Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[AnAverageAspie]

Since my problems are based on the cutscene, ill hide my comment

I feel like I'm definitely jaded or disappointed with the possible *look* of female Hrothgars in the mural. Yes, the female shrine roe and even primal Gunnhildr are not an exact representation (the later seems to be a slimmer/curvy femroe model than what's possible to customize) But unless we see male races in other murals then its just a theory rather than an artistic exaggeration like with historical paintings or dolls that emphasize proportions of females.

Harshist nitpick INCOMING:
They all look like anime avatars of Mrs Watterson from Gumball :/. I defend male Hrothgars existence being a much more niche but necessary branch for race variety compared to the miqote. But here comes a stone mural that might show a glimpse of female Hrothgars as miqote elezens with different ears; it really doesn't give me room to defend the race anymore.
The Devs wanted a beastial race...so why only have 1/2 of the race be that? Just use the femroe model with adjusted mesh and unique but similar face to male Hrothgar, so now 2 races have linked gear assets with their respective genders. The concept in the mural looks lazy yet such a try hard attempt to differentiate, that even I don't know this would work for the better besides joining female hrothgars gear assets with fem mid Hyur, Elezen, Miqote and Au Ra.
My only silver lining is that either shrine female Hrothgars might just be slim and less Beastial, with the Lost clan females being more bestial with their colder fur color pallet (Miqote, Au Ra and Eleven do this but not to such an extreme idea like I'm thinking of). Or the nose details are just not properly detailed. They're slanted eyes fit with a more wild variety of feline but a human/curved nose just wouldn't work well without the lion snout and jaw. Ill just have to imagine the possibility that will never be ;(
http://imgur.com/a/nUgehX7

[AmalahRose]

Personally I love the build, if that's a rough idea of what we could expect I would definately fantasia one of my characters. Also, their faces do look cat-like to me. Maybe house cat rather than big cat. But definately animal.

[reivaxe]

Well if they ever do add FemHroths(?) (Femgars?) it's likely they'll be based on an existing race. I thought they might build them from Femroes, but maybe they will start with Highlanders or Elezen?

I've been saying for a long time now that they wouldn't alter the Femroe Body for the Female Hrothgar IF they ever made them.

That's because outside of Lala-females ALL females are built from the Middie base. For w/e reason when they added Femroe to the game in 2.0 they didn't base them off of Roebro bod. That would have resulted in a wide and prob very curvy/ burly build that would be so different from every female that they would have to have custom animations to avoid clipping and such just like how Roebros (and now Hrothgar) have different emotes and stances and such. Also part of the reason Femroe are cursed to have girly animations like the Toast emote, they don't get custom animations.

I've always been of the mind that, just like with Viera, even if they did want to make another "tall-n-strong female" they would just start from middie again (to make them more pleasing just like how Male Hrothgar have a better looking bod compared to Roebros) ... cause basing a copy of a concept from a less popular/ successful copy makes lil sense. Elezen suffer to this day because in 1.0 the devs didn't know how to properly scale the middie model/ rig to have the right proportions to get the look they wanted and this carried over into 2.0. This is why so many Elezen NPCs with custom heads look better, they fixed the problem for them. This is why Viera and Drago bois look so much better in ever way compared to Elezen (and Viera faces are HQ af compared to every race), over the years the people working on this game have improved by miles compared to 1.0 days.

That's why I assume they're doing what they're doing with the Bojza Femroe(s).

Looking beyond the fact that Mizija is in this story basically only cause they can't use female Hrothgar, I noticed something. When I was max slider Femroe I noticed that Mizija wasn't as tall as me which I thought was interesting. Seemed decently shorter than a max slider Femroe to basically fill the seat of a female Hrothgar I thought (cause Hrothgar males are NOT as tall as Femroe can be). Then we get this patch and lore with the art and we see her ancestor who has her same head but a clearly non-femroe body model but is also the same height. The devs know how Femroe look, they know how to make them ... they chose to give her ancestor a custom body that looks far more appealing and that may be because they're using them as stand ins for Female Hrothgar.

This all, to me at least, reaffirms that if they ever do female Hrothgar they won't make them animal headed femroe.
Tis why I always say I feel like they would be taller Highlanders ... cause a "better looking" version of a tall, strong woman compared to a Femroe would look like a thighlander. But if this all I'm looking at is to point to anything they may be going for a thighlander mixed Viera/ elezen build?

[Syln]

I need that so badly, looking forward the next digital fan festival to see this, since story wise it will become more and more absurd not to show any female Rothgar even though they made some plot stunt by making the latest Bozjan queen a female Roe.

As i see it, it's only a matter of time since after all they only said it would be the last time they add a new races so gender unlocking is still a possibily (as they did for miqo'te and roegadyn.)

