Warriors Thoughts

[Absurdity]

Personally 4.2 WAR is probably the peak of perfection for the job and all other tanks should have been modeled after that.

To be honest, I see it slightly differently. 4.2 warrior always seemed to me like a bandaid fix where the only person who knew disappeared. It certainly made warrior "function" and was quite strong in Stormblood but it comes with it's own major issues.


It turned warrior into "spam this button 5 times for 10 seconds every 90 seconds" a design they now copied to a lot of other jobs and it shows how uninteresting of a design it truly is. The only thing that makes IR less hated than Delirium is seeing big numbers and it's synergy with Nascent Flash.


The vast majority of your dps is tied to a single cooldown. A cooldown that, depending on fight timings, makes warrior rather unflexible. You often need to use it immediately on cooldown, regardless of boss mechanics going on, to get the most usage and therefore the most dps out of it and screwing that up can cost you significant dps. Best example of it this raid tier are E6S, where you have to use it during Garuda's Vacuum Slice, making you not only take unnecessary damage but also just potentially killing you instantly. And E8S where you literally have to do the blindspot face pull to get a 5 FC IR in before the add phase...or sit on it for over 60 seconds because it's a waste to use it on addphase and not have it back up for the reopener.



Your dps at the end of a fight depends extremely heavily on killtime. The boss dies right before IR is back up? Say goodbye to doing decent dps. Add is living too long but not long enough to get 5 fellcleaves into IR? You now have to sit on your cooldown for 20+ seconds, potentially costing you a use over the whole fight, so say goodbye to doing decent dps.


Not to mention the fact that you get literally 0 benefit out of Direct Hit or crit/DH buffs that align with IR since they only increase the crit/DH chance, not it's damage, and you have 100% of that anyway. Or that the 90 seconds cooldown makes it not align with a majority of raid buffs most of the time. Now that isn't too much of an issue for warrior itself, you have things like Brotherhood that align well with your burst, but it makes you less desirable to have for jobs whose buffs do not align with your burst.


It is certainly better than 4.0/4.1 warrior but it has it's own load of issues.

[Spartan_Aoues]

I love all the people high roading
commenters: "war is hasn't improved that much there qol changes are cool but nothing really change expect for very specific situations".

High roaders: "You're overly hostile for no reason.", "Dodson, we have dodson here!.... See nobody cares!", "i'm just confused by how hostile you are to some players who are just having fun with QOL adjustments"

[BarretOblivion]

Personally 4.2 WAR is probably the peak of perfection for the job and all other tanks should have been modeled after that.

They did... and look where it got us. Every tank is somewhat a WAR 4.2 clone. DRK is 100% a clone while GNB/PLD moved towards WAR this expansion. Not a popular opinion.

[Marxam]

To be honest, I see it slightly differently...

It is certainly better than 4.0/4.1 warrior but it has it's own load of issues.

Fair enough but WAR has always been tied to a single cd burst window its just instead of the set-up for 3 FC's and Fracture berserk rotation in HW, its 5 buttons in 4.2+. The whole "spam same buttons during burst window" thing happened for ALL jobs, not just tanks. I also couldn't have predicted they would put tanks in such a state, in addition to removing TP after the great ideas they had in 4.0 that only needed to be fleshed out. 4.2 just removed the "set-up" for IR which some people liked and others hated. Despite it being spammy it still feels good to see big numbers and not having to dedicate all your melds to DH. If WAR got back Fracture maybe things would look different but as it stands sustained dps is king. With regards to raid buffs I personally think we should move back to apds instead of rdps but that's just me personally, since people seem to get caught up on the numbers too much and don't realize how much of it is fluff.

I haven't been a hardcore raider since second coil so kill times are pointless to me because if a boss is dead then a boss is dead and battle content design will always favor certain jobs over others in any specific encounter. Do we also really need to stress the minute differences in damage between the tanks in one specific endgame content when WAR's excel in other content far above the other tanks? Not everything has to be savage and glamour is the true endgame and it's the only reason I bother with savage in its current tier (assuming there are some good looking armors), unless tome gear has really shitty stats. 4.2 WAR may seem like a band aid fix but there are many other jobs that have it way worse, not exclusive to tanks but I do see Yoshi's favor to PLD's, probably becuase they are still scarred from HW.

They did... and look where it got us. Every tank is somewhat a WAR 4.2 clone. DRK is 100% a clone while GNB/PLD moved towards WAR this expansion. Not a popular opinion.

