The toxicity starting to happen.

[Nestama]

The healer/DPS could just not pull the extra adds? If people are so worried about pull sizes they could just play tanks themselves rather than pushing this kind of drivel

Why can't the tank just grab the extra adds the DPS/Healer pulled and then request they not do that? Why do they get to be petty and grief?

[Lumivyory]

All this implies I'd need saving, though.

Realistically with a pull not being tanked enemies are going to be hitting at the very least the healer and the a dps, likely both.

A tank is a luxury, just like a healer is. If people are playing with their brains turned on you dont need both to really participate, even on larger pulls.

But hey, go on being petty I guess. I hope I get you in a roulette one day so I can tank a pull as WHM while healing myself and the dps just to help get that ego in check.

Maybe if you have a lvl 80 gear in a lvl 15 dungeon you can tank a bunch without dying. But when your ilvl and the dungeon are about the same - good luck healing yourself through a big pull. Depending on the levels and gear of the party even the tank could die from a big pull which actually happens a lot when a low level tank is forced to pull more.

Did you even read what I said? Expecting your party members to have a decency to ask for bigger pulls isn't being petty. Honestly tired of people thinking they know better and rushing ahead instead of communicating with each other.

Oh yes, I have a big ego because I want people to stop acting like they know everything and can dictate others how much to pull and how to run a dungeon.

As a WHM main I feel ashamed when I see other healers pulling things before the tank.
Oh but it's so hard to just be nice to others and use your fingers to ask the tank for a bigger pull instead of using them to do something that isn't a part of your job.

Why can't the tank just grab the extra adds the DPS/Healer pulled and then request they not do that? Why do they get to be petty and grief?

If only they listened to that. Some will probably just leave. Everyone's always in a rush and always know better. It's painfully common nowadays and hard to make people listen and understand that you aren't comfortable with a bigger pull. Sometimes letting them tank is the only way to make them stop.

[Veis_Alveare]

Maybe if you have a lvl 80 gear in a lvl 15 dungeon you can tank a bunch without dying. But when your ilvl and the dungeon are about the same - good luck healing yourself through a big pull. Depending on the levels and gear of the party even the tank could die from a big pull which actually happens a lot when a low level tank is forced to pull more.

Did you even read what I said? Expecting your party members to have a decency to ask for bigger pulls isn't being petty. Honestly tired of people thinking they know better and rushing ahead instead of communicating with each other.

Oh yes, I have a big ego because I want people to stop acting like they know everything and can dictate others how much to pull and how to run a dungeon.

As a WHM main I feel ashamed when I see other healers pulling things before the tank.
Oh but it's so hard to just be nice to others and use your fingers to ask the tank for a bigger pull instead of using them to do something that isn't a part of your job.



If only they listened to that. Some will probably just leave. Everyone's always in a rush and always know better. It's painfully common nowadays and hard to make people listen and understand that you aren't comfortable with a bigger pull. Sometimes letting them tank is the only way to make them stop.

Just because you may be incapable of doing something doesn't mean other people are. I've had aggro on the majority of mobs in the final Bardam's pull as a SCH in leveling gear, it's all doable.

What I dont get is the motivation for trying to kill a healer. If you don't want to pull like a normal person for fear of wiping why would you kill your healer which will likely result in a wipe? It's bad cyclic logic. If you're not afraid of wiping due to your need to stroke your tank ego why are you afraid of wiping to pulling normally?

[jameseoakes]

Why can't the tank just grab the extra adds the DPS/Healer pulled and then request they not do that? Why do they get to be petty and grief?

Why did the DPS have to be petty and grief? Two wrongs don't make a right but the blame doesn't lay solely on the tank

Edit: Like I said if the pace of a dungeon is so important to people maybe they should play tanks if they don't want to do that try communicating and maybe compromise a bit.

[Vortuna]

All these petty "you-pull-you-tank" single pullers in this thread compels me to continue playing tank to the best of my ability, to inspire other newer tank players or wanna-be tanks just as others inspired me before.

[Delis]

As a tank I don't mind if dps or healer pulls more adds. Sure it may help to say that, but in the heat of the moment it might be quicker to just grab the mobs instead of stopping what they are doing and type, or they may be on a controller. Ever try to type on that? No thanks. Them going and grabbing the extra pack IS their way of telling me, "hey, we are doing good I think we can handle more." Then from then on out I will make sure to pull more. As a tank my job is to grab hate, which is stupid easy these days so I can rip hate off any dps/healer easily if they pull. As well as use my cool downs to help mitigate damage, nothing in about the job says I have to be the one pulling, like I said threast is a non issue in the game now, so does it really matter who touches the mobs first anymore?

