestly, this was stupid. More stupid to add to the stupid pile of stupid, slack jawed impotency.

You don't get to decide how some else gets to react to situations luckily. So go. Hesitate away. It's what you seem to enjoy.

[Vyrerus]

I hate to put it this way, but you are also not writing the story. Can you be so obtuse as to see that attacking would have killed Mikoto and summoned Gunnhildr and more people would have been tempered and now it was your fault? I'm sure Louisoix, who you are manipulating his words to fit your situation, would have had the same note of caution (rebelling against the norms of your culture for the greater good of the world is NOT equal to throwing lives away because you obstinately refuse to let your WOL have the personality trait of "caution").

Yes, it was the right choice. A hundred times over and over. The main force of the resistance wasn't tempered even if we lost "the squad," so the war effort can go on. Mikoto was saved so at least our friend and ally (who can see the future and has the echo and the scholarly knowledge to benefit the war effort) can live on to help. The first and second in command of Blades were also not lost, so the command structure for the resistance is still in place. I know it wasn't a perfect solution and we lost the Blades' elite squad, but you haven't been paying attention-- It's "For those we have lost. For those we can yet save." If the story hasn't taught you that you can't control everything but should persevere anyways and continue to see it as "ineptitude" then you have truly missed the point that this whole situation could have been far worse.

Uhm. No. Just no. You're putting the value of Mikoto's life over that of literally everyone else in the room. It was entirely the wrong and stupid choice, as it usually is. If we'd refused to help Misjia, she couldn't have summoned Gunnhildr. She doesn't have the power/knowledge to access the memories like we and Mikoto do. It's literally already our fault with how events were portrayed.

Also Minfilia's quote is dumb. "For those we have lost." --> Why did we lose them? Oh yeah, we keep just standing by until we're allowed to act by the scriptwriter. It's usually tolerable, but not this time. The turned Blades are going to go on to kill many more of their own comrades while tempered, not too mention countless others, likely innocents. I guess the possibility of Mikoto dying is still worse than the loss of all those other lives though. "For those we can yet save." Welp, looks like it's those we can yet get massacred.

[Kesey]

Gunnhildr was only summoned because we used the echo to see the events leading up to her death. Meaning the blade, while important, was only a part of it. Mikoto was already too far away to have been attacked without some of the most elite fighters in the Resistance having something to say about it. Instead we sit there, help summon a primal, lose some of the Blades, and lose the Castrum. Far worse? How the heck could it have gone far worse?

Your waifu was attacked, we get it. But this pattern of our characters slaying gods in game and losing due to inaction in cutscenes is really getting old. For 10 years I have watched my character shield his eyes any time something bad happens. For 10 years. I don't need to be writing the story to tell you that this was beyond stupid of our character, albeit typical. Some of the Blades even say they should do something when we activate the Echo to use on the blade. Marsak notes that they don't know what could happen if they move us. Here's the problem, why not get in position to take the blade, put Misija in chains, or simply move her away from the area? Even if something bad happened to her, would anyone care?

Don't tell me that I haven't been paying attention when it's clear as day that Gunnhildr was only summoned by our echo being used to peer into the blades past (via the crystal focus, like we did with Cid) so Misija could feed false memories to her. What rot.

You also fail to understand the second part of Louisoix's quote. "We must all protect that which we hold dear in the manner of our own choosing."

My characters agency has most definitely been taken away each time I am forced to suffer a defeat due to a loss of control of my character's actions (Ul'dah, Haurchefant, Zenos, Ran'jit). I love this game so very much, but honestly, this was stupid. More stupid to add to the stupid pile of stupid, slack jawed impotency.

You don't get to decide how some else gets to react to situations luckily. So go. Hesitate away. It's what you seem to enjoy.

To be clear, if Mikoto was killed with the blade it would have ALSO summoned Gunnhildr. Call it damned if you do and damned if you don't, but we already played right into Mijisa's plan. Except your way would have killed Mikoto and summoned a primal. Instead we have hope, since Mikoto is alive, we can change the primal's mind and save Bojza. The primal was coming either way.

Furthermore, the Louisoix quote isn't about throwing caution to the wind. It's about choosing to act when you can do nothing. In that context, when applied to Bozja, is that you are helping the resistance instead of ignoring it. Not risking the lives of the resistance and Mikoto to prove you have the upper hand because you are a god slayer.

I'm just disappointed that your protest to not be "inept" can't be seen for what it is: "I'm just reckless".

