Ishgard Restoration phase 3 feedback thread

[Kamome-chan]

I really don't get the issues. It's a competition. Some people win, others lose. You don't die if you lose. And it's not the end of the world if you don't get the fancy title. O wanted to get one too, but i didnt have the time for that so... I didnt get It. Simple

There is a difference between knowing you won't get the title/achievement and having your hopes completely crushed.

As someone who booted the former rank 12 on spriggan blacksmith by going ham the last day I can tell you it was so unfair for him and he probably went bed thinking about its rank 12 and title excited like it was christmas only to discover he was now rank 13 and will be rewarded the same as the guy who handed up 2 rank 1 non expert craft.

Now I did not hoarded or planned to use a strategy to get to the top and actually I wasn't expecting to be in even when spriggan entry was so low (77k for the rank 12 on blacksmith) but while the former rank 12 was crafting I was busy making gils so I could meld and optimize my score and also buy mats instead of farming them and in the end I kinda ended up crafting the last day but this is where it is a bit wrong...

So like I said I didn't expect to get a ranking but after crafting here and there I reached 50k point and at this point the last update was 54k for rank 12 saying he got 16k points more than last update. So when I reached the 50k I had now a chance for a ranking so I continued to craft but It's even worst because I could check if he was online and playing blacksmith and know I had to keep crafting but he couldn't do the same with me.

Now would I have been able to craft from the very beginning he would have still lose anyway however he probably would have pushed a little more and get rank 12. The poor guy is literally 2 k behind the rank 12 and the worst part is the rank 12 is already on the top 12 on an other crafter.

Honestly I feel bad for that guy.

[NanaWiloh]

There is a difference between knowing you won't get the title/achievement and having your hopes completely crushed.

As someone who booted the former rank 12 on spriggan blacksmith by going ham the last day I can tell you it was so unfair for him and he probably went bed thinking about its rank 12 and title excited like it was christmas only to discover he was now rank 13 and will be rewarded the same as the guy who handed up 2 rank 1 non expert craft.

Now I did not hoarded or planned to use a strategy to get to the top and actually I wasn't expecting to be in even when spriggan entry was so low (77k for the rank 12 on blacksmith) but while the former rank 12 was crafting I was busy making gils so I could meld and optimize my score and also buy mats instead of farming them and in the end I kinda ended up crafting the last day but this is where it is a bit wrong...

So like I said I didn't expect to get a ranking but after crafting here and there I reached 50k point and at this point the last update was 54k for rank 12 saying he got 16k points more than last update. So when I reached the 50k I had now a chance for a ranking so I continued to craft but It's even worst because I could check if he was online and playing blacksmith and know I had to keep crafting but he couldn't do the same with me.

Now would I have been able to craft from the very beginning he would have still lose anyway however he probably would have pushed a little more and get rank 12. The poor guy is literally 2 k behind the rank 12 and the worst part is the rank 12 is already on the top 12 on an other crafter.

Honestly I feel bad for that guy.

Its all part of competitve play ones spot in the ranking is not secure until the competition is officially over. Does not matter if you are rank 1 or rank 130 your rank is on the line until the competition ends.

[Losara]

Ranked 2nd on GSM for my server. Will say upfront that this event was fun but the way it was handled was terrible. 10 days of having to craft non-stop for a title is a poor way to design content. I would recommend a few things for crafting at least:

- Split the seasons up into smaller periods of time such as 2-3 days in total at a time. Although this may still seem a long period of time to some it is nothing compared to spending over a week ignoring your relatives and friends and having to tell them you're busy.
- Have the items expire 24 hours after they are crafted. This limits the chance people will hoard and dump items last day. It is FAR better for players to know they didn't stand a chance early on than to have hope and get crushed on the last day.
- Limit the amount of items that can be turned in each day limited to a certain amount. E.g. maximum of 50, this would then require players to get higher quality average compared to being able to spam 100s of tier 1 expert crafts.
- Change the item that needs to be crafted for each class each day of the season. For both lore reasons and for practical reasons it makes sense. It would help with point number 2. What are Ishgardian's going to do with thousands of benches / doors etc when they only have a few dozen houses being built at best?
- Add more rewards in for the top 5. Currently rank 1-5 receive the same rewards as rank 6-12. I believe the additional effort should be rewarded with something on top of the title whether it be something like Craftman's Competence VIII X 25 or a new mount.
- Add more rewards for the top 50. Currently ranks 13-50 receive the same rewards as rank 51-100. Perhaps a reward on top of the Beatus of the Firmament title such as Craftman's Competence VII X 25 or replace the rewards from 1-12 here and make the reward for 1-12 more interesting.
- Supply the crafting materials for free. This might be an unpopular opinion but as someone who could afford to buy enough mats for the season and saw many who couldn't towards the end of the season I believe the mats should be given out for free to encourage competition between all who take up the challenge of expert crafting. This might make profits not possible for gatherers but then again its strange in the first place that they are able to sell the items that were gathered for Ishgard and still get skyward points for them.

