The toxicity starting to happen.

[Lumivyory]

Just because you may be incapable of doing something doesn't mean other people are. I've had aggro on the majority of mobs in the final Bardam's pull as a SCH in leveling gear, it's all doable.

What I dont get is the motivation for trying to kill a healer. If you don't want to pull like a normal person for fear of wiping why would you kill your healer which will likely result in a wipe? It's bad cyclic logic. If you're not afraid of wiping due to your need to stroke your tank ego why are you afraid of wiping to pulling normally?

Just because you didn't die on that pull it doesn't mean you couldn't potentially die on a different pull. I've tanked as a healer before, sometimes you die, sometimes you live. I didn't say it wasn't doable but a healer isn't suited for taking so much damage.

Where did I ever say anything about killing someone to begin with? You were the one to assume that :')
Do I let people tank when they pull extra mobs? Yes. Do I let them die? No, not usually. I'd only let them die if they were told to stop and didn't listen.

What I don't get is why it's so hard to use a chat instead of silently pulling mobs.

[SturmChurro]

Just because you didn't die on that pull it doesn't mean you couldn't potentially die on a different pull. I've tanked as a healer before, sometimes you die, sometimes you live. I didn't say it wasn't doable but a healer isn't suited for taking so much damage.

Where did I ever say anything about killing someone to begin with? You were the one to assume that :')
Do I let people tank when they pull extra mobs? Yes. Do I let them die? No, not usually. I'd only let them die if they were told to stop and didn't listen.

What I don't get is why it's so hard to use a chat instead of silently pulling mobs.

That is bannable by the way. If you refuse to heal, rather if you "tell them to stop and they didn't listen", and that is why you didn't heal. Doesn't matter if you did it only once. If you haven't gotten banned be glad they didn't report you, well if you put your little reasoning in the chat.

[Ranaku]

That is bannable by the way. If you refuse to heal, rather if you "tell them to stop and they didn't listen", and that is why you didn't heal. Doesn't matter if you did it only once. If you haven't gotten banned be glad they didn't report you, well if you put your little reasoning in the chat.

Depends on it, if the tank tries to tank everything and dies cause the group is undergeared and he is told to tank smaller pulls and does it again and you let him then die and afterwards kick him that is totally fine and not bannable.

[jameseoakes]

That isn't the argument though. You're moving the goalpost.

You don't have to like a DPS/healer pulling additional mobs but you refusing to take aggro to "teach them a lesson" immediately puts you at fault because their intentions aren't to cause a wipe. Yours are, even if indirectly. Nevertheless, we're now back to arguing the tank sets the pace and all other parties just have to accept it. Which, in my opinion, is nonsense. If anyone should determine the pace (and I don't believe they should), it'd be the healer since they control your HP.



One more time. It is not griefing.

Griefing means you're deliberately trying to sabotage someone. The equivalent here would be a healer using Rescue only to inadvertently get the DPS killed when said player was perfectly safe but may be trying to sneak in one last hit before moving. Is that griefing? No. You didn't intent to kill the DPS, just as the DPS pulling extra mobs didn't intend to cause a wipe. It just happened.

The tank should be the one doing the pulling, any consequences are the fault of the person that pulled, it would be best if the tank picks them up but if people are deliberately pulling more than the tank wants with talking about it first they have responsibility for them. You don't pull for the tank with maybe the expectation of a stray mob or patrolling adds that are going to aggro the group anyway. The fault lays with the person that pulled not the tank he was doing his job with the pull he did, if you not happy with that you should talk to them and maybe compromise with them rather than be petty about it.

[linayar]

Nevertheless, we're now back to arguing the tank sets the pace and all other parties just have to accept it. Which, in my opinion, is nonsense.

The tank doesn't set the pace. The weakest link (mostly between tank and healer, though DPS can factor in) sets the pace. If the tank wants to pull big, but the healer doesn't, then the tank should pull small, and likewise if the tank wants to pull small.

[Lumivyory]

That is bannable by the way. If you refuse to heal, rather if you "tell them to stop and they didn't listen", and that is why you didn't heal. Doesn't matter if you did it only once. If you haven't gotten banned be glad they didn't report you, well if you put your little reasoning in the chat.

We're talking about tanking here though. If they were asked to not pull monsters before the tank does and they just ignored the request then it's their problem. When you're in a party you can't just do whatever pleases you, it's teamwork. A person that doesn't even respond might as well be a bot.

