Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[reivaxe]

No one said they were designed to be androgynous or not.

That's the point, they're not androgynous which makes basing a different gender on them far more difficult.

For example, they added in Thighlanders and Cat Bois in the game along with Femroe .... I'm 100% sure they didn't take male highlanders and turn them into women nor did that take kitty girls model and make a dude outta it. That would be a lot more effort and not really logical when you have boy/ girl middies you can use as the base.

So yeah, it's cheaper, easier and faster to make Femroe from a middie base over trying to take a male gorilla shaped model and turn it into something that's gonna need a ton of custom work if you want it to look good.

You answered it again. We are not asking for them to be tall or big as female Roegadyns. Just similar but improved body that fits to scale with male Hrothgar and maybe shorter. Even if not as big and beefy, male Hrothgar are more defined and heroic than stansard customisable khajits. But now, we might have females be less of a beastial race than khajit females.

The bolded you point to ...
"Beast race with better looking big body from the Roebro that would look more appealing and heroic/ ideal in armor than their current big race at the time"

That's ... a taller Thighlander. A Thighlander is a more appealing/ heroic/ ideal female bodyshape for a "strong, athletic, action hero female". As someone who has played Femroe for like 5 years I must say that I do love them BUT glamming them is a mini-game with-in it's self. About 60% of tops are a hard pass for ME cause they either look bad on them or flat out make them look like dudes.

Doing the things that change that would result in something like a Thighlander. It would result in that art work (slimmer/ shoulders not wider than their hips/ great hips-to-waist difference). It would result in that custom bod for spoiler. If you make something that's smaller than Femroe, that's not as buff as Femroe, and wears gear better than Femroe you're going to get a more conventionally attractive female shape.

I think the disconnect here is the word "appealing".

It's just another word for "conventionally attractive and pleasing to the eye" really.

If you want something like this you're basically asking for something as buff as Femroe or buffer given the torso girth. That's completely within your right, I just don't think it's something they would do given the natural of how they went about making Hrothgar males.

The Males lack most of the defining features of Ronso and are more along the lines of Bara lion dads. Thinner waist, shorter shoulder span and hunched over. I like these traits mind you but many do not like the...uninspired job of female Ronso and want something similar to male Hrothgar. A strong heroic-masculine but alluring female with a curved trapezoid bod. Not a small, pinup she hulk with cat ears and maybe a snout.

Well, like, they legit advertised them as "HEY, you can make a Ronso!" and call them Ronso on the first. You may not think they are that connected but SE sure made that connection.

And IDK how many people are out here screaming for "strong heroic-masculine but alluring female with a curved trapezoid bod". Unlike Male Viera they don't get much fan art fantasies for them. There's like a handful of art for them and most of it goes all over the place. So lil infact that I have told people in this very thread to look up Tabaxi females to fill that void in their heart. Likely cause there's not really a mystery behind it.

And apparently they wanted a reptilian race in this game (scalies) but what do we know? JRPGs originally were inspired by ultima and D&D, tastes change especially when promoting your product onto a world market. And if taste, how are they changed and when do they shift? Just because people play specific genres doesn't mean they're fully inclined in enjoying all asthetics or text of it but just stay for gameplay.

A fit woman (not ones building "moviestar muscles") would have less breast tissue as they curve and not show much on the front. Female lions don't have human tits, so don't put big tits on female hrothgar, simple as that (http://imgur.com/a/nUgehX7)

I can't speak as to how happy people are with the Draggos as they are, I can only say that they're not my cup-of-joe but they're hella popular as is.

Anyway, Hrothgar are not Charr. Hrothgar are more human than cat ... so saying "Female lions don't have human tits" doesn't really fly here. And again, you seem to just be asking for Femroe ... but flat chested Femroe. Which is your right, I just don't get acting like that's not what you're asking for.

A body with little to no meat on it. I can take her arms off and slap the castrum bosses silly with those noodles. Neither empowering or daring, just something to slap on a magazine. The other option is just as lazy and still had little to lose when its involved with Hrothgars and Roegadyns.

You have your taste, you can be disappointed if you want. That's cool.

Personally?
Looks pretty much how I envisioned them body wise save for some possible Draggo rug pull move where they legit just make them slightly taller kitty girls with animal heads. Also, given the freedom the males have in head shape I don't think the females would be limited to having any particular cat head so they could by all means lean in on smaller cat types for more female looking faces.