[Kesey]

Uhm. No. Just no. You're putting the value of Mikoto's life over that of literally everyone else in the room. It was entirely the wrong and stupid choice, as it usually is. If we'd refused to help Misjia, she couldn't have summoned Gunnhildr. She doesn't have the power/knowledge to access the memories like we and Mikoto do. It's literally already our fault with how events were portrayed..

This is so ironic that the "my character is helpless in cutscenes" crowd can't see they were played by Misija. The primal was going to be summoned either way. If you did attack she murders Mikoto and the blade summons Gunnhildr. Or we remain cautious and she manipulates our echo to her advantage and summons Gunnhildr. The fact she is an archeologist and has the family history to have this knowledge of the blade and primal gives her the upper hand in all scenarios.

[Riastrad]

To be clear, if Mikoto was killed with the blade it would have ALSO summoned Gunnhildr. Call it damned if you do and damned if you don't, but we already played right into Mijisa's plan. Except your way would have killed Mikoto and summoned a primal that was concerned with killing as it was spawned from murder. Instead we have hope, since Mikoto is alive, we can change the primal's mind and save Bojza. The primal was coming either way.

Furthermore, the Louisoix quote isn't about throwing caution to the wind. It's about choosing to act when you can do nothing. In that context, when applied to Bozja, is that you are helping the resistance instead of ignoring it. Not risking the lives of the resistance and Mikoto to prove you have the upper hand because you are a god slayer.

I'm just disappointed that your protest to not be "inept" can't be seen for what it is: "I'm just reckless".

Whoa, whoa, whoa, where'd that bit come in? How would killing Mikoto summon anything? Aether? No, because she already drained the focus and had what she needed. Mikoto was just a way to get us in close so we could use our echo (again, Misija knew we needed to be the one to do it because she was standing right outside the tent when we did it for Cid), which we fell for because of course we did. In my recollection of events, at no point was that even mentioned. Now I could be wrong, but I honestly don't remember that ever being said. Why would Gunnhildr care one wit about Mikoto's fate?



Also, your disappointment is kindly noted and filed away in my who cares folder.

[KageTokage]

They did capitalize on it. Marsak, the second in command, grabs her and escapes. Literally the moment Misijia/Gunnhildr is distracted long enough (trying to blast through the WOL's barrier) to make good on the escape. This was the prime moment and our side takes full advantage. The logic continues because Mikoto has the echo, so she can't be tempered, but resistance forces need shielded. I'm not sure I see how the player character has lost agency here.

That was after everything went to shite, which didn't feel like it believably needed to even happen in the first place.

When you're in a situation where your hostage is literally the only thing giving you any leverage, you don't throw them away when you're got multiple martial artists who can be breathing down your neck in a fraction of a second, mages who can incapacitate you or shield the hostage in the blink of an eye, and archers/gunners who could cripple you at a moment's notice.

[SannaR]

That was after everything went to shite, which didn't feel like it believably needed to even happen in the first place.

When you're in a situation where your hostage is literally the only thing giving you any leverage, you don't throw them away when you're got multiple martial artists who can be breathing down your neck in a fraction of a second, mages who can incapacitate you or shield the hostage in the blink of an eye, and archers/gunners who could cripple you at a moment's notice.

This right here. You're telling me the very fast rogue/ninja couldn't have ran over to Mikoto right after she was kicked down to us? Or how about when she's again kicked away from Misija? Hell the fact that no one tries to react when the blades are being formed and everyone just stands there? It's one thing for our character to act how they normally act. It's a completely different thing when npcs do so. Yes I do understand that you could say the Blades were stunned as they hadn't ever seen a primal before most likely. But our character has seen many. The instance we're out of the echo and see Gunhilder manifest we should have thrown up a shield like we do later. But no the story has to story and make us and the blades look more inept than Tataru with her carbuncle.

[Kesey]

This right here. You're telling me the very fast rogue/ninja couldn't have ran over to Mikoto right after she was kicked down to us? Or how about when she's again kicked away from Misija? Hell the fact that no one tries to react when the blades are being formed and everyone just stands there? It's one thing for our character to act how they normally act. It's a completely different thing when npcs do so. Yes I do understand that you could say the Blades were stunned as they hadn't ever seen a primal before most likely. But our character has seen many. The instance we're out of the echo and see Gunhilder manifest we should have thrown up a shield like we do later. But no the story has to story and make us and the blades look more inept than Tataru with her carbuncle.

The Blades did want to react and were told to stand down by the commander.