[Calixis]

My question is if female Hrothgar were mostly shrine maidens and queens, then what happened to them? Did they die in the castle? Where are these new baby Hrothgar of newer generations from? Are the rebels hiding female Hrothgar?

Considering we've now met multiple Hrothgar men who've had wives and children with no implication it's anything but monogamous, the women don't sound like they're 'that' rare, or at least as rare as Miqo'te men. It could just be something was lost in proverbial translation when someone wrote those quests though (because there's no easier motivation for Plucky Freedom Fighters than Dead Family).

[Roda]

Well if they ever do add FemHroths(?) (Femgars?) it's likely they'll be based on an existing race. I thought they might build them from Femroes, but maybe they will start with Highlanders or Elezen?

I believe the term is Hrothgals.

And I'm just gonna say the cop-out completely sapped my life force when i got to it. D;

[AnAverageAspie]

Edit: This comment of mine seems a bit too heated. I genuinely apologize but still appreciate and accept all comments. Just know I don't direct my issues towards users. I'm a bit too passionate over this and I'll mellow out.

I've been saying for a long time now that they wouldn't alter the Femroe Body for the Female Hrothgar IF they ever made them.

That's because outside of Lala-females ALL females are built from the Middie base. For w/e reason when they added Femroe to the game in 2.0 they didn't base them off of Roebro bod. That would have resulted in a wide and prob very curvy/ burly build that would be so different from every female that they would have to have custom animations to avoid clipping and such just like how Roebros (and now Hrothgar) have different emotes and stances and such. Also part of the reason Femroe are cursed to have girly animations like the Toast emote, they don't get custom animations.

I've always been of the mind that, just like with Viera, even if they did want to make another "tall-n-strong female" they would just start from middie again (to make them more pleasing just like how Male Hrothgar have a better looking bod compared to Roebros) ... cause basing a copy of a concept from a less popular/ successful copy makes lil sense.

Tis why I always say I feel like they would be taller Highlanders ... cause a "better looking" version of a tall, strong woman compared to a Femroe would look like a thighlander. But if this all I'm looking at is to point to anything they may be going for a thighlander mixed Viera/ elezen build?

You kind of explained the reason why they didn't base females off the male Roegadyn. The Stances and emotes though on initial releases are generally exclusive to the race in question while they map newer emotes to a specific animation for males or females minus changes on lalas. Roegadyn's are less popular yet that didn't stop them from using the model for Hrothgar and not something like Highlanders. Some just want a consistency with how models are used for the races and to end the extreme dimorphism between genders after the worried launch of Au Ra.

Even female highlanders don't use their own model and they barely fit with the theme of that clan since they have more girly emotes and run animations unique to them. They have a male Hrothgar model done. Mapping gearsets and assets to male Roegadyn that still made it an impressive concept despite the horrid character customization in regards to hair and programming for head pieces. For consistency sake, either adjust the Middie model to make them as close as Female Roegadyns at the cost of mapping girly emotes and animations to them.

Or...hear me out, adjust the mesh on male Hrothgar to make female Hrothgars under the male Roegadyn body to map gear, assets and emotes to them. We do this with lalafels with very rare chances of custom designed gears for females. Either way is the lazy choice but the theory is that they're going with the Middie model to not follow Femroes, which would adjust them to look better like how male Hrothgars are with Maleroes. But, rather a vastly different concept to what the males look like. The mural and Gunnhildr's custom model makes them look possibly dimorphic as neko catgirls and it might be Au Ra syndrome all over again for this advertised "Bestial" race.

SE might make Female Hrothgars with closer head models to middie face models of races rather than use the custom faces they have with male Hrothgar to make female ones. They are putting in work to stick with the tired tradition of bestial males alongside slim human looking females, when the community is giving them advice to do it lazier but faithful to the races concept while against the grain of fantasy race design. A random initial reaction is, "ew, that's a disgusting idea. I'm not gonna play that race". Well, majority of players are not playing Roegadyns (M/F) nor Hrothgar anyway (Japan's least played race/gender is female Roegadyn. That may have answered my question too ^^, team is advertising the race as something for character diversity, the diversity is that they're bestial, so why lie about it when making female Hrothgar?

[Lihtleita]

I've been saying for a long time now that they wouldn't alter the Femroe Body for the Female Hrothgar IF they ever made them.

That's because outside of Lala-females ALL females are built from the Middie base. For w/e reason when they added Femroe to the game in 2.0 they didn't base them off of Roebro bod. That would have resulted in a wide and prob very curvy/ burly build that would be so different from every female that they would have to have custom animations to avoid clipping and such just like how Roebros (and now Hrothgar) have different emotes and stances and such. Also part of the reason Femroe are cursed to have girly animations like the Toast emote, they don't get custom animations.

femroes sharing emotes/mount positions with midlander ladies and not roes/hroth are the bane of my existance. i hope from the bottom of my heart that the reveal confirms hrothgals and femroes are similar enough in looks for that switch to be believable.