[AnAverageAspie]

I'm 100% sure they didn't take male highlanders and turn them into women nor did that take kitty girls model and make a dude outta it.
So yeah, it's cheaper, easier and faster to make Femroe from a middie base over trying to take a male gorilla shaped model and turn it into something that's gonna need a ton of custom work

And rather than making a new model we now have the thighlander/femroe conundrum of mapped emote animations, I gave this option whether I dislike it or not. But handling a masculine but unpopular male model, pinching the middle of waist, shrinking biceps and legs while sliding shoulders to make a more boxy beastial version of Abby (tlou2) won't flood the office with sweat. Nor is handling the middie model the same way starting from femroe with the sad caveat of girly animations.

That's ... a taller Thighlander. A Thighlander is a more appealing/ heroic/ ideal female bodyshape for a "strong, athletic, action hero female". As someone who has played Femroe for like 5 years I must say that I do love them BUT glamming them is a mini-game with-in it's self. About 60% of tops are a hard pass for ME cause they either look bad on them or flat out make them look like dudes.

I think the disconnect here is the word "appealing".

It's just another word for "conventionally attractive and pleasing to the eye" really.

Hey, its a head/neck clip show when I dress up my character so I get that ;3
But "Thighlanders" are a cartoonish/seductive/crass form of the amazoness fantasy design that was copy pasted on illustrated covers/panels of Heavy Metal comics that were also alongside new high fantasy illustrations of Conan. Not masculine or heroic enough to be a serious representation of a beastial race and the last of the late 20th century's representation of women that needs to go.

Fatter woman were more "appealing" for royalty and motherly attractions and we used to call younger children of any gender girls. Whats appealing, descriptive or desirable of gender changes very quickly so I wouldn't recommend using it to make a point on beauty standards.

Well, like, they legit advertised them as "HEY, you can make a Ronso!" and call them Ronso on the first. You may not think they are that connected but SE sure made that connection.

There's like a handful of art for them and most of it goes all over the place. So lil infact that I have told people in this very thread to look up Tabaxi females to fill that void in their heart. Likely cause there's not really a mystery behind it.

I can't speak as to how happy people are with the Draggos as they are, I can only say that they're not my cup-of-joe but they're hella popular as is.

When 1/4 of the race can be somewhat of a "Ronso", while 1/14th of the universe thats not even the source, calls them "Ronso". You can imagine the betrayal or lack of respect of an existing race when they just dropped Viera into the game minus the feet. But sure, let's take more from Ronso and catgirls with female Hrothgars to never legit compete with miqote.

Tabaxis please me greatly but don't try and lie to us that we're garuntee female Hrothgars looking like them when we have murals of them looking like anime Mrs Watersons.

Yes, the race that's a drastic turn from the more bold concept arts but we must "Think of the head gear!" And the current race that's popular for its smaller females, horn clipping be damned.

Anyway, Hrothgar are not Charr. Hrothgar are more human than cat ...

I only mentioned two fantasy races ever in this discussion. And none were Charr. Nobody here is asking for that besides a even more vocal minority that's looking at dimorphism for male Hrothgar into the opposite direction (Bara lion dad males with beastly zodd females)

Personally?
Looks pretty much how I envisioned them body wise save for some possible Draggo rug pull move where they legit just make them slightly taller kitty girls with animal heads. Also, given the freedom the males have in head shape I don't think the females would be limited to having any particular cat head so they could by all means lean in on smaller cat types for more female looking faces.

Thats the only silver lining I see. Either the custom model was to retain the Buddhist elegance (ppl think the primal will morph to ashura from ffiv)
While consistent on a Female Roegadyn (maybe 6.0 being character creator update and body adjustments?).
Or to make a bigger leap, Female Hrothgar would have the hyur/highlander treatment where the shrine maiden Helions are more about that trad beauty while The Lost have a more beastial look and bigger body that rivals male Hrothgar. Using the middie model for two different body types respective to their clan.

[Iscah]

I may wade into this more deeply later, but for now I'll say that I saw the scene with the "custom model" Roegadyn and I don't think it looks right. The proportions are off and her arms look really thin. Also it's worth noting that the body model is "equipped" as part of the clothing so it's not exactly that they've built a special model for her but that every character with unique clothing can have a customised body shape built into it. (See: Minfilia.)

