Really hope next savage tier is delayed.

[FeliAiko]

There was topic about it not long ago

I also agree to let the raids to be bit delayed

more arguments here

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...threads/415217

Your link didn't work properly, so I've reposted it here:

http://https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/415217-Can-we-please-delay-Savage

[LariaKirin]

The last few pages are delving very deep into cringe territory. At least it's entertaining.

I was against it at first, but it's starting to look like a good idea after some thought.

This will completely destroy the crafting market because urgent demand is eliminated. Raiders will be able to craft their own gear.
In my opinion, crafted gear is unhealthy and awful for many reasons, but that's a different discussion.

The primary advantage I see is that it would be healthy for world first prog. If teams are able to prepare for a week, then they all start at the same point without the need (advantage) of outside help in terms of gear and consumables.

Not so sure about having one week to study normal raids - it will eliminate some of the surprises.
On one hand, it's an interesting exercise in speculation. On the other, previous experience with this game's raids allows you to predict how some of the mechanics will change.

What about delaying both Normal and Savage?

[Absurdity]

The primary advantage I see is that it would be healthy for world first prog. If teams are able to prepare for a week, then they all start at the same point without the need (advantage) of outside help in terms of gear and consumables.

Since they're all already doing exactly that I don't really see one team having an advantage over the other, but the discussion was initially never about world first prog in the first place since those people generally have no issue with getting their gear+consumables immediately, they have everything planned way in advance.

What about delaying both Normal and Savage?

Since one of the complaints was about having to rush through the raid story this would completely defeat that point of delaying savage.


The absolutely hilarious rage on the last 3 pages aside I want to elaborate on the potential issues with delaying savage.




If they delayed savage by 1 week but both tomestone gear and crafted gear were available immediately:
This obviously affects crafters, because by the time savage unlocks you are able to get 900 tomestones, enough to buy chest/pants or any other upgrade piece for your job, making part of the crafted gear completely obsolete by the time you would actually need it.


The next issue is with crafted gear being available immediately while the actual need for it is delayed by a week. This is just my rough guess but it will lead to a significant price drop and severely hinder a crafter's ability to make money.

Now you may ask, why would it? Because crafting is more accessible than ever, there are more active crafters than ever and a lot of people in this game aren't exactly the most rational.



You probably have experienced it yourself, you put up an item on the marketboard and an hour later someone has undercut you by 50% and that guy has probably then also been undercut by 10-30%, a completely nonsensical move just so they can sell their item "slightly" faster for a fraction of it's potential worth, making the item's price take an absolute nosedive.
Now imagine this scenario but none of the items actually sell and the market is completely flooded with crafted gear, people just keep undercutting each other for the miniscule chance of actually selling a piece...and this goes on for an entire week. I think you get the idea.


Now what if we delayed savage and the tomestone gear?:

Pretty much the exact same scenario except that certain pieces haven't become completely obsolete yet by the time savage is unlocked.


And lastly if we delay savage, tomestone and crafted gear:
Just like delaying normal and savage by 1 week it would completely defeat one of the purposes of delaying savage in the first place.

[ForteNightshade]

You probably have experienced it yourself, you put up an item on the marketboard and an hour later someone has undercut you by 50% and that guy has probably then also been undercut by 10-30%, a completely nonsensical move just so they can sell their item "slightly" faster for a fraction of it's potential worth, making the item's price take an absolute nosedive.
Now imagine this scenario but none of the items actually sell and the market is completely flooded with crafted gear, people just keep undercutting each other for the miniscule chance of actually selling a piece...and this goes on for an entire week. I think you get the idea.

This is a bit of an exaggeration. You'll usually make far more money with crafted gear from the non-raid community than actual raiders. People like to buy upgrades even when they absolutely do not need them. You see it all the time where people are decked out in crafted gear yet they don't raid, thus said gear is grossly overpowered. Would it impact sales? Somewhat, yes. But not by any more significant amount than they already have been. You're very mistaken if you think the gear won't still sell.

And lastly if we delay savage, tomestone and crafted gear:
Just like delaying normal and savage by 1 week it would completely defeat one of the purposes of delaying savage in the first place.

Part of the complaints are Normal mode and having to skip story if you're aiming for a week 1 clear. Pushing tome, crafted and Savage all a week back eliminates that issue. So, no, it wouldn't defeat the purpose.

In fact, the numerous raiders asking for this change specifically want the same delay we get during the first tier, albeit a week shorter.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

This is a bit of an exaggeration. You'll usually make far more money with crafted gear from the non-raid community than actual raiders. People like to buy upgrades even when they absolutely do not need them. You see it all the time where people are decked out in crafted gear yet they don't raid, thus said gear is grossly overpowered. Would it impact sales? Somewhat, yes. But not by any more significant amount than they already have been. You're very mistaken if you think the gear won't still sell.



Part of the complaints are Normal mode and having to skip story if you're aiming for a week 1 clear. Pushing tome, crafted and Savage all a week back eliminates that issue. So, no, it wouldn't defeat the purpose.