[TaleraRistain]

Yeah that's the downside of it sadly. If the healer decides to heal the DPS and mobs go for them I'll of course save the healer. But sometimes I see likeminded healers that are tired of DPS pulling things too and they just don't heal them :')

If the dps pulls on their own (purposefully, accidents are a different thing) and the mobs will go back and the tank doesn't peel, there's no benefit to trying to keep them alive versus letting them die and rezzing. Then only one party member goes down and we can continue on, hopefully with a more careful dps this time.

It really is about communication. If our party is doing good at small pulls and I think we'd be good with bigger, I just tell them something like "Hey, I've got your back if you want to go crazier on the pulls. But I'm good here, too". Most tanks have given it a try unless they knew for sure due to being under-geared or inexperienced that they weren't ready for it. The important part is 1) letting the tank know they have your full support and 2) keeping the choice in their hands.

If they say no, then I just dps more since they're usually pretty okay with just a Regen or such on the smaller pulls. I'm a healer. Doesn't everyone always bitch that we're supposed to adjust? Or is that only when dps want to stand in everything and we're doing it wrong if we adjust to fully support our party the best way we can?

[wereotter]

Why can't the tank just grab the extra adds the DPS/Healer pulled and then request they not do that? Why do they get to be petty and grief?

As the person who made the original comment... allow me to be clear here.

I normally would do the "standard" pulls at least in the end game dungeons. When I'm not, it's because I'm in a call with the healer and the healer is telling me in voice chat that they aren't comfortable with any more than what I've got. Or there are also times where I can tell the healer is struggling with smaller packs, so I adjust accordingly. And lastly, I always check the healer's gear before doing a leveling dungeon, so if I see them in gear that's lower than it probably should be for the dungeon we're in, I'll pull smaller. So when the DPS pull those extra mobs, they've made a decision that they think they know better than the person actually expected to pull up the extra slack.

So the situation is more complex than just mere pettiness, though sure, it is. Either way, the DPS shouldn't be the ones determining the size of a pull since they're the two people in the party least impacted by large verses smaller pulls.

[SturmChurro]

Just because you may be incapable of doing something doesn't mean other people are. I've had aggro on the majority of mobs in the final Bardam's pull as a SCH in leveling gear, it's all doable.

What I dont get is the motivation for trying to kill a healer. If you don't want to pull like a normal person for fear of wiping why would you kill your healer which will likely result in a wipe? It's bad cyclic logic. If you're not afraid of wiping due to your need to stroke your tank ego why are you afraid of wiping to pulling normally?

Yeah.. if you are wearing leveling gear you can still tank fine, more than fine, in leveling dungeons.. You can tank all of the dungeons 71-80 (and do big pulls) in augmented scaevan, as an example. They will always blame the tank if they wipe, but I know it's actually the dps, healer, or a combination of the two a lot of the time. Taking two centuries to kill a big pull and having to use up major cds is on them. Unfortunately. DPS often refuse to do aoe, on top of the healer never doing damage. Holy can help quite a bit in pulls..

[ForteNightshade]

The healer/DPS could just not pull the extra adds? If people are so worried about pull sizes they could just play tanks themselves rather than pushing this kind of drivel

That isn't the argument though. You're moving the goalpost.

You don't have to like a DPS/healer pulling additional mobs but you refusing to take aggro to "teach them a lesson" immediately puts you at fault because their intentions aren't to cause a wipe. Yours are, even if indirectly. Nevertheless, we're now back to arguing the tank sets the pace and all other parties just have to accept it. Which, in my opinion, is nonsense. If anyone should determine the pace (and I don't believe they should), it'd be the healer since they control your HP.

Why did the DPS have to be petty and grief? Two wrongs don't make a right but the blame doesn't lay solely on the tank

Edit: Like I said if the pace of a dungeon is so important to people maybe they should play tanks if they don't want to do that try communicating and maybe compromise a bit.

One more time. It is not griefing.

Griefing means you're deliberately trying to sabotage someone. The equivalent here would be a healer using Rescue only to inadvertently get the DPS killed when said player was perfectly safe but may be trying to sneak in one last hit before moving. Is that griefing? No. You didn't intent to kill the DPS, just as the DPS pulling extra mobs didn't intend to cause a wipe. It just happened.