Also the mural of female Hrothgar is what I would have expected - and I wouldn't take it to indicate that they don't have a more beastly hunched-over posture in life. The males are quite capable of standing upright or not as they feel like it, and a stylised mural is going to look much better with them viewed straight-on and not bent over.

[AnAverageAspie]

That makes much more sense, I completely forgot gear can map on specific body shapes ala 2Bottoms

[reivaxe]

And rather than making a new model we now have the thighlander/femroe conundrum of mapped emote animations...

That's only a conundrum for Femroe, thighlanders are human and have explicitly goofy/ expressive/ "extra" and flat out troll emotes unique to them that build their identity. So yeah, seeing them do any number of girly emotes shared by other females isn't jarring in the least for me. They're made in a way where that type of stuff works, prob one of if not the most flexible females when it comes to looking either tough as f or traditionally goofy or feminine.


When I potioned to Thighlander the girlish giggle at the end of the Toast emote or the Sch scribble didn't hit me in any off-putting way cause their /pose hits just the same. Lots of their personal emotes have that energy. But when I was Femroe? It was jarring AF and highly disappointing like many of their shared emotes/ stances since everything about them is pretty much "BIG and strong".

But "Thighlanders" are a cartoonish/seductive/crass form of the amazoness fantasy design that was copy pasted on illustrated covers/panels of Heavy Metal comics that were also alongside new high fantasy illustrations of Conan. Not masculine or heroic enough to be a serious representation of a beastial race and the last of the late 20th century's representation of women that needs to go..

Imma have to hit ya with a "That's just like, your opinion, man"

Like I said, you do you. If that's what you want and you're disappointed with how things seem to be going then so be it.

Personally? I do NOT think a beast race has to look ... masculine. I don't think there's anything inherently masculine about having an animal head or looking part animal. (TBH I have no idea where that logic comes from with you but like I said ... you do you, not my job to change your mind on that).

Gonna have to cut this here as I find obsessive talk about personal preference in body shape for fictional character models to be fairly gross. (it's Viera Male thread tier gross)

I posted those images because it's actual new lore and insight into what they look like in a game/ game world that refused to give us much of anything to go off of until now so maybe it would please other people who want them playable. Few people bother talking about what they think they would look like from what I can see, with the common thought being Animal Heads on Femroe which prob doesn't spark much excitement.

Welp, now we have a side by side comparison.

Also it's worth noting that the body model is "equipped" as part of the clothing so it's not exactly that they've built a special model for her but that every character with unique clothing can have a customised body shape built into it. (See: Minfilia.)

... No clue what you're getting at. This isn't a clothing option in game that anyone can wear nor is my calling it a "custom model" to imply that this game isn't a building-blocks sim when it come to character models. We're all very much aware of that.

Story behind this is legit patch before last people data mined the game, saw a female model that didn't match the body shape of any female and used Femroe textures but had no head and clearly had the clothing of the Queen from the Save the Queen title card ... and it used Femroe scaling system to make the model 11ft tall. People naturally assumed this was some kinda Hrothgar Queen Primal thing. Now, after seeing what it is, I just call it a custom model cause that's what it is. It's a Femroe after she took in a primal made of people's adoration for the Queen (who most often were Female Hrothgar) and she even gets cat eyes at the end. It's legit a unique character as of now, that's it.

As for hunch I think that's a non-starter for the simple fact that breast + hunch is baaaad on a design level

[AnAverageAspie]

That's only a conundrum for Femroe, thighlanders are human and have explicitly goofy/ expressive/ "extra" and flat out troll emotes unique to them that build their identity. They're made in a way where that type of stuff works, prob one of if not the most flexible females when it comes to looking either tough as or traditionally goofy or feminine.

But when I was Femroe? It was jarring AF and highly disappointing like many of their shared emotes/ stances since everything about them is pretty much "BIG and strong

Why does the literal masculine race doing that worry you more than the contextually masculine race? Highlanders are the hyur warriors who survived through thick & thin up north, fighting against the empire day in and out till they lost and became war torn slaves, refugees or boot licking loyalists. There are exceptions to the rule that go against the lore and culture. But besides player choice, these emotes are deemed out of character.

