Thank you SE: WHM is fine where it’s at.

[Gemina]

With so many threads out there complaining about healer role and how brain dead easy and boring it is apparently, I felt compelled to make a thread expressing the opposite and unpopular opinion that I think WHM is fine where it’s at (I have not played the other healing classes so this will only be about WHM). It’s not boring and I find it a good challenge to play. Let me go over some points why.

1) The variety of healing abilities. This allows me to keep up on healing when performing mechs by a party can be lackluster.
2) That I only need three main abilities for dps. I am happy that when there is downtime I don’t have to remember a rotation or figure out where I was in the rotation. The simplicity with dps allows someone like me to monitor the party’s situation while I passively dps. If I have to think about a rotation or some other complexity at the same time I’m trying to monitor the party’s health, it would be too much for me.
3) How reactive the class plays. I like that with this class I can react to almost any situation. If I had to plan for how my heals should used and when during a long encounter that would make it too difficult for me to play the class. I’m not very good at that sort of gameplay, hence why I chose this class to begin with.
4) I like the lily system. Gives me a way to access better and faster healing and a big damage dealing spell that isn’t reliant on just being used for aoe trash mobs like Holy.
5) I like the new focus on using light instead of throwing rocks. Always felt that was rather underwhelming. Aero also always felt underwhelming since I always remember it being a big damage spell in older final fantasies so it was weird to me that Aero was regulated to just a dot. Plus I feel with how WHM is kind of presented with some Of it’s purity and goodness feel to it, I felt it appropriate that it’s abilities would be more light based.
6) I like how easy it is to do solo duties with WHM. That one skill (I don’t remember what it’s called atm) where you have a shield and take no damage combined with regen makes solo content much more manageable to get through. If I do the same content as a dps such as dancer, I’m struggling too much and usually wipe an unhealthy amount of times because I can’t heal myself fast enough. Potion cooldown are waaay too long and with WHM abilities, I can make mistakes without being too punished for it. I also have the ability to restore all of my health if it gets too low, unlike a dps.
7) I like the overall feminine feel to the class. I’m a very feminine person and I like healing. Those two factors is what attracted me to try the class after my abysmal failure at trying to play dps classes. It just clicks for me and I feel a very much part of the world as I go around vanquishing evil and bringing succor to the suffering :3

Anyway, I just wanted SE to know that amidst the sea of complaints, there are those of us who enjoy where WHM is at right now. Thank you SE, WHM is just fine.

I think it is good that you are having a lot of fun with the job. WHM is probably my 3rd most played job, and I really enjoy it as well. As I was saying before, there are some drawbacks to the job when comparing it to overall job design across the game. Some of these are pretty significant.

As an example, many WHMs are happy with the Lily system, especially in comparison to what it was back in SB. However, a big problem I have with it is when you play the job optimally in casual content, Misery hardly gets used at all. Between tank self mitigation and self heals, shields, regen, ogcd heals, etc. the threshold to start using GCD heals doesn't get breached. So if you want to use Misery, you deliberately have to overheal. The gauge is also passive, and the WHM doesn't have to do squat to get their lilies. They're just given to them like the precious princesses they are. As a result, in an ideal situation, you are going to have to wait nearly two minutes into an encounter before Misery becomes available to you. The last issue I have with the lily gauge is there no lily dump skill.

So yeah, Misery is great. Can get it over 100k even, which is pretty insane to see a healer do right now. Have to remember though that DPS is returned. There is the RNG potential to have a surplus return, and you will never lose DPS by using Misery, but three GCDs were still used to heal. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is a flaw in the WHM kit. Anything but. However, this does lead back into the lily dump skill, and the lack of interaction with the Lily gauge. A lily dump skill would give the WHM a choice to expend a lily without nourishing the blood lily as only restorative abilities will do this. That alone would make WHM a little more thought inducing, while also still keeping it pretty basic.

Cure I/II, lack of cure mastery, no way to reduce their cast and recast time outside PoM, which every good WHM uses for DMG. The procs tied to them suck. Basically, we're still using elements from ARRs antiquated job kits for several jobs, and WHM is one of them. CureI/II need to get updated. Badly.

Button and skill bloat. Going back to Cure I/II, these are homogenized with AST Benefic I/II, however AST has the aspected augments to them. What I feel needs to be done is Cure Mastery Changes Cure I into Cure II (ST), and Cure III into Cure IV (AoE). Medica into Medica II also happens as a result of the mastery system, and Medica changed to reduce its potency, but add a regen effect. Now these damn skills will all make sense, and two needless buttons are eliminated.