Also since when is it bannable to refuse to heal someone who's stubbornly refusing to work with the party? I'd rather use mana on more important things like keeping the tank alive.

[SturmChurro]

Depends on it, if the tank tries to tank everything and dies cause the group is undergeared and he is told to tank smaller pulls and does it again and you let him then die and afterwards kick him that is totally fine and not bannable.

I never said kicking was bannable. Refusing to heal however is. Rather, putting in chat that you won't heal because of x or y. They have banned for that before. That's why you see a largely silent community in general, by the way.

We're talking about tanking here though. If they were asked to not pull monsters before the tank does and they just ignored the request then it's their problem. When you're in a party you can't just do whatever pleases you, it's teamwork. A person that doesn't even respond might as well be a bot.

Also since when is it bannable to refuse to heal someone who's stubbornly refusing to work with the party? I'd rather use mana on more important things like keeping the tank alive.

No, you can just do whatever pleases you actually. You can be a DPS who refuses to do any kind of aoe "difference in playstyle", you tell that player to do aoe YOU get banned. That is how moderation works in this game. THAT is why this game is silent. Your best option is to kick rather than not heal, or just heal them, it would be faster anyway. For that matter, letting a dps die will make the fight take longer too, EVEN IF he was only doing single target damage. Unless you are raising constantly (if you aren't healing, for example) you should have no trouble managing your MP either. Refusing to heal is just nonsensical in general, in my opinion.

It's bannable when you put it in chat. You can grief all day and night, just don't put it in chat. In case people misunderstand, it is, but it isn't.

[Lumivyory]

No, you can just do whatever pleases you actually. You can be a DPS who refuses to do any kind of aoe "difference in playstyle", you tell that player to do aoe YOU get banned. That is how moderation works in this game. THAT is why this game is silent. Your best option is to kick rather than not heal, or just heal them, it would be faster anyway. For that matter, letting a dps die will make the fight take longer too, EVEN IF he was only doing single target damage. Unless you are raising constantly (if you aren't healing, for example) you should have no trouble managing your MP either. Refusing to heal is just nonsensical in general, in my opinion.

It's bannable when you put it in chat. You can grief all day and night, just don't put it in chat.

There isn't really a point to put that in chat if the person didn't respond. They obviously aren't reading or are ignoring.
I don't think refusing to heal a griefer is griefing. Pulling more than a tank can take can cause a wipe, and if the DPS who caused it is not even responding then why would we heal or tank for them? That's kind of ridiculous if mods think that we should be healing bots and trolls that don't want to cooperate. We aren't ruining the experience for them, it's quite the other way around.

[SturmChurro]

There isn't really a point to put that in chat if the person didn't respond. They obviously aren't reading or are ignoring.
I don't think refusing to heal a griefer is griefing. Pulling more than a tank can take can cause a wipe, and if the DPS who caused it is not even responding then why would we heal or tank for them? That's kind of ridiculous if mods think that we should be healing bots and trolls that don't want to cooperate. We aren't ruining the experience for them, it's quite the other way around.

People have literally been banned for not healing someone in almost this exact same situation. The problem was they put in chat that they wouldn't heal if they continued to do it. The GM banned them because of that. They admitted intent in chat. I disagree with not healing them in general, personally. Kick them instead, if it's that bad. Not tanking or healing will just cause more problems, all because the tank/healer/dps wants to play games like this.

[Veis_Alveare]

We're talking about tanking here though. If they were asked to not pull monsters before the tank does and they just ignored the request then it's their problem. When you're in a party you can't just do whatever pleases you, it's teamwork. A person that doesn't even respond might as well be a bot.

Also since when is it bannable to refuse to heal someone who's stubbornly refusing to work with the party? I'd rather use mana on more important things like keeping the tank alive.

No one's role expectation is "read the chat box" nice as that might be. You typing to not pull more can very well be falling on deaf ears, at that point you're literally letting people die just to prove a point. Hence, petty and egotistical.

I really wish people just knew more about this game. If any of you knew what you were talking about you'd not be making these tired arguments because you'd understand you can just tank it its fine but instead because you died one time to a Netflix healer in tam-tara now you've gotta single pull Mt. Gulg.

It is virtually always possible to at minimum double pull. You can have a healbot and single target dps and not only will double pulls work but it you're doing your job as a tank and pushing out your own AoE damage itll still be faster than singles. Instead we need to waste everyone's time for no good reason.

Like I said I hope you try that sort of thing with me some day. I'll heal through it and get a kick going nice and quick after.