Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Maybe this is why it took so long to put Viera in the game. Because they screwed up their own race lore by going against it, making it inconsistent.
They couldn't do that to the Viera...a race that already existed before XIV with pre-existing Lore that has remained consistent since its creation.
So now Because they put the Viera in XIV everyone expects them to shatter that consistently because they did it with every other race. I'm sure the creators and people that work on this franchise are passionate about their creations and work, would love to keep their properties as created. And not destroyed and altered just because their being featured in another game that can5 stick to it's own created lore for it's own races

[Kazran]

Its not the same lore as 12 and the Ivalice titles, the timeline is backwards. Originally 12 is first and tactics is in the future, in 14 ff12 is the present and Tactics is the past. Its not the same Ivalice and Dalmasca.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Its not the same lore as 12 and the Ivalice titles, the timeline is backwards. Originally 12 is first and tactics is in the future, in 14 ff12 is the present and Tactics is the past. Its not the same Ivalice and Dalmasca.

Thats kinda irrelevant, Ivalice is Ivalice. The timeline doesn't exactly effect that, Fran being in another game doesn't effect that. Unless SE/YoshiP and team decide to change that.

[TheMightyMollusk]

It's also literally not the same world at all, so limiting this game based on another game is silly.

[Rosenstrauch]

I get that there's really not much to discuss—we already know exactly why they didn't include male Viera on the first go-round. And I get that when everyone is just spinning their wheels, arguments are bound to be circular. But is the old "they're beholden to Ivalice Alliance lore" thing really being rehashed again?

FFXIV is not an Ivalice Alliance game. It is not beholden to Ivalice Alliance lore. It is not beholden to the lore of any preexisting Final Fantasy game, for that matter. There are so many examples of homages and references to past Final Fantasy games not being 1:1 adaptations of the source material that the idea that Viera alone are bound to the lore of a previous game is baffling.

[Melichoir]

Thats kinda irrelevant, Ivalice is Ivalice. The timeline doesn't exactly effect that, Fran being in another game doesn't effect that. Unless SE/YoshiP and team decide to change that.

It seems strange that you would argue "Ivalice is Ivalice" but then turn around and say "Well timelines dont matter". Youre quoting lore when it suits you and rejecting it when it doesnt. If were gonna go with the "Its the established lore!" route with how Viera should behave as a race, then it behooves us to take it all and not pick and choose when it benefits us.

Even if we give this point credit with it being "Ivalice and All" on the source, the lore contradictions still exist when it comes to the comparisons of the First nad the Source. As I pointed out before, why is it that culturally all the races differ pretty significantly on the first from the source...except the Viera. Short of an 'Ivalice', they still have the same cultural norms - Males live separate as forest guardians, females live in their own spot. As a comparison, Lalafells are more magic and trade orientated on the source, where dwarves are straight up more isolationist and industrial in nature.

This is the issue with dropping in the FF12 Lore into 14. It doesnt make sense, and to try to 'patch things up' requires coming up with more and more convoluted reasons why something is the way it is. That usually breaks more lore and repeasts the cycle. To course correct, the thing that would have to happen is literally just have male viera stop being all Lone wolf and start participating. It would up end established ffxII lore, but who cares cause this isnt FFXII, and therefore changes should be expected as this isnt and shouldnt be a carbon copy of FFXII lore.

Beyond that, if FFXIV introduced males, it would do nothing to the pre-existing lore of FFXII because that is a separate game and timeline. As far as anyone is concerned, this is an AU, so the lore doesnt have to be 1:1 anyways. If you like the FFXII lore, cool. FFXII isnt changing. So there is no real argument against having male Viera in an AU timeline where Viera also exist.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

It's also literally not the same world at all, so limiting this game based on another game is silly.

I mean...the GAME isn't being limited. Just a race is being kept consistent (for now)
Thats not limiting, its not like we've ever seen one to begin wit in any past FF game so...

