BLU Ultimates in 5.4?

[ForteNightshade]

8 BLU won't be able to skip Divebombs simply because of how little DPS the MT Blu does, at least based on the Alexander Raid's numbers for full BLU parties. That's a huge chunk of DPS gone, and it takes an extraordinary amount of DPS to beat out Divebombs. Some groups require Melee LB3 to do it, so not having that as an option means that it's safe to say that it won't be skippable.

In addition, Diamondback might be usable to deal with Megaflare stacks/Earthshaker/Tornados, but it does have that issue of not being able to move or attack for 10 seconds, which is 10 seconds of DPS downtime by the time you want to use it. That factor makes it unusable on the 2nd Trio because you'd need to use it while inside the towers/stacked for Megaflare, which means Nael will toss her Bleed AoEs at people who can't move. As the bleed ticks for 100k, anyone who Diamondbacks there will not survive.

As a matter of fact, Diamondback by anyone but the tank in Twin, by anyone in Nael, and during any of the trios will likely cause the user to wipe the raid or get themselves killed. In a fight where movement is always happening, not being able to move for 10 seconds is a death sentence. Not to mention that failing most of the mechanics that don't outright kill you gives a 50% damage down to the person or the group (IIRC it's 50%), BLU is going to need to receive some very strong spells in the next update in order to make taking 8 BLU an easier UCOB clear than a standard comp.

This is also without going into the fact that tank BLU is still extremely Squishy. You can only sacrifice so much damage to Diamondback through things before you start to deal with things you wouldn't otherwise need to, such as the 2nd Twister before Twin's 74% transition, which is something that is trivial to do in a more standard comp.

No, it doesn't. You CAN push Nael to 10% before she jumps. In fact, looking at my clear group a couple months back, she was at 9% when the first dragons dove. That's with no potions, by the way. UCoB DPS checks are comically low nowadays because they didn't balance properly. While yes, tank Blue Mages typically deal pretty low DPS, it's mitigated by the fact healer Blue Mages are essentially DPS without the crit bonus. With potions, you could absolutely push Nael unless she's coded to "Holmgang" in like Brute Justice and Gavel.

Admittedly, I stand corrected in regards to Blackfire. I thought you could cancel out of Diamondback. That being said, it still utterly negates Quick March and also an easy cheese through Heavensfall if someone dies or messes up a tower. You can time it to negate Grand Octet too though people tend to tank LB3 that anywho. As for the downtime. Once again, it literally won't make a lick of difference. You could have the entire party die, raise everyone and still meet Bahmut's DPS check. Now obviously if you're collecting the damage down from Heavensfall cheesing and dying left and right, it'll eventually catch up to you. But Blue Mage has way more power than your standard DPS. Which bodes another problem. Blue Mage instantly becomes the better DPS choice than any current DPS. And it's arguably the better healer. So your standard comp just became significantly easier.

Sollution for that is, of course, to also make DNC and GNB ones.

Considering they couldn't be bothered to make new Primal weapons for them. I doubt they would make Ultimate ones now.

[Darsien]

3k Char Limit

9% is rather big. You need to deal that before she gets that Ravensbeak out, or else the skip becomes impossible. If Synced 60 SMN is a viable comparison, then BLU would be around SMN's general level without new spells (it does around 3k DPS on its own at 60, per my own experience). In order for BLU to get the skip, the 4 DPS BLU would need to do around 6.5-7k DPS each to make up for the tank's lower DPS. That's something only the best players are going to be able to do, assuming new spells make it possible.

As for Heavensfall, it won't be possible without doing the mechanic correctly anyway. Tank LB3 barely allows people to survive 2 towers, and even then mispositioning during the knockback means you take more damage than you would otherwise, making more than 1 impossible to survive. That said, you'd need to do that on reaction. Doing it on reaction has the same issue with Blackfire: Nael dropping a puddle on random players. That begins within 10 seconds of the towers going off.

As for Grand Octet, can't be done there either, unfortunately. Can't do it during baits for obvious reasons, and can't do it before towers because a few of those blowing up will kill everyone regardless of Diamondback, but doing it after you reach towers means 4 people take Twisters. 4 BLU would have to do the full thing for real due to no LB cheese.

For the full BLU comp, I'd say its strongest points are Adds and Golden because of how insane Final Sting is. Adds because of Pheonix, and Golden because Final Sting-ing to kill Golden has no consequence.

