Can we bring Thief back into the fold?

[ADVSS]

Rogue is just a naming convention for thief. I don't know why people are pushing against the title. This is why we don't have a Thug class, its just a derogatory term at this point. Even table top games that FF took inspiration from, like dungeons and dragons and pathfinder use Rogue now instead of the term Thief, which it was originally called, because of the connotations that the class titled "criminal" was not a good name to give yourself if you're supposed to be a hero. Very few enemies in this game are humanoids, and so stealing from an opo opo wouldnt make a whole lot of sense, so instead they give the class/job mug which lets you get a material drop from killing them. What even would you steal from bosses? a NQ craftable item at the same ilevel? Weapons aren't very unique in this game, in that you dont have them have poison damage, or elemental damage, or additional effects, so its super pointless to have an ability that will go to waste when you realize all you'd be stealing is garbo you probably have better(green or blue quality at least) compared to. Or maybe you want a chance at a dungeon drop that you'll see in one of the chests during the dungeon you're doing? I mean sure, go for it, its just not going to be a meaningful ability, and at the end of the day making a new class for that ability that doesnt matter, and probably has the same success rate as BLUs level 5 death spell, will just be extremely disappointing. Go get your rogue relic armor from the level...20 class quest? idr and your Zidane outfit for being subbed, and request a Locke outfit, and play your Thief fantasy with glamours. Thief really didnt have much to offer besides stealing rare weapons from specific bosses. In order for them to make a class based around that one time thing, they will have to create loot tables for at least all the dungeon bosses. And what you get will not be some Atma Weapon, or Ultima Blade...it will be ilevel of the dungeon at best, and will just maybe have better secondary stats from what weapon normally drops in that instance. They will never give you a weapon that is a - better than what the savage raiders have access to eventually as it will be highest i level, and b something rediculously higher than the level of the dungeon it came from, as tomestone gear exists as the middle ground upgrade for people unless they do savage raids.

Your comment isnt worth adding to a new post so ill reply to it here:

Rogue plays completely different to what a thief is about... its not about crappy glamors, its about the theme of being bad but also good, teasing people taking their stuff and pickpocketing...

For rogue to be anywhere near Thief first it needs poisoning on daggers buff... (to infect a dot) at the very least,



Second add ABILITY TO ACTRUALLY STEAl off along cd with no cd what so ever that actually gives us items.. instead of it loot table to people. Next: add more theif abilitys and stop with the lame ass ninja trash...

until that happens its not a theif its just wow trash rogue

and daggers like magemasher that can inflict silence sometimes..

First of all 2.0 rogue had 2 stances that were poison stances that changed a couple of their skills to do things like paralyze or give hp back. You also have dots, i believe one is called Shadow Fang- a tick in damage over time is literally this games version of poison/bleed damage.
Second of all i told you already that section about weapons, special effects and elemental damage is not a thing in this game, and never will be unless they do a major overhaul of the game. So no mage masher-like weapons , like i said. There is no reason to have your solo game Thief in this MMO.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

Rogue is just a naming convention for thief. I don't know why people are pushing against the title. This is why we don't have a Thug class, its just a derogatory term at this point. Even table top games that FF took inspiration from, like dungeons and dragons and pathfinder use Rogue now instead of the term Thief, which it was originally called, because of the connotations that the class titled "criminal" was not a good name to give yourself if you're supposed to be a hero. Very few enemies in this game are humanoids, and so stealing from an opo opo wouldnt make a whole lot of sense, so instead they give the class/job mug which lets you get a material drop from killing them. What even would you steal from bosses? a NQ craftable item at the same ilevel? Weapons aren't very unique in this game, in that you dont have them have poison damage, or elemental damage, or additional effects, so its super pointless to have an ability that will go to waste when you realize all you'd be stealing is garbo you probably have better(green or blue quality at least) compared to. Or maybe you want a chance at a dungeon drop that you'll see in one of the chests during the dungeon you're doing? I mean sure, go for it, its just not going to be a meaningful ability, and at the end of the day making a new class for that ability that doesnt matter, and probably has the same success rate as BLUs level 5 death spell, will just be extremely disappointing. Go get your rogue relic armor from the level...20 class quest? idr and your Zidane outfit for being subbed, and request a Locke outfit, and play your Thief fantasy with glamours.

Rogue plays completely different to what a thief is about... its not about crappy glamors, its about the theme of being bad but also good, teasing people taking their stuff and pickpocketing...

For rogue to be anywhere near Thief first it needs poisoning on daggers buff... (to infect a dot) at the very least, Second add ABILITY TO ACTRUALLY STEAl off along cd with no cd what so ever that actually gives us items.. instead of it loot table to people. Next: add more theif abilitys and stop with the lame ass ninja trash...

until that happens its not a theif its just wow trash rogue

and daggers like magemasher that can inflict silence sometimes..

[RicaRuin]

Rogue plays completely different to what a thief is about... its not about crappy glamors, its about the theme of being bad but also good, teasing people taking their stuff and pickpocketing...

For rogue to be anywhere near Thief first it needs poisoning on daggers buff... (to infect a dot) at the very least, Second add ABILITY TO ACTRUALLY STEAl off along cd with no cd what so ever that actually gives us items.. instead of it loot table to people. Next: add more theif abilitys and stop with the lame ass ninja trash...

until that happens its not a theif its just wow trash rogue

and daggers like magemasher that can inflict silence sometimes..

