Blue mage is a waste of potential, change my mind.

[Mariel_Crystallie]

Honestly, it was kind of the case that when it comes to this game, blue mage put the developers into a lose-lose-lose situation.

Think of it:
Blue mage was a widely requested job, so not adding it to the game was a loss since they weren't adding a job that's been a staple of the game and wildly popular.

If they added it like a normal job, they would have had to severely limit its spells and potentially make it so that they're either not learned from monsters (which goes against the identity of the job) or would have to be learned from monsters in instanced battles during job quests (and with how many people don't do their job quests this opens up other issues) Not to mention that the extremely limited number of spells would have people complaining that they can't use specific spells they see enemies in the field use. Effectively we'd see this option end up with "not being a real blue mage"

So they chose the limited job system. Also a failing from the perspective of many players, but it gave us the ability to have most our spells learned from monsters, expand the number of spells, and not worry about how all those extra options might compare in balance to other casting jobs. Effectively giving us the most true to history implementation of the job while having to restrict it to not being able to play with others... which also upset people.

So really there's just no winning around this job, and I can't see a way they can make any adjustment that will make everyone happy.

They could make it as normal job if they want. I mean if you want all BLU current skill animation you can use it as skill glamour or something. but then you can still have the current effect skill ONLY for carnival. then its a win win solution for everyone.

[JiSH]

@Shougun as i can't quote him because of 3000 characters limitation

All points are very true, for me it looks like the current Blue Mage concept is very confused with itself, in one side they're a solo content with the Carnivale, on the other side, the "ultimate" achievement we can get from this currently is definitely a group contant, which personally i think is even harder than normal savage content in a way, with how hard it is to Tank as a Blue Mage in a raid with all the tank swappings you have to do and no QoL skills like provoke and shirk. I think the solution is they should pick one direction instead of trying to "overdevelop" the job, either make it full solo, or full group content.

There's also the problem with how a lot of skills are just a glam of the other skills, or how they have too many skills for their own good, but only a few are actually useful in a raid situation where you have to optimize everything, the element and the "holy trinity Blue Mage" concept is interesting, but ultimately impractical if they're going to ever let Blue Mage in PF with other normal jobs, at least with their current skills, they'll just end up as a Caster DPS and nothing else, which nullifies it's uniqueness, but personally, if they just decide to make it a normal job, it's not a bad idea to just make it a Caster DPS.

at the end of the day, i think they should really reconsider the whole concept of the limited job over and over again, and make transition on how to make it a normal instead of making it a "limited" one but with confused identity.

[JiSH]

Honestly, it was kind of the case that when it comes to this game, blue mage put the developers into a lose-lose-lose situation.

Think of it:
Blue mage was a widely requested job, so not adding it to the game was a loss since they weren't adding a job that's been a staple of the game and wildly popular.

If they added it like a normal job, they would have had to severely limit its spells and potentially make it so that they're either not learned from monsters (which goes against the identity of the job) or would have to be learned from monsters in instanced battles during job quests (and with how many people don't do their job quests this opens up other issues) Not to mention that the extremely limited number of spells would have people complaining that they can't use specific spells they see enemies in the field use. Effectively we'd see this option end up with "not being a real blue mage"

So they chose the limited job system. Also a failing from the perspective of many players, but it gave us the ability to have most our spells learned from monsters, expand the number of spells, and not worry about how all those extra options might compare in balance to other casting jobs. Effectively giving us the most true to history implementation of the job while having to restrict it to not being able to play with others... which also upset people.

So really there's just no winning around this job, and I can't see a way they can make any adjustment that will make everyone happy.

Yeah you're right, you can't really make everyone happy, but i think making it a normal job would open a new window for people who haven't tried it, personally i'd say streamlining the whole skill system and make it like other jobs would work, and also making the skills just locked behind job quests(where you have to learn skills from instanced monsters) also works because in the end people will do their job quests if they really want to use the full potential of the job, also since SE is removing the job quest system(at least for now in ShB), it'll be a lot easier to do.
But, this might upset people who liked who diverse the Blue Mage skills were(again, we can't make everyone happy lol), so i think keeping the current skill system would work ONLY IF they make a hard work of balancing all the skills(potency, effects, everything).