I get that there's really not much to discuss—we already know exactly why they didn't include male Viera on the first go-round. And I get that when everyone is just spinning their wheels, arguments are bound to be circular. But is the old "they're beholden to Ivalice Alliance lore" thing really being rehashed again?

FFXIV is not an Ivalice Alliance game. It is not beholden to Ivalice Alliance lore. It is not beholden to the lore of any preexisting Final Fantasy game, for that matter. There are so many examples of homages and references to past Final Fantasy games not being 1:1 adaptations of the source material that the idea that Viera alone are bound to the lore of a previous game is baffling.

Its just gonna happen, unless conversation about Male Viera is locked, or just outright stops, these exact same conversations will always come back up. There IS in fact nothing to talk about, so we are Always gonna keep rehashing the same conversations.
Now True, FFXIV is not an Ivalice game. But the Viera are an Ivalice Race. And Ivalice is in FFXIV. Its still Ivalice, and they are still Viera. Viera are still from Ivalice.
So...yeah. lol
The only reason I pick on Viera to stay consistent, is because they don't exist outside of their Source. At least yet.
Most other things like say Ifrit and Bahamut are used and adapted many different times throughout the franchise, so its nothing different and new that they did so again.
Viera have never been used again outside of Vialice.

It seems strange that you would argue "Ivalice is Ivalice" but then turn around and say "Well timelines dont matter". Youre quoting lore when it suits you and rejecting it when it doesnt. If were gonna go with the "Its the established lore!" route with how Viera should behave as a race, then it behooves us to take it all and not pick and choose when it benefits us.

Viera are from Ivalice, another timeline doesn't change that what so ever. Ivalice IS still Ivalice. So yes, timeline doesn't matter, the lore is still the same.
This isn't what benefits Me or my argument, this is just a simple fact. Its not like the Viera change unless its been established that they are actually different. Which as far as I can tell hasn't happened yet. YET.
Even on the 1st they are kept the same. And its not like its said that the males were wiped out or anything. So unless something is said, the Viera worked the same on the 1st and on the Source, and from their source.

[Melichoir]

I mean...the GAME isn't being limited. Just a race is being kept consistent (for now)
Thats not limiting, its not like we've ever seen one to begin wit in any past FF game so...



Its just gonna happen, unless conversation about Male Viera is locked, or just outright stops, these exact same conversations will always come back up. There IS in fact nothing to talk about, so we are Always gonna keep rehashing the same conversations.
Now True, FFXIV is not an Ivalice game. But the Viera are an Ivalice Race. And Ivalice is in FFXIV. Its still Ivalice, and they are still Viera. Viera are still from Ivalice.
So...yeah. lol
The only reason I pick on Viera to stay consistent, is because they don't exist outside of their Source. At least yet.
Most other things like say Ifrit and Bahamut are used and adapted many different times throughout the franchise, so its nothing different and new that they did so again.
Viera have never been used again outside of Vialice.



Viera are from Ivalice, another timeline doesn't change that what so ever. Ivalice IS still Ivalice. So yes, timeline doesn't matter, the lore is still the same.
This isn't what benefits Me or my argument, this is just a simple fact. Its not like the Viera change unless its been established that they are actually different. Which as far as I can tell hasn't happened yet. YET.
Even on the 1st they are kept the same. And its not like its said that the males were wiped out or anything. So unless something is said, the Viera worked the same on the 1st and on the Source, and from their source.

You apparently dont get it. If the timeline doesnt matter, its not the same 'Ivalice' that you are quoting lore from. What helps establish it being the same Ivalice is the order of which things occur. If things arent occuring in the correct order, that changes a lot of hte background information of the place. Claiming its teh same despite different timelines implies that it isnt the same due to it having a different 'history' than what youre quoting. Similar, sure you can argue that, but it is not the same Ivalice. Which is probably good because that actually gives Devs breathing room to modify lore - which they should.

