Dps meters

[tdb]

Once again. Why is this a bad thing? Asking for "significantly higher DPS" isn't elitism. It's wanting faster kills and a potential to skip mechanics. You're still asking players to tolerate others who—in your own words—may be drunk. That's absurd. It's their PF. If they want to restrict it to only half-naked catgirl, not only is that their prerogative. They can kick whomever doesn't meet such a criteria.

It's pretty much the textbook definition of elitism. The elite raiders feel that because they are elite raiders, they are more deserving to get the loot than someone who is a merely okay raider. It's a bad thing because it will lead to segregation of the player base and discrimination. If the elites huddle with themselves, that leaves the okay players to deal with the bad ones.

You're still essentially arguing a person is entitled to clearing content no matter what. They aren't.

Everyone has a bad day. But that isn't anyone else's concern nor are they obligated to carry you through because of it. Or rather, they shouldn't be.

You're misreading me. I'm not saying that anyone should be entitled to a clear regardless of skill. I'm saying that if you can pull your weight, you should be allowed to join a party. You shouldn't be required to show 18k dps for a fight which only needs 14k to clear. If you're having a bad day, your ISP is having the lags or you're too drunk to play properly, then you should try again another time.

[Katie_Kitty]

It's a bad thing because it will lead to segregation of the player base and discrimination. If the elites huddle with themselves, that leaves the okay players to deal with the bad ones.

That's rather hypocritical, don't you think? "It's okay if I don't wanna deal with bad players, but you are not allowed to do the same!"

[tdb]

That's rather hypocritical, don't you think? "It's okay if I don't wanna deal with bad players, but you are not allowed to do the same!"

But I'm not asking you to deal with the bad players. If you can clear the fight, I'm only asking you to deal with other players who can also clear the fight. Sounds fair, no?

[Seddrinth]

But I'm not asking you to deal with the bad players. If you can clear the fight, I'm only asking you to deal with other players who can also clear the fight. Sounds fair, no?

It's not fair at all. Players have the right to choose who they want to team with. There's nothing wrong with a competent players preferring to team up with other players that are the same level as far as dps and/or mechanics. It's the same as casual players preferring to play with other casual players, and not wanting to team up with min/max hardcore level players. Every person has the right to choose, and that is not elitism or toxicity.

tldr: you can't use a dps meter to harass me, but you can use it to determine if you want to play with someone of my level

[ForteNightshade]

It's pretty much the textbook definition of elitism. The elite raiders feel that because they are elite raiders, they are more deserving to get the loot than someone who is a merely okay raider. It's a bad thing because it will lead to segregation of the player base and discrimination. If the elites huddle with themselves, that leaves the okay players to deal with the bad ones.

You should reread that definition then because literally the first sentence disproves your argument.

"Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with an intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience—are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others."

None of this applies to party finder. If you put up a party finder and list restriction, you aren't influencing other people because they're still capable of making their own party finder. By your logic, putting an ilvl or job restriction (i.e., no dupes) would also fall under "elitism" per your definition of the term. Which means Square Enix themselves supports elitism. Which I think we can both agree they absolutely do not. Setting a DPS restriction of say, 75% is no different than putting an ilvl restriction of 490. Except the latter is more effective.

You're misreading me. I'm not saying that anyone should be entitled to a clear regardless of skill. I'm saying that if you can pull your weight, you should be allowed to join a party. You shouldn't be required to show 18k dps for a fight which only needs 14k to clear. If you're having a bad day, your ISP is having the lags or you're too drunk to play properly, then you should try again another time.

Except that's exactly what you are doing. Why does someone have to allow people who only meet the bear minimum? What if they want to skip mechanics or clear at a specific point? For example, Conflag is arguably the most annoying mechanic. If you aim to skip it entirely, you need people with very high DPS. That 14K Samurai isn't going to cut it. Regardless, that 14k Samurai is relying on seven other players to compensate for their lack of damage. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to set their own minimum requirement in their own party? Saying they should just form/join a static is saying people in party finder should be forced to oblige whomever joins their party provided they can do the bearest of minimums. That's entitlement. You're joining their party.

[phantomr23]

You're misreading me. I'm not saying that anyone should be entitled to a clear regardless of skill. I'm saying that if you can pull your weight, you should be allowed to join a party. You shouldn't be required to show 18k dps for a fight which only needs 14k to clear. If you're having a bad day, your ISP is having the lags or you're too drunk to play properly, then you should try again another time.

There's a fact that nobody really likes to hear but is quite important - beating a Savage fight doesn't actually prove you're immensely skilled. The vast majority of fights, particularly now with easy access to i500 gear, can be scraped through by subpar players who are either barely capable of doing the mechanics or inconsistent at best. Sure, the fight itself may only demand 14k from each DPS, but if the average for a Samurai in anything above i490 is around 18k and you're not hitting that then you're simply not putting in the same amount of effort as these groups you're mentioning. You're allowed to join a party, but higher end players are under no obligation to accept somebody who isn't pushing themselves to learn in higher end content where damage objectively matters. A bad player can quite handily clear almost any fight in the game, but somebody who barely knows their class and can't keep the barest semblance of a rotation going through Dark Light Portals is very much not the same as somebody who put in the effort to learn their rotation in and out and thought deeply about how to optimise that rotation in the context of a difficult fight.