Housing Ownership System Abuse

[PewPewPewPewPew]

You and I both know this isn't going to happen, or rather, it will happen on Cactuar in a matter of hours (if that) but the smaller worlds are going to have some land baron buy a ward shafting the rest of the population.

But it becomes a bad thing when being selfish starts to negatively impact others. We don't live in a bubble, you have to think about those around you.

Someone is always gonna get burned when someone else tries harder. You will never avoid this, its impossible. There are people who care more about certain things in life than you do and are willing to do more for it than you are. You should be happy there are outlets like this existing for people to throw more money at. More money translates into more game development budget. Boohoo that it's not being used on HOUSING, but that money is going in and benefiting the game no matter how much you want to argue that it's at the expense of players suffering in housing. Selfish? Sure okay its selfish. What are you going to say now? More about morals? You are literally just here screaming out loud with the hopes of attracting a crowd large enough to have the upper hand in this discussion. But there will be no resolution for you. Resolution isn't achieved by attacking users. Resolution is only achieved by going after the source, so the people who make this game. Why don't you try contact a GM or something? Why don't you sit down and talk with them and post your chat log to show that you're right, have this argument with them and see what they say. But you'll probably still be dissatisfied with the outcome anyways.

What you people are arguing is to literally stop people from enjoying the game the way they want. You want an enjoyment cap because other people's enjoyment absolutely disgusts you and the only way to fix it is to tell everyone what is the 'right amount of fun' by your personal standards. Since you cannot dedicate X amount of time and X amount of dollars, nobody else should be allowed to do more than what you can because that would be abuse of the system. Pathetic.

[Almagnus1]

Someone is always gonna get burned when someone else tries harder. You will never avoid this, its impossible. There are people who care more about certain things in life than you do and are willing to do more for it than you are. You should be happy there are outlets like this existing for people to throw more money at. More money translates into more game development budget. Boohoo that it's not being used on HOUSING, but that money is going in and benefiting the game no matter how much you want to argue that it's at the expense of players suffering in housing. Selfish? Sure okay its selfish. What are you going to say now? More about morals? You are literally just here screaming out loud with the hopes of attracting a crowd large enough to have the upper hand in this discussion. But there will be no resolution for you. Resolution isn't achieved by attacking users. Resolution is only achieved by going after the source, so the people who make this game. Why don't you try contact a GM or something? Why don't you sit down and talk with them and post your chat log to show that you're right, have this argument with them and see what they say. But you'll probably still be dissatisfied with the outcome anyways.

What you people are arguing is to literally stop people from enjoying the game the way they want. You want an enjoyment cap because other people's enjoyment absolutely disgusts you and the only way to fix it is to tell everyone what is the 'right amount of fun' by your personal standards. Since you cannot dedicate X amount of time and X amount of dollars, nobody else should be allowed to do more than what you can because that would be abuse of the system. Pathetic.

Let's look at this from a purely money point of view:

If we look at award of 60 houses, going by the restrictions, that means it's somewhere between 30-60 subs for that ward... in other words SE is expecting that a ward will require enough subscriptions to generate between $4.5-9k/year (assuming that an annual subscription costs $150). If a player wants to own a ward IMO they should pay for the ward. Why should you get a discount?

Not really if we are operating within the scope and rules of the game we have no obligation to think of those around us.

And that is the exact selfish behavior that has caused this entire debacle. Anyone that shares that line of thinking is part of the problem and they should at least be honest about it.

[Awha]

Let's look at this from a purely money point of view:

If we look at award of 60 houses, going by the restrictions, that means it's somewhere between 30-60 subs for that ward... in other words SE is expecting that a ward will require enough subscriptions to generate between $4.5-9k/year (assuming that an annual subscription costs $150). If a player wants to own a ward IMO they should pay for the ward. Why should you get a discount?



And that is the exact selfish behavior that has caused this entire debacle. Anyone that shares that line of thinking is part of the problem and they should at least be honest about it.

Nothing wrong with putting your own enjoyment above others. It is okay to be selfish, so what exactly is the problem since I fail to see it? Or let me rephrase how exactly is it the problem of the player base that does have?

Thing is you have not pointed out why the player base that is operating within the rules has any obligation to alter their behavior. By what metric can we say their actions are bad, or even. the cause of the current housing system.

Reality is you have grounds to vilify the players. Your beef is with SE but instead of only taking it out with SE you also feel the need to go after the players that are just playing within the scope of the game.

[Penthea]

Nothing wrong with putting your own enjoyment above others. It is okay to be selfish, so what exactly is the problem since I fail to see it?

This really depends on the degree at which you put your enjoyment above others.

I personally do not think that hoarding a limited resource is okay. Especially when that resource is designed to and does work perfectly fine when you have only one of each type. It's not as if you need two or more fc or private houses to make a certain type of mechanic to work correctly. One of each is enough to do everything housing has to offer.

Reality is you have grounds to vilify the players. Your beef is with SE but instead of only taking it out with SE you also feel the need to go after the players that are just playing within the scope of the game.

