Please make Blue Mage a normal job

[ReiMakoto]

would be a great thing were bozja and eureka weren't FATE-centric contents.. because otherwise missile and lvl5 death will demolish those FATES.. unless they make the enemies immune to it/have different system for blue mage.

Death already exists as a logos/lost action, a lot of the enemies/ bosses are either immune or die fast enough that its not an issue.

[Seraphor]

Limited Job content and having a balanced spec for duty finder are not inherently mutually exclusive. BLU could keep its limited content and then be locked into its already existing almost balanced optimal dps setup if you wish to play it in regular content.

It could. But then BLU is taking up the resources and 'space' of two jobs, a full job (of which we only have 3-4 left) AND the extra stuff that makes it a Limited Job.

We could, for example, get Chemist, Geomancer, Mystic Knight and another phys ranged job in the next two expansions.
Or they could make BLU a normal job, and lose one of those four new jobs....

[ReiMakoto]

It could. But then BLU is taking up the resources and 'space' of two jobs, a full job (of which we only have 3-4 left) AND the extra stuff that makes it a Limited Job.

We could, for example, get Chemist, Geomancer, Mystic Knight and another phys ranged job in the next two expansions.
Or they could make BLU a normal job, and lose one of those four new jobs....

Personally I would take that trade, however im fairly sure the limited side of BLU is not handled by the job balance and design team, instead it is handled by the Atma guy and the side content rescources, so generating limited content is not taking away rescources from job development, sure it would "take away" the rescources from a CHM GEO ect if they did make an unlimited spec, but i would argue BLU is more iconic and its development would be more economical

[Seraphor]

Personally I would take that trade, however im fairly sure the limited side of BLU is not handled by the job balance and design team, instead it is handled by the Atma guy and the side content rescources, so generating limited content is not taking away rescources from job development, sure it would "take away" the rescources from a CHM GEO ect if they did make an unlimited spec, but i would argue BLU is more iconic and its development would be more economical

This is entirely subjective.
Trying to remove as much subjectivity as possible. I'd argue the variety of having multiple different jobs in different capacities, is greater than the same job overlapping two different functions.

[ReiMakoto]

This is entirely subjective.
Trying to remove as much subjectivity as possible. I'd argue the variety of having multiple different jobs in different capacities, is greater than the same job overlapping two different functions.

Its not that subjective. It is objectively true that it would take far less rescources to develop a balanced job spec out of the limited job form of BLU due to the ground work covered already by the limited side. It is also objectively true that side content and job development do not compete for rescources so they could be handled concurrently. I would also argue it is objectively true that BLU is more iconic than any of the jobs you have mentioned due to the fact it has turned up in more final fantasy games, spinoff and mainline included.

In the subjective realm, I would disagree that it is greater having multiple different things, rather than one more robust thing, but as you said, that is subjective.

[Seraphor]

Its not that subjective. It is objectively true that it would take far less rescources to develop a balanced job spec out of the limited job form of BLU due to the ground work covered already by the limited side. It is also objectively true that side content and job development do not compete for rescources so they could be handled concurrently. I would also argue it is objectively true that BLU is more iconic than any of the jobs you have mentioned due to the fact it has turned up in more final fantasy games, spinoff and mainline included.

In the subjective realm, I would disagree that it is greater having multiple different things, rather than one more robust thing, but as you said, that is subjective.

Let's say they did make BLU a regular job.

It would obviously be a caster DPS, so it would eliminate Geomancer right off the bat. It would likely mean we never get another caster DPS job.

Blue Magic is known for its versatility, but how would this translate in XIV's strictly balanced format?
It has a mix of magical and physical damage types.
It would likely have things like White Wind and Mighty Guard as party utility. This in turn would result in a lower personal dps output.
Judging by it's limited form implementation so far, it would have some kind of combo system. Something like one spell procs another spell, or empowers another spell. This isn't something covered by BLM (AF/UI) or SMN (trance cycle)

If you're reading between the lines, you'll notice a lot of similarity with Red Mage, which is our other modern/dapper styled showman mage with high versatility, low pdps and party utility, with a combo system.

I'd much rather have Geomancer, to introduce a new aesthetic to the caster DPS role, and likely bring different mechanics such as more interaction with ground-based effects and channelled spells.