Second, FFXIV isnt a continuation from the original FFXII. Thats been established.

Lastly, you missed my point. It's the fact that they ARE the same on the first as well as on the source thats the issue. Why are they the same when every single race gets different treatment lore wise because they have different histories. This is an inconsistency within FFXIV world building, which comes up specifically because they just dropped FFXII lore into FFXIV without any large adjustments. From a lore perspective, Viera is the outlier in FFXIV. And the reason theyre an outlier is because of meta reasons - the devs didnt create male viera and split the new races between HrothGar and Viera. To explain no male viera, they just ran with FFXII lore, even if it doesnt fit within FFXIV pre-existing lore and world building.

[Rosenstrauch]

The only reason I pick on Viera to stay consistent, is because they don't exist outside of their Source.

Neither are Xande, Doga, Unei, the Labyrinth of the Ancients, Syrcus Tower, and the World of Darkness. The XIV versions of these characters and locations are still vastly different from the game the Crystal Tower raids are in homage to. Eden has only appeared in FF8 prior to this as well, and it was a Guardian Force in that game, not a Sin Eater. It also couldn't cause a Flood of Light—that was from Final Fantasy 3's lore, not 8's. And quite a few of Return to Ivalice's settings only ever appeared in Tactics and 12—just either, not both—yet are so vastly different from each other that the reference is strictly superficial.

Hell, Ivalice in XIV is a nation that rose and fell so long ago that it's considered a myth, with uncovering the truth of its existence being one of the plot threads in the Return to Ivalice raids. The country the Return to Ivalice raids take place in isn't named Ivalice—It's Dalmasca. The continent isn't named Ivalice, either—it's Othard, the same continent that Doma, the Azim Steppe, and Valnain are on. The world isn't named Ivalice, either—it's somewhat amusingly named Hydaelyn.

So... Ivalice isn't Ivalice. Hell, half the Viera are from the Skatay Range, and last I checked that's not from Ivalice at all.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

You apparently dont get it. If the timeline doesnt matter, its not the same 'Ivalice' that you are quoting lore from. What establishes it being the same Ivalice is the order of which things occur. If things arent occuring in the correct order, that changes a lot of hte background information of the place.

Second, FFXIV isnt a continuation from the original FFXII. Thats been established.

Lastly, you missed my point. It's the fact that they ARE the same on the first as well as on the source thats the issue. Why are they the same when every single race gets different treatment lore wise because they have different histories. This is an inconsistency within FFXIV world building, which comes up specifically because they just dropped FFXII lore into FFXIV without any large adjustments. From a lore perspective, Viera is the outlier in FFXIV. And the reason theyre an outlier is because of meta reasons - the devs didnt create male viera and split the new races between HrothGar and Viera. To explain no male viera, they just ran with FFXII lore, even if it doesnt fit within FFXIV pre-existing lore and world building.

You're right, I don't get it, what does a timeline change? If its in Ivalice, its stilll Ivalice. Nothing changes. Unless something IN the timelane changes, which in canon has not happened.
I think you should go from timeline, to setting, or Universe. Maybe then your argument would work better, because it would make more sense to argue Ivalice in a different universe. But remember we went to a different world entirely, and things are still the same with Viera...so far

The Viera don't have different history. So theres no issue other then people just want it changed cause they want Male Viera.
Why is it wrong if they treat the Viera the same and keep their lore consistent, especially if they are the ONLY playable race that does this? Like legit, why is Viera so special on this when this is the way its always been for them.
I guess it would be interesting if they were different on the 1st, maybe we could have at least seen a Male over there, but then we all know that if we see them but cant play them the uproar would be just as bad but not worse, especially if we got Female Hrothgar.

The most Im getting here is maybe they should have stayed on course and not put in Viera, (since apparently that was the plan) because their lore and how they function seem to conflict with the playerbase so strongly. Like the world can function with them just fine, but its the playerbase thats struggling with it.
Idk. lol