You could say this about a multitude of thread topics where heated debates happen.

Even if a person does not use names or locations to point out exactly who is hoarding and where, hoarders very often voluntarily reveal themselves. I don't think anyone should be surprised when the focus is put on them when they enter a thread and tell people, entirely out of their own choice, that they engage in this behaviour. And because SE never enter these conversations the debates between players stay between players.

It is especially not surprising that very heated debates happen when a certain someone we all know actively trolls and laughs at players who do not have a house. They are a very vocal individual so they make the entire hoarding group look very bad. Really bad.

So yea it's all well and good to say "your beef is with SE" but when hoarders reveal themselves they are making themselves a target. They of course have the right to reveal themselves, but they should not be shocked that people have something against them when they enter a thread that specifically criticises their behaviour.

I've seen this sort of thing happen with so many topics. Player complains about a thing, player who does that thing enters the thread, what they say makes it clear they do the thing, people who agree with OP argue with them, people who agree with those who do the thing argue back...it's constant back and forth until the thread inevitably unravels itself into a mess, people get tired of the thread, it dies...and the whole process happens again when someone makes a new thread with the same topic.

I've seen the above happen with housing, parsers, tanking, healing, dps, party finder, raiding, hunts, msq roulette...anything that criticises how people play, act, or the ability/inability to do something very often become an argumentative mess.

I have seen this happen in literally every gaming forum I have been in. These threads about house hoarders are not particularly special. It's just players being players.

[PewPewPewPewPew]

Hrmm...just because something doesn't go against rules doesn't automatically mean that doing that thing cannot be selfish or greedy. A rule or lack of one doesn't make an action bad or good. It simply makes it permitted or not allowed.

It is true that selfishness is not inherently a bad thing. It really depends on what you do with the selfishness and your motives. Everyone needs to be a bit selfish at times for the preservation of their own well-being. Whether that's things like making sure you have enough food to eat, or cutting someone out of your life who is a source of stress.

But going too far one way or the other is bad. Being too selfless can mean denying your own well-being, and being too selfish can mean denying the well-being of others. It is especially damaging when neither end of the spectrum is even necessary.

This really depends on the degree at which you put your enjoyment above others.

Would you stop already with these "It's selfish but not if .... " interjections? Who made you the righteous king to determine what degree of 'selfishness' is allowed and not allowed? We get it. You think it's bad. Selfish is bad for certain things by whatever your personal standard is. And you want to be on the "good" side like the others against multi house ownership so you don't have to face the mob either. You want to stick to your 'morals' and preach to people what the RIGHT WAY is. You are literally that guy every thread, trying to stay 'neutral' but it's painfully obvious what your intent is. You spend all your posts trying to tell US to accept and admit what we are and that what we are doing is harming others. Yet you continue to try and put on the face of a saint so you can stand above both parties. Every time you come on here and type out this "It's selfish but" yadda yadda, you continue to push the negative image on people that wanting more is bad. So we're selfish, OK get over it. Keep it to yourself. We all kept to ourselves with our selfishness. None of us ran out there to rub it in your face. People on the forum are the ones who dug us up out of the ground and try to make examples of us. Why do you have to keep going out there and bring it back up and constantly raising the "Selfishness is bad" discussion over and over again to reinforce that negative image attached to it? You tell us that selfish actions affect other players, well don't you think your constant echoing of SELFISH BAD SELFISH BAD is also damaging to people? And then you always cop out with a half-assed answer because you don't want to have a target on your back.

Like what I said to the other insane entitled player, why don't you go ask a GM if selfish is bad and ask why SE doesn't conform to your views of enforcing selfishness so you can post it out there and say "LOOK SE SAYS BAD MORALS ARE BAD". You aren't contributing everything in your hundreds of cop out posts.

[Penthea]

Would you stop already with these "It's selfish but not if .... " interjections? Who made you the righteous king to determine what degree of 'selfishness' is allowed and not allowed?

Selfishness is one of the subjects this thread is about. I'm sorry I offended you by showing my opinion about something relevant.

We get it. You think it's bad. Selfish is bad for certain things by whatever your personal standard is. And you want to be on the "good" side like the others against multi house ownership so you don't have to face the mob either. You want to stick to your 'morals' and preach to people what the RIGHT WAY is.

Hmm no it's nothing about not wanting to face a mob. I simply don't feel the need to hoard so I don't do it. A concept that appears alien to you.

And no it's not because I don't have enough gil. It's because I just don't want to. Even if housing was an unlimited resource I doubt I would increase the amount of housing I own. I'm happy with what I have.

You are literally that guy every thread, trying to stay 'neutral' but it's painfully obvious what your intent is.

If you think I am neutral then you don't know me very well or my opinion on this. I have made it clear for years now that I am against house hoarding. I am not neutral. Maybe you're mistaking not foaming at the mouth as an attempt to appear neutral. You don't have to be raging to pick a side.

I personally do not think that hoarding a limited resource is okay.

This is not something a neutral person would say. It makes it clear I disagree with hoarding a limited resource.