I'd say making Blue Mage a normal job is possible but it's just really hard to do, pretty sure YoshiP said they decided on Limited Job because balancing Blue Mage will be very hard(and with how Blue Mage currenlty is, yeah it IS very hard to do), but i don't think it's impossible if they put their brain and time into it. New expansion is in like what, around 9 more months? i think it'll be a good time to introduce a revamped Blue Mage.

[Volsungr]

They could make it as normal job if they want. I mean if you want all BLU current skill animation you can use it as skill glamour or something. but then you can still have the current effect skill ONLY for carnival. then its a win win solution for everyone.

this would be the best scenario were Blue mage were tuned to a dps job, however seeing how they botched the whole egi-glamour thing from all the way back in HW, it's probably not possible for now since they have much more thing to handle (unless they use the assets that's already in game). alternatively and / or additionally, you can also makes bluemage a 2-route job like sch/smn. each have their own skillset taken from the monster in the game. That way it can be a legit job, and have ranges of different spell. or you can share it but tune the skill to be based on int/mind just so it doesn't get too overpowered. dps job having healing skill and healing job having strong damaging skills isn't unheard of these days.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

Honestly, it was kind of the case that when it comes to this game, blue mage put the developers into a lose-lose-lose situation.

Think of it:
Blue mage was a widely requested job, so not adding it to the game was a loss since they weren't adding a job that's been a staple of the game and wildly popular.

If they added it like a normal job, they would have had to severely limit its spells and potentially make it so that they're either not learned from monsters (which goes against the identity of the job) or would have to be learned from monsters in instanced battles during job quests (and with how many people don't do their job quests this opens up other issues) Not to mention that the extremely limited number of spells would have people complaining that they can't use specific spells they see enemies in the field use. Effectively we'd see this option end up with "not being a real blue mage"

So they chose the limited job system. Also a failing from the perspective of many players, but it gave us the ability to have most our spells learned from monsters, expand the number of spells, and not worry about how all those extra options might compare in balance to other casting jobs. Effectively giving us the most true to history implementation of the job while having to restrict it to not being able to play with others... which also upset people.

So really there's just no winning around this job, and I can't see a way they can make any adjustment that will make everyone happy.

There is a solution to adding Blue Mage into the game, but the answer is not as easy as many thought even when I thought at first it was an easy solution but it gets extremely complicated. To simplify it, it is a gamble development with huge risk but with huge reward. Unfortunately they went the wrong route and ignored the better idea. To elaborate, you can allow Blue Mage to learn from monsters and participate as a normal job however a new set of restrictions to duty finder has to come into play.

At the moment it is level and gear item limit, if Blue Mage were to be added they need a code to specifically check the amount of spell the players has while making a restriction to say 'You need X amount of spells'. Then comes another condition where you need specific essential spells, right now with Blue Mage Spell Book interface without any guide to lookup whatsoever the only way to figure out where the spells are, is through location or where to obtain them and that is the only information to go on by. I get that in most games with Blue Mage you have to go out of your way to find the spells themselves, but we live in the age of information where when someone finds a spell they'll report it or post it on a social network app or a resource wiki site. Not just that but the interface has to be user friendly with newer players which can go against the fun of spell hunting as a Blue Mage since they may have to reveal which mob gives the spell or what the spell name is called. Which all leads back to the essential spell condition, because like any roulette some conditions are listed 'Must have beaten ???? once' which can be confusing for some if they are fresh and new to the game. If that condition were to be applied for Blue Mage specific spell condition then they have to name the spell as well as reveal info on where to get said spell plus putting indicators on which mobs holds the spell itself. These 2 conditions can allow it to participate it in Duty Finder Normally, however the second condition poses a problem where 'Do we reveal the name of a specific spell, location and the mob to obtain making it easier for the players to try and find the spells necessary to participate in normal content' or 'Let them figure it out themselves and spend countless hours of guesswork on where the spells are'.