That's... not how this game works, though. You don't have abilities linked to weapons.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

That's... not how this game works, though. You don't have abilities linked to weapons.

we should for debuffs at the veryleast this is final fantasy.. Yoshi might be a good game maker and a great salvation but he is a shitty ff maker

[RicaRuin]

we should for debuffs at the veryleast this is final fantasy.. Yoshi might be a good game maker and a great salvation but he is a shitty ff maker

In FF XVI it might be like that, but this is an MMO. It's not like you would equip a weaker weapon just for the ability, and they won't make multiple versions of a weapon just with different abilities but same stats.

You can't just put mechanics in the same way a Single Player RPG is able to.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

I will admit to not knowing a thing about FF XI. But well, enlighten me - maybe it is possible. I was just thinking about your example of mage masher and silence and how encounters are designed. Would the silence debuff be applied randomly as it's part of the weapon? Then it would be... nice to have, but rather useless on some encounters. Would it automatically silence the enemy if you attack during a cast that can be silenced? Then it could become rather broken. (And would maybe lead to Thief becoming required for each Static).
And for poison... randomly or refreshed with each hit? The latter seems a little... too strong.



And for the White Knight Thing, I have a full list of things I flat out don't like about the game or criticise, concerning story as well as gameplay. But that is not part of this topic. (White Knight seems to be used rather inflationary theses days.)

well 1st it was a mmo, that still exist (even outside ff dark age of camelot even shitty wow) has weapons with innate passives built on some is debuff some its extra power as for how..

Blind Dagger 7 4 188 1.28 Additional Effect: Blindness WAR/BLM/RDM/THF/PLD/
DRK/BST/BRD/RNG/SAM/
NIN/DRG/SMN/SCH
Aspir Knife Exclusive 12 5 201 1.49 Additional Effect: MP Drain WAR/THF/PLD/DRK/BRD/RNG
SAM/NIN/DRG/COR/PUP/DN
can really easily work on mmo... elements could have as well but thats ruined..

and its a random chance of it being effective its no diffrent than smns like you refreshing dot with 1 single button

[RicaRuin]

well 1st it was a mmo, that still exist (even outside ff dark age of camelot even shitty wow) has weapons with innate passives built on some is debuff some its extra power as for how..

Blind Dagger 7 4 188 1.28 Additional Effect: Blindness WAR/BLM/RDM/THF/PLD/
DRK/BST/BRD/RNG/SAM/
NIN/DRG/SMN/SCH
Aspir Knife Exclusive 12 5 201 1.49 Additional Effect: MP Drain WAR/THF/PLD/DRK/BRD/RNG
SAM/NIN/DRG/COR/PUP/DN
can really easily work on mmo... elements could have as well but thats ruined..

and its a random chance of it being effective its no diffrent than smns like you refreshing dot with 1 single button

Okay, so if I understand your data correctly, the effect really triggers with each attack? That would be a little over the top for encounters that are designed as they are designed in FF XIV. But I stated that above.
EDIT: Didn't see the random part, but depending on the percentage, it might be either useless or strong I suppose. Still, seems weird if the enemy just... got silenced while doing nothing related to magic in that moment.

Well, DoT refreshing usually requires the usage of a skill that means a DPS loss in that moment, so you want to minimise the time spent on those skills and might risk they run out. But refreshing a DoT with each hit doesn't equal any loss and refreshing it to full duration each time gives a lot of room. Maybe if the poison only lasted 1 second, but then it would be ineffective as it doesn't have a server tick, I guess. Or just nerf the DPS output of Thief to make up for permanent DoT uptime.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

Okay, so if I understand your data correctly, the effect really triggers with each attack? That would be a little over the top for encounters that are designed as they are designed in FF XIV. But I stated that above.
EDIT: Didn't see the random part, but depending on the percentage, it might be either useless or strong I suppose. Still, seems weird if the enemy just... got silenced while doing nothing related to magic in that moment.

Well, DoT refreshing usually requires the usage of a skill that means a DPS loss in that moment, so you want to minimise the time spent on those skills and might risk they run out. But refreshing a DoT with each hit doesn't equal any loss and refreshing it to full duration each time gives a lot of room. Maybe if the poison only lasted 1 second, but then it would be ineffective as it doesn't have a server tick, I guess. Or just nerf the DPS output of Thief to make up for permanent DoT uptime.

the effect has a chance to work on attacking... its not always its like .000005% chance ofi t even effect upon attacking it doesnt just happan every attack lol

[Seraphor]

Have you even played FFXIV?
It's not FFXI.

XI is as different to XIV as... VII is to the remake. Their systems aren't really comparable.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

Have you even played FFXIV?
It's not FFXI.

XI is as different to XIV as... VII is to the remake. Their systems aren't really comparable.

did i say it was the same I said its a mmo and mmo isn't an excuse for certain systems that obviosely works in mmos its not about the game but the system

And FFXI was a broken, exploitable mess of a game that ran at the speed of sloth.

Your point?

A. doesnt matter broken or not
b: speed doesnt matter either

--- the only thing that matters was it was A REAL FINAL FANTASY-- nothing else matters but that