Now, we may still not get Geomancer, so I still won't be getting my first choice. But whatever we do get, I would still wager would be more unique than Blue Mage.

[ReiMakoto]

Let's say they did make BLU a regular job.

It would obviously be a caster DPS, so it would eliminate Geomancer right off the bat. It would likely mean we never get another caster DPS job.

Blue Magic is known for its versatility, but how would this translate in XIV's strictly balanced format?
It has a mix of magical and physical damage types.
It would likely have things like White Wind and Mighty Guard as party utility. This in turn would result in a lower personal dps output.
Judging by it's limited form implementation so far, it would have some kind of combo system. Something like one spell procs another spell, or empowers another spell. This isn't something covered by BLM (AF/UI) or SMN (trance cycle)

If you're reading between the lines, you'll notice a lot of similarity with Red Mage, which is our other modern/dapper styled showman mage with high versatility, low pdps and party utility.

I'd much rather have Geomancer, to introduce a new aesthetic to the caster DPS role, and likely bring different mechanics such as more interaction with ground-based effects and channelled spells.

Thats pure speculation on your part saying we'd never get geomancer after that but regardless.

White Wind and mighty guard could have balancing applied to them easily, just taking final fantasy explorers white wind would be a fairly solid way of balancing WW, where it created an assylum esq bubble which healed everyone in it for 5% of the blu's current health per tick for 20 ticks. Mightyguard is even easier to balance, being that it is traditionally a raidwide shell and protect, with occasionally other bells and whistles like float or sometimes haste. Mixing damage types is a non issue. Yes it would end up having superficial similarities to red mage, but its own gameplay flavour would be different and would be used differently, so it would be no more similar than monk is to sam. Its current limited state shows its rotation is noticable different to the other 3 casters, having to spend "empty" gcds to buff other skills, and being a sort of "magic beserker", developing this groundwork further would only have superfisical similarities to rdm in that it would have some non strictly damaging utility.

Its all well and good saying you'd prefer to have geomancer, but i don't think its honest using it as an argument for not having BLU. That would be like me saying you shouldn't want GEO because I want time mage (which would be my choice for 4th caster if we didnt get blu)

[Seraphor]

Thats pure speculation on your part saying we'd never get geomancer after that but regardless.

White Wind and mighty guard could have balancing applied to them easily, just taking final fantasy explorers white wind would be a fairly solid way of balancing WW, where it created an assylum esq bubble which healed everyone in it for 5% of the blu's current health per tick for 20 ticks. Mightyguard is even easier to balance, being that it is traditionally a raidwide shell and protect, with occasionally other bells and whistles like float or sometimes haste. Mixing damage types is a non issue. Yes it would end up having superficial similarities to red mage, but its own gameplay flavour would be different and would be used differently, so it would be no more similar than monk is to sam. Its current limited state shows its rotation is noticable different to the other 3 casters, having to spend "empty" gcds to buff other skills, and being a sort of "magic beserker", developing this groundwork further would only have superfisical similarities to rdm in that it would have some non strictly damaging utility.

Its all well and good saying you'd prefer to have geomancer, but i don't think its honest using it as an argument for not having BLU. That would be like me saying you shouldn't want GEO because I want time mage (which would be my choice for 4th caster if we didnt get blu)

I never said those things were issues in themselves, but they are all similarities to Red Mage, including it's aesthetic and 'job fantasy'.
There's a lot of similarities, and I think, even if we still hadn't had any sign of Blue Mage in XIV yet, that such a job build, with the style it currently has, would be too similar to Red Mage to consider.

If it had an entirely different aesthetic, and was perhaps even a different role such as a Tank, then I'd be for it. In it's current form, I wouldn't like to see it as a regular job as a caster DPS.

[Mariel_Crystallie]

Limited Job content and having a balanced spec for duty finder are not inherently mutually exclusive. BLU could keep its limited content and then be locked into its already existing almost balanced optimal dps setup if you wish to play it in regular content. Unless you can enlighten me as to why everything that currently exist would HAVE to be gutted, the only one i can think of is rescources, but even then having a df spec of BLU is even more rescource economical than making a whole new job.