In addition to some of the other suggestions already provided I am hopeful next season will be more interesting and healthy for us to take part in.

[Listrella]

There is a difference between knowing you won't get the title/achievement and having your hopes completely crushed.

As someone who booted the former rank 12 on spriggan blacksmith by going ham the last day I can tell you it was so unfair for him and he probably went bed thinking about its rank 12 and title excited like it was christmas only to discover he was now rank 13 and will be rewarded the same as the guy who handed up 2 rank 1 non expert craft.

Now I did not hoarded or planned to use a strategy to get to the top and actually I wasn't expecting to be in even when spriggan entry was so low (77k for the rank 12 on blacksmith) but while the former rank 12 was crafting I was busy making gils so I could meld and optimize my score and also buy mats instead of farming them and in the end I kinda ended up crafting the last day but this is where it is a bit wrong...

So like I said I didn't expect to get a ranking but after crafting here and there I reached 50k point and at this point the last update was 54k for rank 12 saying he got 16k points more than last update. So when I reached the 50k I had now a chance for a ranking so I continued to craft but It's even worst because I could check if he was online and playing blacksmith and know I had to keep crafting but he couldn't do the same with me.

Now would I have been able to craft from the very beginning he would have still lose anyway however he probably would have pushed a little more and get rank 12. The poor guy is literally 2 k behind the rank 12 and the worst part is the rank 12 is already on the top 12 on an other crafter.

Honestly I feel bad for that guy.

Well not quite, he still gets the lesser title for those ranked 13-100, still I guess it must suck for him but if he was rank 12 he should know there was a pretty good chance he was going to get kicked out the top 12 on the last day.

[Jojoya]

Gathering's a bit of a mess.

There's no skill component in MIN/BOT - it comes down to having the stats to get all the node bonuses plus time to keep gathering without distractions.

FSH does have a bit of a skill component in knowing tug times and when to risk GP but it's still RNG-centric. It's hard to display a skill component when it really comes down to "did I get lucky?".

I don't have any effective suggestions for fixing either. It would be nice if something was down so gathering contributed directly to Restoration progress instead of just being a way to feed the crafters who are powering that progress.

For crafting, it's pretty sad to see someone miss out on a Saint title in one class with a score of 400,000 when someone in another class manages to get it with only 150,000.

It's likewise sad to see players able to get into the top 12 making nothing but normal level 80 recipes and never touching Expert just because they've got other players feeding them materials so they can sit and pump out the normal recipes 10-12 hours a day using a 12 step macro. There's no skill in doing that.

If this is supposed to be a competition for showing off one's skill, turn it into a skill based competition instead of a "who's got the most free time" competition.

1 - Eliminate the class categories. There are no longer actions unique to any crafting classes so keeping them separate makes no sense. Change rewards to top 100 for Saint and top 1000 for Beatus among all crafters.

2 - Create a single recipe (available in all classes) separate from the other Expert recipes with a very high maximum Collectable rating that should be unattainable (my suggestion would be 50,000 compared to the current 8,240) and using a single unique material similar to the materials we purchase to make collectables for Custom Deliveries.

Have players talk to Potkin or another NPC to sign up to compete. They receive 100 of the unique material when they sign up.

Players have until the end of the 10 day period to turn in their 100 attempts. They can use as much of the 10 day period as they want to practice using Trial Synthesis before starting their genuine attempts. This removes pressure for players to be constantly crafting and those who only have a few hours a day aren't placed at a severe disadvantage compared to those who can spend all their waking hours crafting (though there's still some with less time available to practice).

Score is the sum of the Collectability rating on the items turned in instead of some random score assignment based on that rating. That encourages crafters to push their CP usage and Durability to maximum effect instead of finishing the craft with CP and Durability to spare. It also discourages abandoning attempts where RNG was bad at the start because even a low rating will add to total score. The number of attempts should offset any very high RNG outliers.