[reivaxe]

You kind of explained the reason why they didn't base females off the male Roegadyn. The Stances and emotes though on initial releases are generally exclusive to the race in question while they map newer emotes to a specific animation for males or females minus changes on lalas. Roegadyn's are less popular yet that didn't stop them from using the model for Hrothgar and not something like Highlanders. Some just want a consistency with how models are used for the races and to end the extreme dimorphism between genders after the worried launch of Au Ra.

Oh, I wasn't asking a question so much as trying not to speak for the companies decisions with guess work that I can't back up. to ME it's clear why they did it from a design and culture PoV.

Lots of stuff..

1- lalas have the same model regardless of gender. I'm fairly sure they don't even have bones for the female "breast" cause of how small they are. So it's likely not that hard making gear for them as "what fits this cute meat ball model would fit the other gender". Roe are not like that. They were never designed to be androgynous, they were clearly FF14's version of the FF11 Galka which were male only. So they're big and hyper masculine ... making any possible female version using that base rig need to have extensive effort to pull off. You can't make easy alterations to the RoeBro model to have an appealing female, making Femroe based on the middie model is cheaper and easier.

2- The reason Femroe look the way they do is because it's the closest to Roebro they can get with the middie female model with out making them "fat" or wide. They still want to have some level of conventionally attractive female so yeah ... they don't get the gorilla proportions or girth of the males. They look the most masculine of females but they have the biggest tits in an effort to balance it out and soften them. TBH after to the Au Ra the Roe have the worse case of dimorphism in the game as they don't even share general body shapes. Femroe look that different from Roebros to me.


As for why they made Hrothgar off of Roe instead of Highlanders...
1- That feeds into "copy of a copy". Highlanders are based on Middies, so they would just use middies as a base.
2- They wanted to make a 2nd "BIG" race like the Roebros. If what you want is another big, wide, hyper masculine race (2nd attempt to please fans of that body type) to push the beastly poses and persona you want to give them it makes far more sense to just use the unique Roe Rig/ model as a starting point over making 1 from middies. If what they wanted was something like the lupin then yeah, use the middie model to make something like that. But as it stands, looking at the end result ... yeah, you don't get that easily from starting with middies. We can only assume Hrothgar as they are are what the devs wanted.

For consistency sake, either adjust the Middie model to make them as close as Female Roegadyns at the cost of mapping girly emotes and animations to them.

What point would there be in taking a middie body and trying to make Femroe 2? Their goal with Hrothgar were to make a Beast race with better looking big body from the Roebro that would look more appealing and heroic/ ideal in armor than their current big race at the time (this is what they said actually. They wanted Hrothgar to have a more heroic shape/ proportions and said they would look better in armor than Roe). Roe are still by far the biggest, tallest race with the biggest muscles. This is their thing, their main trait.

I think that the key trait to Hrothgar is NOT being the biggest or buffest race (again, that's Roe's thing ... Hrothgar aren't even allowed to be the 2nd tallest males) but more so "Beastly people with appealing fantasy frames". Like how Au Ra are clearly reptilian east Asian people who were more beastly than any other option at the time ... that's the core trait/ theme there. They don't both have to be taller than Elezen or shorter than kitties to hit this theme which is why the devs were ok with the extreme dimorphism (the females were based on JPop star body types iirc. They decided to make the males tall and handsome though).

That's been an on-going undercurrent of my discourse with some people's views in this thread. I don't see Hrothgar as an attempt to make Roe ... I see them as an attempt (successful attempt IMO) to make an attractive big beastly race that's based on Ronso. The whole reason Femroe are the tallest and buffest (resulting in them appearing as the most masculine looking) option for females is because being "biggest and buffest" is the Roe's thing, it's their key trait. Hrothgar are not as tall nor as big nor as muscular as Roebros and they are more attractive than them so I've never gotten the idea as to why their females would have to look like Femroe or "as close as you can!".

Or...hear me out, adjust the mesh on male Hrothgar to make female Hrothgars under the male Roegadyn body to map gear, assets and emotes to them. We do this with lalafels

Oh, no.
Already addressed this up top.
Lalas are basically like cute toddle people. Sure, a boy and girl toddle can easily look gender fluid because they lack the core traits of what comes from puberty ... but it's way harder dressing up a full grown body builder male (with the hyper masculine fantasy of the inverted triangle bod) to look like a female and have that look "good".