Imma have to hit ya with a "That's just like, your opinion, man"

So ill jot your evasion and fixation down as, "non argument"

Personally? I do NOT think a beast race has to look ... masculine. I don't think there's anything inherently masculine about having an animal head or looking part animal. I find obsessive talk about personal preference in body shape for fictional character models to be fairly gross. (it's Viera Male thread tier gross)

AGAIN with this, nobody said a beast race is or has to look or be masculine. Stop running with things out of context. The feline race you recommend is agile and cunning though masculine in action rather than appearance or physical prowess, we like it. But SE made a "Bestial" race with masculine traits in physicality and cultural. Even I question them making a monetorist or capital driven society in bozja when the males hunched look imply a race that keeps his center of gravity on uneven terrain unless it was just recent. You're the one throwing "appealing" around to push beauty standards while some actually read the lore/pr the devs write who might possibly contradict or retcon. Its pathetic.

I posted those images because it's actual new lore and insight into what they look like in a game/ game world that refused to give us much of anything to go off of until now

...which prob doesn't spark much excitement.

Majority of what you posted in this discussion we had is familiar material that people can see on the character creation screen, yes. But the devs absence or rarely mentioning of any updates for a brand new race give the player base justification to link pieces together and have a right to question new material, especially when its technically locked out from most of the playerbase.

Probably? Or, it doesn't spark much excitement...for you.

*PatchMinePatchMine, Burden of proof in my court*

Fixed

[reivaxe]

Why does the literal masculine race doing that worry you more than the contextually masculine race?

... WTF is a "Masculine race"?

Masculinity is a social construct, different between culture/ time periods and animal type. There's no such thing as a "masculine race/ species" so I have no clue what you're going on about..

AGAIN with this, nobody said a beast race is or has to look or be masculine. Stop running with things out of context.

"A strong heroic-masculine but alluring female with a curved trapezoid bod.
/Female lions don't have human tits, so don't put big tits on female hrothgar, simple as that"

I'm not sure how you read that but that's what you said. At the very least you seem to think having an animal head = "shouldn't have xyz features on human body". I REALLY don't get your deal with using the word masculine to describe everything. Maybe you should use the word "muscular"? Maybe that's what you mean? Roe are a "muscular" race after all.

You're the one throwing "appealing" around to push beauty standards while some actually read the lore/pr the devs write who might possibly contradict or retcon. Its pathetic.

Hmm?
I actually read what the devs said and look at what's in the game.
Yoshi P is the one who said the Hrothgar are "well-suited to armour/ have a heroic look" back when they were revealed last year. Looking at them in game that's clearly the case.

I'm not interested in a subbing out reality for what I want to see or making assumptions on how something would/ should look like based on general lore, I make every effort to build theories based on data we have on hand.
That includes reading what the devs have said about male Hrothgar, looking at patterns in how other females are designed, using what knowledge I have about character design and modeling/ rigging and so on.

The simple fact that you suggest that it would be "easier" to make a woman out of a Male Roe body rig tells me everything I need to know about how little thought you put into this. You want what you want. It's fine to want what you want, but don't try to pass it as objective.

Probably? Or, it doesn't spark much excitement...for you.

IDK if you're reading my post but .... HELLO, I've played Femroe for like 5 years of playing this game. They're currently my 2nd fav female race pick 2nd only to Thighlanders (Which I will go back to when ever this game releases curly hair styles so I can have a hair style that feels "right" for a black character ... which prob wont happen so rip my black goddess fantasy). For YEARS I hated that this wasn't what Draggo girls were . In fact, the only reason I changed from Femroe was to play the ShB MSQ as Hrothgar cause I love anthros and expressive animation. I started trying other races again after that cause I don't like dude characters enough to give up all I got on my main.

That being said, I know for a fact that Femroe are the least played anything in this game by a huge margin so seems clear to me that just like with Hrothgar males and Viera females ANY attempt to make Male Viera/ Female Hrothgar will be an attempt to better appeal to players in a way that Roe/ Elezen failed to do.
I also know that Female Hrothgar get very lil fan art (so lil that I've many times in this thread posted fan art from D&D to help give people something to look at) and when asked people figure they already know what they would look like, pointing to Ronso model.

I don't even think I've ever expressed to you what I would personally want them to look like ... cause what I personally want doesn't matter as much as a talking point to me as trying to parse what the devs will actually do.
And it seems they went the direction I thought they would.

