The toxicity starting to happen.

[wereotter]

Bottom line, the person who wants bigger pulls always wins. If I'm the tank I'm gonna pull what I want. If I'm not the tank and you're sitting there bashing away at 2 mobs you bet I'm gonna pull more and bring them to you. Then you hit your AoE buttons to take them off me, simple as that.

It's nice you think that...

But when I'm tanking if someone else pulls mobs for me, they can have them. I'll swap to single target rotation and just stand there once the things I pulled are dead ESPECIALLY if it's the DPS pulling extra mobs (and I'm not talking about a DPS who found a patrolling mob while trying to do their positionals)

But to the original post... I can say that I started the game in 2.0 and I can see a definite difference now than I did back then. Recently started a new toon to play through with a friend, who started as healer, and can say that even when they say they're new to the game, tank will still pull wall to wall while he's not confident in his skills. And rather than help players improve, offer advice, maybe pull back if a player is still learning the game, people get angry.

I can think of no better example than when I started (also as a healer) struggling to get through Brayflox since I wasn't very good at healing at the time. Back in 2.0, players were very willing to do everything they could to make things work and get through the dungeon together. Now if you fail, people are toxic. They, without any advise, will just tell you to get good, or "go learn your job!" and vote dismiss the player who is struggling rather than try to help people do better.

This is only getting worse now that the free trial extends through Heavensward and we're getting a massive influx of new players in lower level content who haven't played at all before. We could stand to be more welcoming, at the very least to people who still have sprouts over their head.

[Burmecia]

But when I'm tanking if someone else pulls mobs for me, they can have them. I'll swap to single target rotation

This is like... my favourite flavour of pettiness <3 Ngl.
I raid so my ilvl tends to be up to date, so it is not gear question. Or that I could not. I pull wall to wall when you let me do my thing in peace.
...
I am only giving the pulling DPS the courtesy I like to be shown to myself. How did the other cliche go? "You pull it you tank it"?

[Lumivyory]

Bottom line, the person who wants bigger pulls always wins. If I'm the tank I'm gonna pull what I want. If I'm not the tank and you're sitting there bashing away at 2 mobs you bet I'm gonna pull more and bring them to you. Then you hit your AoE buttons to take them off me, simple as that.

You spank it - you tank it, simple as that.

I am only giving the pulling DPS the courtesy I like to be shown to myself.

Except as a DPS I'd never even run ahead of the tank, let alone pull something on purpose.
I find it disrespectful to the tank and would never think that the tank has to take mobs off me because I decided to pull them.

[Clover_Blake]

I find it disrespectful to the tank and would never think that the tank has to take mobs off me because I decided to pull them.

I've been done that several times when I played tank. I wish I could simply let those impatient dps tank the mobs they pulled themselves, but I think that'd only put extra stress on the poor healer. The healer is not at fault ;;

[Reldhir]

I'm team big boi pulls xD

Be nice to sprouts though! new people be new people!

BUT the ratbag tanks that turtle and get pissy when as a Healer you pull mobs to them while healing everyone AND tank mobs AND do AoE damage THOSE guys, THOSE "tanks" that get upset because you do your job, their job and the DPS' job...kick em

Never understood why every few dungeons you get "tanks" that throw a hissyfit xD DO YOUR JOB it's ridiculously easy to hold hate. One AoE skill with your tank stance up and the mobs are going nowhere. Do your job get punched in the face by lotsa monsters, the healer will give hugs.

PRO TIP: If a healer says "pull as much as you want" chances are they've seen every manner of loltank-mc-nocooldowns and are still confident in being able to keep everyone alive. It is absolutely do-able. So go nuts.

Tanks, you might think you are the "leader" of the party because you run in first. You're not. It's a joint effort. A great tank is invaluable. A hissy, spiteful, turtle "I'll switch off stance" tank... you...YOU are most definitely UNvaluble and at that turtle pace and petty attitude nearly every dungeon can be completed without you lol. You can leave.

In saying that, I'm only talking about the tanks with horrible attitudes and there are quite a few. Be nice to the new people though! especially when they're nice, we want those people to get better at the game and stick around! Sometimes peeps aren't that great at the game, but if you have a great attitude, you can get away with almost anything!

PRO TIP #2: Pulling at least 2 groups at a time works out better for everyone's cooldowns. Provided everyone is using their AoE skills, a group of 3 mobs will die just as fast as a group of 6, 9, 12... *as long as they all fit under the AoE damage*

[Lumivyory]

I've been done that several times when I played tank. I wish I could simply let those impatient dps tank the mobs they pulled themselves, but I think that'd only put extra stress on the poor healer. The healer is not at fault ;;

Yeah that's the downside of it sadly. If the healer decides to heal the DPS and mobs go for them I'll of course save the healer. But sometimes I see likeminded healers that are tired of DPS pulling things too and they just don't heal them :')

[Veis_Alveare]

So you agree that if people want to play a certain way and insist on doing so that they should make their own party, correct? Whether the pulls are big or small?