SE might make Female Hrothgars with closer head models to middie face models of races rather than use the custom faces they have with male Hrothgar to make female ones. They are putting in work to stick with the tired tradition of bestial males alongside slim human looking females, when the community is giving them advice to do it lazier but faithful to the races concept while against the grain of fantasy race design. A random initial reaction is, "ew, that's a disgusting idea. I'm not gonna play that race". Well, majority of players are not playing Roegadyns (M/F) nor Hrothgar anyway (Japan's least played race/gender is female Roegadyn. That may have answered my question too ^^, team is advertising the race as something for character diversity, the diversity is that they're bestial, so why lie about it when making female Hrothgar?

Funny, I actually wonder if they may "right their wrongs" by making Male Viera and Female Hrothgar have kitty style heads so that they can have hair and head gear that work how it does on kitty characters instead of dealing with w/e they have to deal with for the current half races.

Anyway, no, it's not "lazier" to take the male model/ rig from Roe to make a female. That's actually harder than using a middie. And IDK how many people are seriously asking for Female Hrothgar to be ... Male Hrothgar with tits.
As for popularity, Femroe are the least played anything in this game for any region ... THIGHLANDERS are the 2nd least played female. Shockingly, people who play a JRPG have certain common taste in females though this game isn't fully focused on that with every option.

As for the Female Hrothgar art ... it's pretty much exactly what I thought they would be. It acts as a direct comparison between Femroe and a possible Female Hrothgar. It's exactly what I thought it would be for the most part ... they are depicted as being smaller than Femroe, slimmer than Femroe with more attractive proportions (shoulders aren't wider than their hips, hip to waist ratios is more appealing to). This is also reflected in the spoiler woman custom body.

[AnAverageAspie]

They were never designed to be androgynous, they were clearly FF14's version of the FF11 Galka which were male only. So they're big and hyper masculine

No one said they were designed to be androgynous or not.
Which are a downgrade from the Galka who have tails and more gruff face to fit their orc inspiration

What point would there be in taking a middie body and trying to make Femroe 2? Their goal with Hrothgar were to make a Beast race with better looking big body from the Roebro that would look more appealing and heroic/ ideal in armor than their current big race at the time. Roe are still by far the biggest, tallest race with the biggest muscles. This is their thing, their main trait.

You answered it again. We are not asking for them to be tall or big as female Roegadyns. Just similar but improved body that fits to scale with male Hrothgar and maybe shorter. Even if not as big and beefy, male Hrothgar are more defined and heroic than stansard customisable khajits. But now, we might have females be less of a beastial race than khajit females.

I see them as an attempt (successful attempt IMO) to make an attractive big beastly race that's based on Ronso.
but it's way harder dressing up a full grown body builder male (with the hyper masculine fantasy of the inverted triangle bod)

The Males lack most of the defining features of Ronso and are more along the lines of Bara lion dads. Thinner waist, shorter shoulder span and hunched over. I like these traits mind you but many do not like the...uninspired job of female Ronso and want something similar to male Hrothgar. A strong heroic-masculine but alluring female with a curved trapezoid bod. Not a small, pinup she hulk with cat ears and maybe a snout.

Funny, I actually wonder if they may "right their wrongs" by making Male Viera and Female Hrothgar have kitty style heads so that they can have hair and head gear that work how it does on kitty characters instead of dealing with w/e they have to deal with for the current half races.

Hair and ears are a equivalent head piece where the community found ways to bypass it with mapping the headgear onto earrings and not have to wrap them along the outside of the head. I think it would be more along the lines of, "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".

Anyway, no, it's not "lazier" to take the male model/ rig from Roe to make a female. That's actually harder than using a middie. And IDK how many people are seriously asking for Female Hrothgar to be ... Male Hrothgar with tits.
As for popularity, Femroe are the least played anything in this game for any region ... THIGHLANDERS are the 2nd least played female. Shockingly, people who play a JRPG have certain common taste in females though this game isn't fully focused on that with every option.

And apparently they wanted a reptilian race in this game (scalies) but what do we know? JRPGs originally were inspired by ultima and D&D, tastes change especially when promoting your product onto a world market. And if taste, how are they changed and when do they shift? Just because people play specific genres doesn't mean they're fully inclined in enjoying all asthetics or text of it but just stay for gameplay.

A fit woman (not ones building "moviestar muscles") would have less breast tissue as they curve and not show much on the front. Female lions don't have human tits, so don't put big tits on female hrothgar, simple as that (http://imgur.com/a/nUgehX7)

As for the Female Hrothgar art...they are depicted as being smaller than Femroe, slimmer than Femroe with more attractive proportions (shoulders aren't wider than their hips, hip to waist ratios is more appealing to). This is also reflected in the spoiler woman custom body.

A body with little to no meat on it. I can take her arms off and slap the castrum bosses silly with those noodles. Neither empowering or daring, just something to slap on a magazine. The other option is just as lazy and still had little to lose when its involved with Hrothgars and Roegadyns.