Due to the second condition it brings another problem, do we make learning spells RNG or guarantee? Cause if we go by RNG people can miss out on the spell and ignore the mob not realizing the mob has a Blue Mage spell. The 100% learn rate in groups is the right way to go since the class cannot solo any duties alone (When synced), should it be applied to the overworld? In my opinion it should, unlike The FF series (mainly the single player ones) you can take your time and there is no rush (Speed running doesn't count, that is either a competition or an event. Whereas the situation I am discussing is through normal playthrough.). In FFXI however it is somewhat necessary but it has armor mainly the Artifact hand armor (Magus Bazubands till Assimilator's Bazubands +3) that allows you to have at max a 90% chance learn rate if fully upgraded making it a near guarantee to learn Blue Mage spells. In FFXIV the approach could have been different as we are living in a time where people have jobs and it is better to look at them as well and make spells 100% guarantee learn rate for overworld. Since we are already having problem with time in Party Finder Looking for Blue Mages (I'll talk more on that later) not just that but imagine without a fan site having the information, you could have missed out on some spells that can be learned earlier on in the early levels before you hit level 15.

Actually your job quest reminded me that nearly all of the quests in Blue Mage involve in killing enemies, it was a wasted opportunity that they could have made it easier to learn spells this way as well, an example would be Blue Gold, the mob itself does Drill cannon and easy way of learning Drill Cannon with job quest itself while in North Thanalan it is from a level 49 mob both ways are viable. However it goes to show that it was a missed opportunity with the quests where Martin would have tasked you of killing a mob for coin, all in the while the mob teaches you a new move while keeping to the story itself. However it then comes to the problem of 'Will the player quickly kill the mob before it could even cast its spell?' The answer would be yes and the overworld option is there for it in case the players kill the mob too quickly. To prevent such occurrences they need to put an indicator but that contradicts with Blue Mage as you're meant to hunt for the spell, not spoofed to you. Which is why they say it goes against the job fantasy. In all honesty a bit of job fantasy has to be sacrificed to make it normal in the game and the price to pay such a sacrifice isn't big if anything it'll be a quality of life improvement as a class. Making the job more appealing for newer players.

Does that mean they have to remove the identity of Blue Mage where it is about learning from monsters and being able to switch spells? No, because these two are the core identity of Blue Mage. Hunting the spells is part of the fun of Blue Mage, but what it all comes down to at the end of the day is that we have to sacrifice a bit of fun to make it viable in normal participation. In all honesty I wouldn't mind, in fact it'll make it more possible for Blue Mage to be in normal participation and party composition if they kept the two main core of Blue Mage being that it can switch spells and learn from monsters. The third most important part is the ability to switch roles, which then brings in more questions of "Do we let Blue Mage be the first Omni Role Job in FFXIV". To that I say, yes because then you can start experimenting with the other classes like a Healer Red Mage, or a DPS Dark Knight it can really start to open up more creative ideas for the other jobs as well. The last part of the priority is find the spells themselves, which in all honesty what works in single player games doesn't work in MMO. FFXI knew that and cut some of the spells, made it fit to its own game and it worked for them. wheres in FFXIV they tried to copy the first iteration of Blue Mage that being from FFV. FFV was the first one to give birth to the rise of Blue Mage however it isn't the best iteration out of the series there's plenty of other games to take inspiration from (During and before Level 50 Blue Mage release), but I think they focused far too much on trying to make it feel like this Blue Mage is FFV. FFXI did its own thing with its own Blue Mage lore and theme and instead of the duelist style they went like Arabic style to match with the expansion's theme Treasures of Aht Urghan (ToAU), plus its lore is fascinating where Blue Mage absorb the soul of their enemies to learn their power, however you could lose control of that power and become a monster yourself. FFXIV could have done that and gave its own lore and work from there in which it did. Blue Magic is taught somewhere far west of Limsa Lominsa far across the sea where the Whalaqee Tribe practice the magic and martin brought it over to sell the job crystals and teach people about Blue Magic while earning some gil on the side. I mean we have a lore to boot it, but the armor is that of a duelist in which is more related to FFV since FFXIV knows about Azulmagia (which I dunno how nor do I know or remember how they recognize a FFV boss and put it into FFXIV lore wise...).