Nope!

If you want to go against the grain you should do it in a premade.

The grain is full pulls in level capped content and at least doubles below cap with a few exceptions for super low level stuff where no one has aoe.

If you feel the need to do wall-to-wall in Sastasha, make a premade.

If you feel the need to single pull Hero's Gauntlet, premade.

Both of those things are irregular. Both should not just expect other people to accommodate you.

You spank it - you tank it, simple as that.

As a healer like... cool?

But if you decide not to tank things I pull then I can decide not to heal you at all.

See where the pettiness goes?

[Aldora]

I just don't really get what the fuss is all about. Aren't we capable to communicate with each other anymore? It took me a while to get used and confident with tanking (started tanking back in 2.0) and since then i've joined the "pulling wall to wall" group. However, i know that since we're mostly playing with random people, that you will never know who you're grouped up with, unless you speak up or test the waters.

So, if i enter a dungeon as a tank, the first thing i do is greet the group and ask the healer if it's OK if i do big pulls. If i get a "yes", then wall to wall pulls it is, if not, i'll tone it down. If i get no reply, then wall to wall pulls it is unless things turn out differently.

However, if i enter a dungeon as a healer, i would expect tanks to do wall to wall pulls. If they stop at the first pack, i'll walk just a little past them to indicate that i can handle more. If the tank still stays at the first pack, that's fine by me. I'll simply DPS more. I'll even say that it's ok to pull more, but i'll never force it. The few additional minutes i'll be in the duty doesn't bother me, as long as the run is going smoothly.

What does rub me the wrong way, is when others neglect gearing up for the content their running, but that has nothing to do with being toxic. It's just being lazy, if you enter a level 79 dungeon with unaugmented and unmelded level 70 gear. However, i won't say anything about it, unless they also don't use their toolkit properly. If a tank pulls wall to wall, and its HP literally drops down to critical levels in a matter of seconds while being healed, then they need to rethink their strategy.

The same goes for the moments where both the tank and the healer are properly geared but it takes forever to kill the pack(s). If the tank runs out of cooldowns, the healers MP is running on fumes and there are still more then enough enemies smacking the tank, then the DPS are either picking their nose, are undergeared or not experienced enough with their job to handle big pulls.

These 2 examples are usually during runs where no one says a word and just go, running around like they're headless chickens. Big pulls being the norm for instanced duties are all fine and dandy, but forcing people into it because you want to is not the way to go. Running content like dungeons is a joint effort of the team, not of 1 person. If the run is not going as expected, either communicate about in a respectable manner or tone down the expectations.

Everyone makes mistakes, even during "easy" content (even veterans). Just... Don't fly off the handle if it's not going the way you want it to.

[LittleImp]

It's nice you think that...

But when I'm tanking if someone else pulls mobs for me, they can have them. I'll swap to single target rotation and just stand there once the things I pulled are dead ESPECIALLY if it's the DPS pulling extra mobs (and I'm not talking about a DPS who found a patrolling mob while trying to do their positionals)

The other DPS will very likely clip those extra mobs with their aoes, and the healer may heal the DPS you are trying to let die (They may even be a whm with medica II rolling). This now puts both of those players in a situation where they're the next target, while you continue to do suboptimal damage hitting single targets out of spite, or even doing nothing at all.

The healer in particular is now forced into a situation where they either try to waste resources healing the person, or waste a huge amount of mana rezing them after they die. The third option is you now try to complete a large pull with only one DPS, which is going to drain additional CDs from everyone.

Congratulations: You've just griefed your entire party, including two people that likely had nothing to do with the person you are 'punishing'. In a bid to harm someone, you've purposely hurt the efficiency of your group.

It's extremely ironic that people are endorsing this kind of behavior in an anti-toxicity thread when it's basically some kind of griefing power-fantasy.

[jameseoakes]

The other DPS will very likely clip those extra mobs with their aoes, and the healer may heal the DPS you are trying to let die (They may even be a whm with medica II rolling). This now puts both of those players in a situation where they're the next target, while you continue to do suboptimal damage hitting single targets out of spite, or even doing nothing at all.

The healer in particular is now forced into a situation where they either try to waste resources healing the person, or waste a huge amount of mana rezing them after they die. The third option is you now try to complete a large pull with only one DPS, which is going to drain additional CDs from everyone.

Congratulations: You've just griefed your entire party, including two people that likely had nothing to do with the person you are 'punishing'. In a bid to harm someone, you've purposely hurt the efficiency of your group.

It's extremely ironic that people are endorsing this kind of behavior in an anti-toxicity thread when it's basically some kind of griefing power-fantasy.

Surely the DPS that pulled the mobs in the first place was the one griefing in this case.