That is a good point, though. BLU, if allowed, will likely become the best 4th slot (I don't know if the % bonus applies to BLU as a caster or not at all. If it does apply as caster, then 2 slots). If current numbers are anything to go off of, then it'll easily replace the weaker UCOB jobs, with the only requirement being the Spell Grind.

[MPK]

No, it doesn't. You CAN push Nael to 10% before she jumps. In fact, looking at my clear group a couple months back, she was at 9% when the first dragons dove. That's with no potions, by the way. UCoB DPS checks are comically low nowadays because they didn't balance properly. While yes, tank Blue Mages typically deal pretty low DPS, it's mitigated by the fact healer Blue Mages are essentially DPS without the crit bonus. With potions, you could absolutely push Nael unless she's coded to "Holmgang" in like Brute Justice and Gavel.

Admittedly, I stand corrected in regards to Blackfire. I thought you could cancel out of Diamondback. That being said, it still utterly negates Quick March and also an easy cheese through Heavensfall if someone dies or messes up a tower. You can time it to negate Grand Octet too though people tend to tank LB3 that anywho. As for the downtime. Once again, it literally won't make a lick of difference. You could have the entire party die, raise everyone and still meet Bahmut's DPS check. Now obviously if you're collecting the damage down from Heavensfall cheesing and dying left and right, it'll eventually catch up to you. But Blue Mage has way more power than your standard DPS. Which bodes another problem. Blue Mage instantly becomes the better DPS choice than any current DPS. And it's arguably the better healer. So your standard comp just became significantly easier.



Considering they couldn't be bothered to make new Primal weapons for them. I doubt they would make Ultimate ones now.

Does twisters after quickmarch/grand octet get proc'd when you're diamondbacked?

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Does twisters after quickmarch/grand octet get proc'd when you're diamondbacked?

They would, yes. Twister is instant kill to whoever touches it regardless of mitigation (not even immunities can block it) and it deals a ton of damage + knockback to anyone in the aoe it generates. So Diamondbacking Octet's megaflare stack & towers would kill 50% of the party since towers + megaflare + twisters all go out within a 1s window of each other. Diamondback would likely negate the knockback everyone that wasn't the one who triggered the twister would suffer from though. Octet would have to be played legit in 8 man blucob.

That being said, the Twisters during Quickmarch happen long before the megaflare/earthshakers/tempest wings, so you wouldn't try and diamondback that section, you'd dodge the combined divebomb, and then everyone pops diamondback during the 2nd part of Quickmarch. That also being said, the earthshakers would still have to be spread out, since with the earthen debuff they do 300k (would be 30k with diamondback) which will insta-kill everyone even through diamondback if you stacked all three of them (60k damage total; this also assumes they can even be mitigated and its not just a flat '300k' true damage). Quickmarch wouldn't be entirely trivialized, but megaflare & tempest wing part of it would be.

[MPK]

They would, yes. Twister is instant kill to whoever touches it regardless of mitigation (not even immunities can block it) and it deals a ton of damage + knockback to anyone in the aoe it generates. So Diamondbacking Octet's megaflare stack & towers would kill 50% of the party since towers + megaflare + twisters all go out within a 1s window of each other. Diamondback would likely negate the knockback everyone that wasn't the one who triggered the twister would suffer from though. Octet would have to be played legit in 8 man blucob.

That being said, the Twisters during Quickmarch happen long before the megaflare/earthshakers/tempest wings, so you wouldn't try and diamondback that section, you'd dodge the combined divebomb, and then everyone pops diamondback during the 2nd part of Quickmarch. That also being said, the earthshakers would still have to be spread out, since with the earthen debuff they do 300k (would be 30k with diamondback) which will insta-kill everyone even through diamondback if you stacked all three of them (60k damage total; this also assumes they can even be mitigated and its not just a flat '300k' true damage). Quickmarch wouldn't be entirely trivialized, but megaflare & tempest wing part of it would be.

Yeah quickmarch itself isn't a really big wall, there's still mechanics like blackfire, heavensfall trio and tenstrike trio that you can't really cheese with diamondback. Grand octet might even be harder as blu since you can't cheese the megaflare stacks with tank LB if they don't give a Tank LB for BLU.

Not sure if you can even diamond back cheese fellruin trio.