Fluid Aura belongs on that list as well, but I don't want it deleted, I want them to do something with it, other than take away what it does. It's reached rock bottom, so devs either have to stick a fork in it, or do something with it.

WHM clipping issues are not as prominent in casual content, but in highend prog content, you will see and feel it rear its ugly head, and it's frustrating. This has been going on for a really long time now, so I am going to guess that the devs just don't see it as an issue. We see it as no one over there plays WHM.

There are other things too, but I will just leave it at that. I believe that should be enough of an exposition to merit that job has problems despite how fun it is to play. A lot of the good things about it, does make some of these woes a little easier to deal with. It's a fine healer, that just needs a few adjustments to make it even better.

[Limonia]

A lily dump skill would give the WHM a choice to expend a lily without nourishing the blood lily as only restorative abilities will do this. That alone would make WHM a little more thought inducing, while also still keeping it pretty basic.

How exactly would you implement a lily dump skill? I don't know if I understand it right, but wouldn't it become the same as Energy Drain? Like, bad SCH always only ever use all of their Aetherflow stacks for Energy Drain even if the party absolutely needs healing. You wouldn't be "allowed" to use heals because they could be DPS instead. Like, even if they made Afflatus Misery DPS neutral, they would just randomly overheal with their lilies just to get Misery under raid buffs. So what I just mean is that you would have to be very careful with how you implement something like that. What is your idea about it?

[bundythenoob]

How exactly would you implement a lily dump skill? I don't know if I understand it right, but wouldn't it become the same as Energy Drain? Like, bad SCH always only ever use all of their Aetherflow stacks for Energy Drain even if the party absolutely needs healing. You wouldn't be "allowed" to use heals because they could be DPS instead. Like, even if they made Afflatus Misery DPS neutral, they would just randomly overheal with their lilies just to get Misery under raid buffs. So what I just mean is that you would have to be very careful with how you implement something like that. What is your idea about it?

the way I see it, why not keep the lily generation while in combat, but make Lillies generate faster while you're casting dps skills and then make Divine Beni a lily skill? that might make it a little more on demand too. perhaps an AOE beni post lv 80?

[Cheremia]

the way I see it, why not keep the lily generation while in combat, but make Lillies generate faster while you're casting dps skills and then make Divine Beni a lily skill? that might make it a little more on demand too. perhaps an AOE beni post lv 80?

I don't want to go back to Benison being locked behind Lillies. It felt horrible.

WHM already isn't allowed to have AoE shields for some reason outside of Wings while the other 2 healers can do both. Even Benison has a cooldown so while it is usually up for Tankbusters and such, i don't want the only "on demand shield" whm has... to be locked behind Lillies... again....
I would rather take an useful Fluid Aura as a lilly skill than my only shield that would also not be used most of the time which would also make it kind of useless as lilly skill.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't want to go back to Benison being locked behind Lillies. It felt horrible.

I feel like you're conflating two very, very different things here.

The last time Benison was on the Lily system, that Lily system required GCD heals to be cast to generate Lilies (and thereby shorten oGCD CDs, including Benison's).

Now, Lily's are generated every 30 seconds, mirroring Benison's current 30-second CD, which Bundy suggested switching back to a Lily requirement alone. With the context Bundy suggested, however, that effective CD (the time required to generate a Lily) could be far shorter than that when healing (or, depending on the generation requirement, just casting any spell) intensively, potentially allowing one to cast Divine Benison across three targets back to back, having generated their 3 required Lilies over far less than 30 seconds each. That would reduce the Lily skill output floor, true, but the output ceiling could be far higher. Moreover, such a shift would likely include an increase to DB's own power, especially if it were consequently moved to the GCD to mirror the other Lily skills. Slapping down an idea because of how it worked in an entirely different system doesn't seem particularly reasonable.

[Gemina]

I don't want to go back to Benison being locked behind Lillies. It felt horrible.

WHM already isn't allowed to have AoE shields for some reason outside of Wings while the other 2 healers can do both. Even Benison has a cooldown so while it is usually up for Tankbusters and such, i don't want the only "on demand shield" whm has... to be locked behind Lillies... again....
I would rather take an useful Fluid Aura as a lilly skill than my only shield that would also not be used most of the time which would also make it kind of useless as lilly skill.

The issue with SB benison was the lily mechanic didn't do anything other than reduce CD durations. While I won't say Benison should be the dump skill, it now has more merit to be one. While the lily dump skill won't nourish the blood lily, it is possible for it to reduce the time it takes to get the next lily, or there can be something else the WHM does that accomplishes this. The idea is not to dish out more Misery, but to address the over healing and a full lily gauge that is drifting as a result of trying to avoid that.