******

Outside of the competition, increase scrip rewards and Ishgard Restoration contribution points for Expert so the amount earned per hour is at least comparable to if not better than what you'd get from turning in level 70 or 80 recipe collectables. The difference is so noticeable right now that if you're trying to earn scrip or help your world's progress, Expert is the worst option to pick.

Expert - can reliably craft 25-30 an hour dependent on RNG. At max rating, that's 2,400 scrip and 10,860 Restoration points.

Level 80 - can macro craft 100 an hour. At max rating, that's 6300 scrip and 12,400 Restoration points.

Level 70 - can 2 step (Trained Eye-Groundwork) 360 an hour. At max rating, that's 7920 scrip and 30,960 Restoration points.

That's a good example of why many crafters consider Expert dead. Unless the player wants the Pteranodon mount, the reward for the time investment is less than lower level crafting.

Also, promote the Phase achievements for Expert. It's bizarre seeing so many players coming into the forums saying the titles for the leaderboard rankings should be based on a reaching a threshold instead of ranking when we've already got separate achievements and titles available for passing thresholds.

[Liam_Harper]

I really don't get the issues. It's a competition. Some people win, others lose. You don't die if you lose. And it's not the end of the world if you don't get the fancy title. O wanted to get one too, but i didnt have the time for that so... I didnt get It. Simple

It's about feedback. This is new content, the devs will be interested in hearing what we think about it. If many of us dislike it, it's good to explain why and what we feel would improve the experience for us. I have the title myself, so I "won" as you put it, but there's a lot I'd like to see changed with the system.

Jojoya's post above sums everything up perfectly. Gathering is simply a competition in surviving sleep deprivation. Crafting should indeed have been limited turn-in's of an item with an unattainable collectibility cap. The only small tweak I'd make there is giving players 105-110 of the mat for 100 turn-ins, to give a little leeway for unavoidable disconnects or extremely bad rng.

I'd like to see them do more with Expert Crafts, it's enjoyable in itself, it's just not presented in a particularly enjoyable or rewarding format so far.

[Dallis]

All these people complaining about hoarding -- it's a valid tactic. There's no legitimate reason to have turn-ins expire, this works fine just the way it is. It's your own fault for letting your guard down.

[KageTokage]

All these people complaining about hoarding -- it's a valid tactic. There's no legitimate reason to have turn-ins expire, this works fine just the way it is. It's your own fault for letting your guard down.

As people have mentioned, it defeats the purpose of even displaying the scores before the end of the ranking period.

As far as ranking competitions go, this is probably the only instance I've seen where people are allowed to "store" points for the sake of deceiving others into thinking they don't have competition.

[UsagiAndCrepes]

I think there are a lot of things about the event which are unhealthy or incentivize and encourage self-destructive behavior. Above all else I hope they can somehow address that so that some people don't spend all day on it or let their personal life or career suffer. Maybe a personal timer that limits activities to 8 hours a day.

I feel that preparation outside of the event plays a far bigger role than either time or skill. Most people don't start the event on equal footing so ranking is a little odd because it obscures those differences in situations. I think it's better to think of it as a personal challenge.

To keep interest in the restoration proper I think it would be nicer if they had repeat competitions from previous seasons separated by a few weeks. That way you can also get the old Firmament title and the new but cancelled Ascendant title.

Personally I prefer the Ascendant title more and I feel that it's a shame it was changed to the old one.

Most of all I hope everyone had fun and aren't too hard on themselves or on others.

[Kamome-chan]

Level 80 - can macro craft 100 an hour. At max rating, that's 6300 scrip and 12,400 Restoration points.

Level 70 - can 2 step (Trained Eye-Groundwork) 360 an hour. At max rating, that's 7920 scrip and 30,960 Restoration points.

That's a good example of why many crafters consider Expert dead. Unless the player wants the Pteranodon mount, the reward for the time investment is less than lower level crafting.

Also, promote the Phase achievements for Expert. It's bizarre seeing so many players coming into the forums saying the titles for the leaderboard rankings should be based on a reaching a threshold instead of ranking when we've already got separate achievements and titles available for passing thresholds.

How do you get those value tho?
I just tried while max rank level 80 said 124 points I just received 30 points toward my score and the level 70 while said 85 points didn't give me any point.

My guess is a the 124 points/85 points counts towards the restoration gauge (the one unlocking the fate once it's full) and the skyward points is for your personal score.

Also for the ranking instead of reaching a threshold the issue is some people on some worlds won't get the title with 400k while I got it on Spriggan for like a bit more than 4 times less points.