I didn't tell them to lazily copy a formula that works for one specific class aesthetic and paste on others, they did that on their own accord. I also did not like them removing TP. Clearly balance and homogenization is the team's focus because they can't be bothered to take risks with a job for fear of backlash, which ironically is happening right now.

[Shurrikhan]

The whole "spam same buttons during burst window" thing happened for ALL jobs, not just tanks.

Current "spam" jobs are, at the most inclusive...

• Bards, kind of sort of, who still want to get as many procs and DoT-refreshess as possible into burst periods (not that they've any real control over the prior, sadly),
• BLMs, kind of maybe, but the burst window well exceeds a single fire phase, so... only by the most tenuous definition,
• SMNs, via Ruin spam over most of their trances, albeit with alternating casts in Phoenix,
• Healers, who have no burst phase anyways,
• PLDs in Requiescat phase, though it's now punctuated by a finishing skill by its end,
• WARs, who only actually stopped weaving in other GCDs since 4.2,
  and DRKs since 5.0, who effectively just carbon-copied over the 4.2 WAR burst phase but with even less oGCD spice.

The only real fits for "spam the same button during burst window" in any new ways since 2.x really are... just tanks.

I also couldn't have predicted they would put tanks in such a state, in addition to removing TP after the great ideas they had in 4.0 that only needed to be fleshed out.

Plenty did though. Plenty more also assumed (rightly) that theming any one kit purely around greatest ease and functionality rather than depth, identity, cohesion, etc. (with functionality and ease a real but polishing rather than generative concern), would end up a detriment to yet more tank kits with time. Alas... (your last line).

I also did not like them removing TP.

I disliked the change too, but only insofar as it was like them admitting they've never known what to do with the mechanic and gave up on the idea that they ever would know. It amounted to Equilibrium/Tactician/Invigorate bloat; nothing more. I'd rather have that something more than lose the mechanic forever, but I don't miss the stillborn implementation we had gotten.

:: I would have loved it if Berserk and Inner Release (whether still attached to Unchained if stances were still a thing, placed alongside it, or just replacing it entirely in either case) been designed as not to feel like two halves of the same process. But, that'd require there be something worthwhile to spend Beast Gauge on than pure damage, and that Inner Release were more bankable...
And it's not like we've ever had anyone in XIV asking for more frequent, active, or nuanced active mitigation in XIV, though, so it's not like Inner Beast could possibly serve any purpose again... /s

[Spartan_Aoues]

I have heard this alot, that peak war was in Hw is that true and why?

[Hierro]

I have heard this alot, that peak war was in Hw is that true and why?

I wouldn't say that HW WAR was the peak, but I understand why they would say that. For one, that was when WAR was perhaps the highest in terms of relative DPS. A good WAR was always on the NIN's ass in terms of damage. Berserk was definitely an incredibly satisfying buff to use, and there's two reasons for that: it was a 50% increase in power, and there was no split in crits and direct crits-- if you managed to crit a fell cleave at all during berserk, it was always incredible no matter what. WAR also had notably better self-healing prowess thanks to bloodbath. There was a reason people joked that WAR was all three roles rolled up in one back in HW.

Though, I think if you were to compare current WAR and HW WAR, without factoring in things like relative DPS, then I'd be inclined to say many would prefer current WAR's feel and flow of play.

[Absurdity]

I wouldn't say that HW WAR was the peak, but I understand why they would say that. For one, that was when WAR was perhaps the highest in terms of relative DPS. A good WAR was always on the NIN's ass in terms of damage. Berserk was definitely an incredibly satisfying buff to use, and there's two reasons for that: it was a 50% increase in power, and there was no split in crits and direct crits-- if you managed to crit a fell cleave at all during berserk, it was always incredible no matter what. WAR also had notably better self-healing prowess thanks to bloodbath. There was a reason people joked that WAR was all three roles rolled up in one back in HW.

Though, I think if you were to compare current WAR and HW WAR, without factoring in things like relative DPS, then I'd be inclined to say many would prefer current WAR's feel and flow of play.

I would also add that needing a bit of setup for your burst made it that much more satisfying. I'm not saying we need the excessive setup for Inner Release we had back in 4.0/4.1 but what do you need right now? The only requirement is that you didn't fall asleep and let your Storm's Eye run out, IR literally gives you enough time on Eye to finish your burst andd reapply it.