[Nestama]

I'm just gonna parrot what I said before (multiple times) in this thread: just give female Hrothgars the same treatment as the males and do not make them a 2.0 (or 3.0) of an already existing female. I genuinely do not want them to just be another version of Miqo'te, Au Ra and/or Viera :/

[reivaxe]

I'm just gonna parrot what I said before (multiple times) in this thread: just give female Hrothgars the same treatment as the males and do not make them a 2.0 (or 3.0) of an already existing female. I genuinely do not want them to just be another version of Miqo'te, Au Ra and/or Viera :/

Don't think there's much to worry about on that, they try not to make copies when they add races. All new races fill a hole in this line up to some extent.

[AnAverageAspie]

... WTF is a "Masculine race"?

A race with masculine traits. Heroic, strong, built, dependable, loyal, assertive, etc. 2-3 of those were chosen or pinned when making male Hrothgar. And I think we both want that for female Hrothgar too since masculinity doesn't and shouldn't be pigeonholed under a specific sex/gender.

I'm not sure how you read that but that's what you said. At the very least you seem to think having an animal head = "shouldn't have xyz features on human body"

What I said is not the law for all fantasy races but for the observational design and concept of what SE made for Hrothgar. You didn't cover the full quote either. Due to SE making one with masculine traits, it would make sense for some consistency.
And the other comment in context was towards your argument. Because it being a female race, you assume she needs or is expected to have tits even if we go with the route of modeling it after Roegadyn or middie model adjusted to femroe.

I actually read what the devs said and look at what's in the game.
The simple fact that you suggest that it would be "easier" to make a woman out of a Male Roe body rig tells me everything I need to know about how little thought you put into this. You want what you want. It's fine to want what you want, but don't try to pass it as objective.

Ditto. But try and look at the subtext once in awhile. There is almost no assumption when what we have for the concept is right on the mossaic. This is...or was, a discussion on the idea the devs lied on the advertised concept and/or falling back into generic routine of race design. You and I have the same collected information. You and I see the mundane pattern with the mosaic setting it in stone. All we can really speculate is if they'll have a animal head or not.

I never said it would be easier. I said both choices were lazy with one being more interesting and possibly groundbreaking with little to lose.
Rigging a middie to adapt the concept of femroe into a more improved shorter body with animal/domestic feline head.
Or rig a Roegadyn body in making a female Hrothgar that isn't trying to be curvy or very feminine due to the model, but goes against stereotypes of feminine traits/beauty that stands out from the other female races.

IDK if you're reading my post but .... HELLO, I've played Femroe for like 5 years of playing this game. They're currently my 2nd fav female race pick 2nd only to Thighlanders. In fact, the only reason I changed from Femroe was to play the ShB MSQ as Hrothgar cause I love anthros and expressive animation.

Highlander from the start of ps3 beta in 2013. Made a "Guts" looking character, deleted it and my old account to make a newer one for Stormblood. I didn't think I wanted a anthro/furry race until the SHB fanfest showing which caused extreme backlash but I was still impressed. It was the "new" content that broke the mold even if Hrothgar and Viera were gender locked and had harder time with headgear. But even when the devs said it was an attempt at a "bestiel" race and how it was vaguely inspired from Ronso due to memory limitations, I was still worried a female version would just copy female Ronso. And here we are, a year after a livestream stating they wanted Hrothgar(implied as just male) to not appear like the Roe/Miqote/Viera. A mossaic mural that has them looking like tall midlander miqote. Creativity down the tubes and harder justification in defending the race.

ANY attempt to make Male Viera/ Female Hrothgar will be an attempt to better appeal to players in a way that Roe/ Elezen failed to do.
I also know that Female Hrothgar get very lil fan art
I don't even think I've ever expressed to you what I would personally want them to look like

By all means, do that....not taller neko catgirls with only a bit of meat on their thighs excused with vague feline facial detail. Its a complete contradictiom from your idea of player appeal and trying not to make copies. When male Hrothgar was something unique yet an improvement on a existing unpopular race. DO that with female Hrothgar. Female miqote/au ra will still be the most playable while this race stays in the bottom of the well alongside Roegadyn and Elezen.

You're not that hard to read on what you probably wanted them to look like. Someone disappointed in their looks wouldn't be this fixated in arguing with someone who's disappointed but slowly subsiding their dissatisfaction into acceptance.