In fact, the numerous raiders asking for this change specifically want the same delay we get during the first tier, albeit a week shorter.

Does the 2 hours max it takes to do the normal modes and watch the story in them really make or break week 1 clears though?

Personally, I prefer jumping right into the savage raids after clearing normal, and would prefer them not be locked until another week has passed.


Alternatively, I would be fine with them not requiring normal to unlock savage.

[LariaKirin]

Since they're all already doing exactly that I don't really see one team having an advantage over the other, but the discussion was initially never about world first prog in the first place since those people generally have no issue with getting their gear+consumables immediately, they have everything planned way in advance.

"They're all doing exactly that" is quite a bold claim, considering it's data we do not have.
Do you know for a fact that there is not one single team that considered world first prog, but decided against it because they don't have the outside resources to be competitive?
It would be healthy because it removes the outside help requirement and allows teams to be self-sufficient.

Since one of the complaints was about having to rush through the raid story this would completely defeat that point of delaying savage.

If they delayed savage by 1 week but both tomestone gear and crafted gear were available immediately:
Now what if we delayed savage and the tomestone gear?:
And lastly if we delay savage, tomestone and crafted gear:

I don't know why you'd elaborate so much on crafted gear. I assume you're just replying generally and not to me specifically, because my post said that the crafting market will be completely destroyed.
We're in agreement here, only difference being that I don't consider the crafting market a significant problem.

It would not completely defeat the point of delaying savage because the most time-consuming part of preparation is the crafted gear.
If you don't have to worry about crafted gear, then you only have to go through Normal (and optionally cutscenes). This is a much more reasonable time window to have available before your scheduled raid.

Delaying both Normal and Savage is a compromise with the purpose of addressing the issue of studying Normal raids for a week. This seems like the best solution:

Alternatively, I would be fine with them not requiring normal to unlock savage.

[Liam_Harper]

Can't see the fear over crafters losing money. Crafted gear is already almost worthless anyway and the bulk of buyers for crafted sets are non-raiders. Not saying I agree with delays because of that, but at the same time it's not exactly a factor towards why it shouldn't be delayed.

Alternatively, I would be fine with them not requiring normal to unlock savage.

That's a decent suggestion.

[Absurdity]

Part of the complaints are Normal mode and having to skip story if you're aiming for a week 1 clear. Pushing tome, crafted and Savage all a week back eliminates that issue. So, no, it wouldn't defeat the purpose.

In fact, the numerous raiders asking for this change specifically want the same delay we get during the first tier, albeit a week shorter.

Maybe you just quoted the wrong one but I said "If we delayed both normal and savage by a week it would defeat the purpose" because the problem of rushing through normal that some people seem to have would still be the same.
If we're talking about MSQ then I really don't see the reason why you can't just wait until you're done with raiding to do the MSQ.

[ForteNightshade]

Does the 2 hours max it takes to do the normal modes and watch the story in them really make or break week 1 clears though?

Personally, I prefer jumping right into the savage raids after clearing normal, and would prefer them not be locked until another week has passed.

It depends on the group and their allotted time. For many, it's a huge inconvenience that doesn't need to exist. Speaking from my own experience this past tier, we wanted to jump into Savage at 7pm EST and planned for a 30 hour week. Unfortunately, two people worked on Tuesday and wouldn't be come until nearly 6pm. So right there, we have to either delay our start time for two people or they skip everything. They had friends log in for them and blitz the story. Myself and our SCH handled crafting for the whole team, including consumables. I spent most of my time on patch day crafting. If I had watched the cut scenes, we'd have been late.

What irks me about the whole this is the dev team delays literally everything else to accommodate story. We just had the servers shut down for no other reason than because they chose to postpone Ishgard Restoration so it didn't interrupt story. Savage is the exception, and only for two tiers.

Alternatively, I would be fine with them not requiring normal to unlock savage.

See, I wouldn't have an issue if they did this. In a previous post I had two suggestions.

1) Allow Savage to be unlocked immediately, with a warning message informing the player they may spoil such and such. Basically, the same way they handle purchasing tome gear when you're not specifically on said job.

2) Put the current raid (Gaia?) in New Game+ immediately instead of waiting until 6.0. That way, yes, we have still skip. But we can go back and complete the story at our leisure without needing an alt.

Personally, I prefer the first option because I really don't care to do normal when savage releases. But both fix the problem if they don't opt to delay anything.

Maybe you just quoted the wrong one but I said "If we delayed both normal and savage by a week it would defeat the purpose" because the problem of rushing through normal that some people seem to have would still be the same.
If we're talking about MSQ then I really don't see the reason why you can't just wait until you're done with raiding to do the MSQ.

Your underlined sentence didn't include normal. I missed it in the sentence underneath.

[Absurdity]

I don't know why you'd elaborate so much on crafted gear. I assume you're just replying generally and not to me specifically, because my post said that the crafting market will be completely destroyed.
We're in agreement here, only difference being that I don't consider the crafting market a significant problem.

You're correct, I was just replying in general to the different approaches in delaying savage.