If the lily dump skill isn't offensive or restorative, then it's going to have to be favorable utility. We can theorycraft on what this skill should be and do, but I also see no reason why Benison cannot be placed here under the new conditions and also either be put on the GCD like the other lily skills, or give it reasonably short cool down.

Does anyone object to WHM being able to whip out multiple Benisons? They can only toss out three, but they would obviously not want to do this.

[Semirhage]

The issue with SB benison was the lily mechanic didn't do anything other than reduce CD durations. While I won't say Benison should be the dump skill, it now has more merit to be one. While the lily dump skill won't nourish the blood lily, it is possible for it to reduce the time it takes to get the next lily, or there can be something else the WHM does that accomplishes this. The idea is not to dish out more Misery, but to address the over healing and a full lily gauge that is drifting as a result of trying to avoid that.

If the lily dump skill isn't offensive or restorative, then it's going to have to be favorable utility. We can theorycraft on what this skill should be and do, but I also see no reason why Benison cannot be placed here under the new conditions and also either be put on the GCD like the other lily skills, or give it reasonably short cool down.

Does anyone object to WHM being able to whip out multiple Benisons? They can only toss out three, but they would obviously not want to do this.

It'd need number tweaking at the very least. Benison is 500 potency, while Flower Cure 2 is 700. Under almost all circumstances, that makes it inferior, especially if it doesn't even refund any damage toward the Blood Lily.

[Gemina]

It'd need number tweaking at the very least. Benison is 500 potency, while Flower Cure 2 is 700. Under almost all circumstances, that makes it inferior, especially if it doesn't even refund any damage toward the Blood Lily.

Indeed it would, but probably not in the way that you think. If you're thinking 700pot shield, that isn't happening. Even if it was that potency, that GCD is still not going to be refunded. However, this is redundant because the idea with Misery is to refund the 3 GCDs that are used to nourish the blood lily to full. If WHM can nourish the lily by whipping out shields, then it immediately changes the identity of this job. Not happening. The pot on Benison at best would remain the same with this change, but the more likely scenario is it would be reduced due to no longer being bound by the 30s CD.

The dump is exactly that, a dump. The WHM uses this either at their own discretion, or to prevent their lily gauge from capping. It cannot be offensive, because once again it will change the identity of the job and turn the afflatus restorative skills into the abilities bad WHMs use. We would want to avoid that.

This does not mean that Benison can't return some other kind of benefit along with it to help give it incentive. In fact, you probably could delete PoM and make it a buff as a result of using Benison. That change right there would leave this lily dump conversation outright; and WHM gameplay would now focus on maintaining their PoM buff, making them the speedy healer, but that would obviously effect their GCDs used on damage as well; meaning WHM will not be playing optimally if they don't use Benison at least once before PoM runs out.

[KDSilver]

How exactly would you implement a lily dump skill? I don't know if I understand it right, but wouldn't it become the same as Energy Drain? Like, bad SCH always only ever use all of their Aetherflow stacks for Energy Drain even if the party absolutely needs healing.

By slapping a 1min30 CD on it.
It's the time needeed to generate 3 lilies and the blood lily.
This way, if you were about to overcap your lily (cause there really are some situation it happen), you can prevent that and avoid people to mad wasting their lily on the damaging spell instead, leaving their co-healer doing all the work.

That or, allow misery to be used whenever you use a lily with a potency of 300 - 600 - 900 which could open more weaving window and mobility.

Side note : I'm not saying my suggestion is good. But I understand why it's a concern (needeed something else than healing to dumb lilies).
But surely, what I don't want to is not having option because of "bad player". Because if we start arguing with this, there are so many things we shouldn't do or think to fix or enhance jobs gameplay in general.

[Liam_Harper]

That or, allow misery to be used whenever you use a lily with a potency of 300 - 600 - 900 which could open more weaving window and mobility.

I think that would always be a loss used at 1 or 2 unfortunately. For example, 3 Rapture + 3 Misery at 1 lily = 900 potency for 6 GcD. 3 Rapture, 2 Glare, 1 Misery = 1500 potency for 6 GcD. You just wouldn't do it, not even for movement.

Maybe something like:
Fluid Aura
Cast: Instant - Recast 2.5
Deals Water damage with a potency of 300.
Can only be executed after accumulating 3 stacks of Flowing Rapids, granted by using any Ability.
Additional Effect: Binds Target. 10s

(Reminder, Abilities are oGcd's)