Now let's take GnB as an example of the opposite. You always want to go into No Mercy with two cartridges and depending on whether or not Bloodfest aligns with No Mercy you also want to ideally start your burst after Brutal Shell to get your Full Gnashing combo and 4 Burst Strikes into your buff window. It isn't rocket science and the setup mostly happens on it's own but it still makes pulling it off feel more satisfying than a 5 FC IR.

[Marxam]

I have heard this alot, that peak war was in Hw is that true and why?

-Defiance increased parry rate by 2% per wrath stack (max 5), 25% hp increase, -20% dmg dealt, 20% healing
-Deliverance increased crit rate by 2% per abandon stack (max 5), 5% dmg dealt
-Certain cds gave wrath/abandon i.e. Vengeance, Berserk, etc
-Unchained negates Defiance penalty while in Defiance (20 sec)
-Berserk was 50% attack power increase (20 sec) but you were pacified for 5 secs afterwards. Note that it is Attack Power and not damage dealt so look at how much atk power you have now and multiply 1.5.
-Bloodbath was 25% heal on dmg dealt (30 secs)
-Fracture was a gcd 30 sec dot
-Maim gave you 10% dmg buff
-SE put up slashing 10% debuff (synergy with nin, and other tanks)
-SP put up 10% dmg debuff
-Only tank to have TP and HP self-utility
-Used to share cross class with pugilist and had access to mantra, featherfoot, internal release, second wind
-Mercy stroke was a niche ogcd that dealt dmg if enemy was <20% HP but was great in PvP like seal rock because it healed you if it was that killing blow and a warrior could easily solo a healer/light party if they had their cds.
-RI gave 100% parry rate from the front but dmg dealt from rear and flank is all crit. Great synergy with Awareness.

These were probably the more notable things of the WAR in HW and you had to build up for your Berserk window, which always seems to be the crux of most WAR nostalgia. It felt more impactful, two or three FC's depending on if you are MT or OT in your Berserk window with fracture. However, at the cost of being more punishing to newer players if you mess up. WAR had a high skill ceiling compared to the other tanks and had no mitigation baked into its stance unlike PLD/DRK. Xeno's aggressive style of tanking was also pretty much mandatory in most endgame tanks leading to the whole tanking in your dps stance, but the devs are also at fault for Gordias. Unchained meant that it could pull and tank a boss with no dmg penalty. Wrath/Abandon stacks meant your FC's were more calculated in the Berserk window since you had to make sure all your cds are lined up properly. 3.0 WAR was a job of risk and reward and those who risked and won were able to do more dmg than some dps while still tanking. I guess the best analogy I can give is 3.0 WAR is like driving manual, you had to work for your tanking but you had the more control vs the other tanks.

[Lyth]

ARR had two tank spots: One for a player who only played PLD, and one for a versatile player who could switch between WAR and melee dps as required. HW had two tank spots: one for a versatile player who could switch between PLD and DRK as required, and one for a player that only played WAR. Where you place WAR's heyday depends on which one of those player types you were.

HW WAR was mandatory. It made sense to have your WAR pull on most fights due to Unchained. NIN had slashing, but they generally didn't want to put it up. Much like now, HW WAR was a low APM job (25 APM on average compared to NIN and DRK's 45-50) that had bursts of activity every 90 seconds. It also had a fairly sizable dps advantage over the other tanks for fairly minimal effort, although a DRK with good uptime due to smart Plunge usage was more than capable of embarrassing you if you didn't pay attention. From a gameplay perspective, its the main point of interest was that either RI or Vengeance needed to sync up with your burst rotation so that you got an extra stack. So if you were savvy, you tried to find ways to line up your burst windows with points where you were taking damage. You could also irritate your team by forcing them to wait a minute on each pull so that you could do that special opener where you used Infuriate, then extended the timer with Vengeance, and then did your opener, all for the sake of getting one extra Fell Cleave.

That being said, Heavensward was also the nail in the coffin for Inner Beast. I think there was something satisfying in having a defensive ability that actually used a bit of timing. I think the skill highlight in HW was using PLD (of all things) to Sheltron cleaves in A3S in order to stay in Sword Oath. HW WAR was much too saturated with wannabe tanks only just catching on to 2014/2.3-era 'Man-Mode' tanking for it to offer any satisfaction to the savvy player. Good riddance to those good ole days.