Point being, FFXIV could have made their own version Blue Mage that can participate normally so long they kept the two main identity of the job. They can sacrifice it a bit for the sake of convenience and quality of life improvements, so long the two core being learning from monsters and being able to switch spells are kept and untouched. Because right now playing Blue Mage is like Playing Black mage where you spam certain spells over and over again until it is time to unleash your powerful spells on enemies which is Xenoglossy or Foul using a Polyglot. What Blue Mage need right now is a Job gauge to actually make it viable in FFXIV cause I have said it in another post, FFXIV added Job Gauge a unique thing to FFXIV and not in any other game. Sure FFXI has the TP gauge but that is vastly different from FFXIV's Job gauge as each gauge is unique and tailored to each job specifically. If we want Blue Mage as a normal job then a good inspiration to take from in FF8 Quistis Trepe a Character that uses Blue Magic as her Limit Break, the higher the limit break stored the stronger the blue magic.

[JiSH]

Actually your job quest reminded me that nearly all of the quests in Blue Mage involve in killing enemies, it was a wasted opportunity that they could have made it easier to learn spells this way as well, an example would be Blue Gold, the mob itself does Drill cannon and easy way of learning Drill Cannon with job quest itself while in North Thanalan it is from a level 49 mob both ways are viable. However it goes to show that it was a missed opportunity with the quests where Martin would have tasked you of killing a mob for coin, all in the while the mob teaches you a new move while keeping to the story itself. However it then comes to the problem of 'Will the player quickly kill the mob before it could even cast its spell?' The answer would be yes and the overworld option is there for it in case the players kill the mob too quickly. To prevent such occurrences they need to put an indicator but that contradicts with Blue Mage as you're meant to hunt for the spell, not spoofed to you. Which is why they say it goes against the job fantasy. In all honesty a bit of job fantasy has to be sacrificed to make it normal in the game and the price to pay such a sacrifice isn't big if anything it'll be a quality of life improvement as a class. Making the job more appealing for newer players.

this would be an easy fix if they just make the story where Martin tells us to learn specific skills in specific job quest, make an instanced/overworld quest monster spawn(the one that you have to go into a circle to make the monster spawn), and make the monster keep respawning until we get the skill, and make learning the skill a requirement to complete the job quest, it's a lot easier to do, and they should've done this for a lot of the essential skills, it's a missed opportunity indeed.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I think it's fun and I enjoy the comedy of it. Also doing a full blu run of Syrcus Tower was pretty epic and while it was difficult, it was also rewarding. I think the reason BLU is so 'limited' was because for it to be a real contender it would have to lose some of what makes it unique to make it a viable job for current content. There's no real rhythm to it. Just... Bristle/Whistle + skill, DoT, ad infinitum. I think in the end it would end up like Redmage: a job that's a mix of two that we already have. Yay.

It could be better but I'm enjoying what there is so far. At the very least blu log encourages PF parties for full blu clears. Those are always fun. Carnival is meh for me. I wish less of the spells were locked behind it.

[Shadow_Sama]

I think at this point, Square Enix should make a poll on the Lodestone website and put up a vote and ask the community itself. Should Blue Mage remain a limited job? Or should it be converted to a normal job? Along with an explanation of the implications of both paths. Sometimes, it's best to see what the community thinks collectively to see how to proceed forward. They did this before during A Realm Reborn about unreleased job classes. I don't see why they can't do it again.

[Volsungr]

I think at this point, Square Enix should make a poll on the Lodestone website and put up a vote and ask the community itself. Should Blue Mage remain a limited job? Or should it be converted to a normal job? Along with an explanation of the implications of both paths. Sometimes, it's best to see what the community thinks collectively to see how to proceed forward. They did this before during A Realm Reborn about unreleased job classes. I don't see why they can't do it again.

i remember that! and i think that is a great idea. At the very least it opens a possibility for blue mage to be one of the good thing this game has to offer because currently it's one of the, dare I say, less appealing content in FFXIV right now. i was thinking of doing blue mage on the off-raid patch but i missed the hype train. ever since then i've been against the idea, just because after every new update regarding blue mage, once you missed the train you're gonna have a hard time

[Alysella]

There is no reason for a limited job in the first place anyway. FYI Blue mage now is just for memes and its actually hard to find parties to do the blue mage contents. They are just wasting resources to make more "blue mage only" contents and should just make it to normal jobs and adjust things for it