It's selfish but" yadda yadda, you continue to push the negative image on people that wanting more is bad. So we're selfish, OK get over it. Keep it to yourself. We all kept to ourselves with our selfishness.

Though some of you may have kept to yourselves this does not change that your actions affect other people, and some of those people feel negatively impacted by those actions. It sounds like you need to get over the fact that people have opinions about the things that you do.

None of us ran out there to rub it in your face.

No one here is rubbing it in your face either. You don't have to come to these forums and reveal you hoard houses. No one is forcing you. And no one is forcing you to overreact to calm posts as if a person vilified you in the most terrible manner possible.

If you want people to stop targeting you first of all you can keep to yourself and stop coming here inviting people to respond to you (because that is how forums work), or even request SE to make house ownership private. As it is now which characters and fcs own which house is public information, and I'm sure you agree that this is an issue for house hoarders.

You tell us that selfish actions affect other players, well don't you think your constant echoing of SELFISH BAD SELFISH BAD is also damaging to people? And then you always cop out with a half-assed answer because you don't want to have a target on your back.

Anything anyone says can affect another person. Whether that's something nice, neutral or bad. This is how conversation works. Welcome to reality.

Also even commenting on this thread has put a target on me, something you have painfully made clear with your disproportionately hostile post.

Like what I said to the other insane entitled player, why don't you go ask a GM if selfish is bad and ask why SE doesn't conform to your views of enforcing selfishness so you can post it out there and say "LOOK SE SAYS BAD MORALS ARE BAD". You aren't contributing everything in your hundreds of cop out posts.

Because GMs are not employed to give their opinions on subjects like content design. GMs are employed to obey strict guidelines on how to handle various issues relating to bugs, exploits and player behaviour, and they must deal with them in certain ways regardless of their opinion. There is likely a clause in their contract that says they are not permitted to give their opinion on content and ToS design while doing their job.

I had a job in which I had to handle situations with guidelines relating to warranty on very expensive products. I was specifically told during my training that I am not to give my opinion on how the warranty handled products, I was only permitted to act within the limitations the warranty service offered.

GMs are support staff. At most they can suggest to their superiors that something needs to change, but that is strictly done internally. A player will never see this. You're only going to be able to get an actual public opinion from SE staff who are devs, those who manage the devs and community managers. You know, the people who actually decide how things are done.

Complaining to a GM about how a game feature works is like complaining to a cashier in a shop that nappies are expensive. The most they can do is pass on the complaint to their superiors. They can't do much about it, and giving their opinion risks an argumentative debate happening. It is frankly unprofessional to allow such a thing to happen if it can be prevented.

[PewPewPewPewPew]

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Then quit being so passive aggressive and be THE FIRST GUY calling out the OP and putting a stop to this harassment.

Why are you picking and choosing when you want to be the good guy? I see you editing your posts in all your forum posts like 10 times within matters of minutes. You are that worried about being met with opposition and have to keep cleaning up what you say after you've already said it.

If you're going to keep coming to these forums to talk rules, morals, and whats right and wrong, how about you be POST #2 every time telling the OP that they are out of line when they are.

[Awha]

Same, things get messy because players need some tangible to blame to they vilify the players instead of just the system.

No matter how you cut it I do not think it is fair to turn a disagreement into a witch hunt. We may have differing views the core of the issue is yes under your standards this is negative action, which is cool. Though under the rule set of the game it is allowed. So pushing ones standards as norm seem kind one skewed. Since the only norms we have agreed to as a community happen to be the ToS.

That is my issue some do not understand the difference between a disagreement of ideals and standards and witch hunt.

In the end ybe standards that matter are t he put in place by SE everything else is kind of moot. We have no obligation to adhere to the standards of other players since hoarding is acceptable by SE due to the nature if the rules. Sure you could argue it I s not the intent or Yoshi-P is not in favor of it. Though if the rules and game system state otherwise even his view / company view becomes just an opinion.

This has been an issue in gaming for ages do not hate the player, hate the game. Seems people have forgotten that.

[Almagnus1]

I personally do not think that hoarding a limited resource is okay.

And this is the statement that sums up this entire debate.

[PewPewPewPewPew]

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Literally all you do is respond to single sentences in posts that corner you with nothing burger answers to make it look like you are giving an analytical response. Yet everything you've typed so far is literally AIR.

> Go talk to the GMs and get an answer from them.
Nooo nonono the GM's don't talk about this stuff...

> Why don't you condemn the original poster for breaking the rules?
Nooo nonono I don't want to get involved by telling someone what is wrong...

> Why are you telling me being selfish is wrong?
Nooo nonono it's selfish but its not, but it is in five minutes from now after I'm done typing...

> If you're going to call out players, why aren't you calling out other players who are also 'morally wrong'?
Nooo nonono it's not up to me to call people out it's up to the GMs...

> But you just said the GMs dont talk about that stuff and you just called me out.
Noooo nonono......

Ok Consuella, why are you even here in the first place?

And this is the statement that sums up this entire debate.

Except this is not the law of the land. Try again.