I agree with you there. we can always keep the current blue mage content but tweak it a little bit for it to be able to enter normal contents. I'll say it time and time again, blue mage current contents are fun and intriguing at least for me, but the hard part is getting the spell because nobody ever does it anymore. they really don't have to scrap what they already do because people actually enjoy it but then when you enter you realize you need a certain spell from certain dungeon that you can't solo but can find nobody to queue with / group up with.. just irritating.

[Shougun]

I never said those things were issues in themselves, but they are all similarities to Red Mage, including it's aesthetic and 'job fantasy'.
There's a lot of similarities, and I think, even if we still hadn't had any sign of Blue Mage in XIV yet, that such a job build, with the style it currently has, would be too similar to Red Mage to consider.

If it had an entirely different aesthetic, and was perhaps even a different role such as a Tank, then I'd be for it. In it's current form, I wouldn't like to see it as a regular job as a caster DPS.

Before we had GNB I thought blue mage tank would have been awesome. . . Back when we had stances I thought Immortal Lion and Azure Eye could be their defensive and offensive modes :3.

Personally I see normal blue, in the current state of the game, being in an offensive support role where when the offensive support fails it translates smoothly into more damage. For example bad breath in most basic terms is in effect a holy from white mage, blue mage being able to disrupt the enemy to support the team (dealing red mage / dancer levels of damage); however, they'd have a mechanic that any debuff that fails to connect (immune / too many debuffs on the monster) turns into a general stacking blue mage corruption debuff that their kit will work around as well (also the general debuff would have a different bit more friendly timer- good for boss fights, and may be applied via other mechanics that don't relate to a failing immunity).

In simple terms it would be akin to fester on summoner, except blue mage would have like 8 debuffs on trash instead of 2 and 8 stacks of 1 debuff on a boss. The blue mage specific debuff would deal more damage with damage related mechanics, such that blue mage gains damage as they loose their support benefits (boss ignoring most offensive support, enfeebles, of course). Having multiple mechanics that could interact, with the ultimate but not first step being a consumption of stacks that fuel their more ancient and wacky blue magic spells. So you could give blue mage pretty much exactly white wind (I would even say buff it, like your hp and a minimum of 300 potency aoe cure) but it would cost them their damage opportunity (which means a blue mage would only use it in emergency situations, like Paladin with Clemency).

Due to the carnival vibe I believe the mechanics of the job revolving around acts and reveals, game show host / ring leader on the battle field. Many of the wacky blue mage spells could translate into normal content, and some could translate 'partially' well. Like for example you might have doom flat out kill trash at some large % health, during the doom countdown the monster takes more damage (and refunds some of the cooldown / cost based on life remaining before death effect activated or if it's killed before doom finished then even more of a refund, quite a bit longer cooldown / cost if it succeeds), and if doom finishes and can't kill the monster it'll then deal massive damage instead (so awesome on bosses).

It could. But then BLU is taking up the resources and 'space' of two jobs, a full job (of which we only have 3-4 left) AND the extra stuff that makes it a Limited Job.

We could, for example, get Chemist, Geomancer, Mystic Knight and another phys ranged job in the next two expansions.
Or they could make BLU a normal job, and lose one of those four new jobs....

It would of course take more resources to have blue be both limited and normal; however, I would argue it would not take two jobs- it would be more like 1 1/2, because you could use much of the limited resources to build the normal portion.

It's a cup half full half empty thing but you can picture it as well that blue mage is currently one of the easiest normal jobs to implement right now. Much of what normal blue needs already exists, it even has story quests. You may add an extra reward or another side quest or something but much of normal blue could simply saddle up next to limited.

This is actually why I suggested what they could do, and should tell people if they're going to do it, is make a limited job each expansion, adding content to it as they go, and then in the end of that expansion cycle make it go from limited to advanced. This could be the way they go back to three jobs, sort of, per expansion without having to put three up front.

4.5 -> Blue limited
5.0 - 5.5 -> Blue gains more content and matches the current level of our jobs
5.5a/b - > New limited job
5.55 -> Blue becomes 'advanced' (gains normal utility)

As they've already made many resources for the job at the point that they get close to our actual cap, the cost of making them normal goes down significantly (of course it'll still be there, got to balance it).

Like I said obviously not free, but if we're arguing it'll cost to make it a job at least we could agree (?) that it'll likely cost a lot less as many of the quests, mechanics, art, and general lore can be used as a foundation.