Why people still USE ACT knowing their breaking TOS ??

[ElciaDeiLinus]

General problem with parsing in games is its always used as an excuse for extreme toxicity. There's some who use it for self betterment, but most just use it to flex and dunk on others.

What I don't get is how people act so surprised that so many people don't use or like parse systems, and it's not even just about the toxicity that it breeds. Just think about it- when you play an RPG, say FFX, or Chrono Trigger- do you run a parser and spend hours looking up the best way to maximize damage for every encounter? Now perhaps you'll say 'but that is a SP game'. Well, when you play a game like Diablo 3, do you throw a fit when someone isn't playing the top damage class with the spells and gear set that you were told online does the max dps? If someone's using a gun in a shooter that can do 300dps when there's another gun you know can do 310dps do you blacklist that player? There's plenty of looter shooters, ARPGs and other multi player games that can be optimized that most players never will do. Parsing's like Mario speed runs- if you like it, go for it, but expecting everyone who plays Mario to be doing it for speed run purposes would be absurd.

The parsing obsession is not a normal thing in gaming, it's actually an extremely niche thing that in most games is barely if at all done- so assuming that most players want to be part of it, or want to be hassled because they didn't parse or haven't spent time out of game looking at strategies and guides is pretty much ignoring that basically nobody does that in every game, and while it is more common in MMOs than elsewhere, it's still a toxic niche that generally pushes players away because of how its proponents tend to act.

There's another thread here where people are complaining that players leveling haven't maxed out their gear before stepping into normal dungeon finder- so it's not even just about 'the most difficult progression raids'- people use guides, optimization, parsers, etc... to dump on people even in the content specifically aimed at the most casual players, and we still wonder why SE doesn't openly support a parser. And that's not even going into the profanity laced tirades that some streamers go on while they direct their followers to harass players they've outed as bad by name- only to get banned and have players try to explain why orders to pester players while dropping hard R or worse are just 'constructive criticism'. I have to wonder if the people constantly claiming that's not toxic really have a grasp on why the average player does not want to be subjected to that.

[Aeos]

Understand that’s there’s two kinds of per se “parsing”.

1. Parsing in terms of optimization and aiming for leaderboards
2. Parsing for the sake of figuring out why the SAM is doing less than stormblood numbers in current content.

Unless you’re with a specific group, it’s usually the latter people refer to. People care about how team members are performing because it’s a team game, not a single player game. It’s very, very, very common in MMOs.

Most people, in pugs, aren’t expecting people to pushing out 90+ percentiles. We are expecting however you to know the basics of your job and do appropriate performance. This includes the basics of your job and maintaining even decent uptime. It’s very obvious when a player is genuinely trying, or straight-up freestyling.

Also no one cares about parses outside of ex/savage/ulti. The only reason people run and criticize people in dungeons is because no one wants a curebot, a single target dps in trash mobs, and a clemency at 80% hp pld.

[Rivinhal]

They don't want to add damage meters to avoid toxicity but they turn a blind eye to people using them as long as they are not calling people out and being abusive with it.

I just don't understand why they couldn't keep enforcing that policy even with an official parser?
Abuse is abuse, and harassment is harassment. Giving people an official tool to use wouldn't change that.

Well, when you play a game like Diablo 3, do you throw a fit when someone isn't playing the top damage class with the spells and gear set that you were told online does the max dps?

No. I don't. But I definitely care about my own build lol.

If they play well, and can kill mobs, then I don't care what build they're using. Their results speak volumes.
And if they can't kill mobs and don't play well? Then I just find a different group. No use in ruining someone else's fun when I can just find a different party.

Optimization exists in basically every game. Whether it's class build guides in D3 or parsers in FFXIV, the reality is that optimization isn't inherently an issue. The problem is the act of using optimization as a justification to abuse or harass others who aren't optimizing.
I don't see it as being any inherently different in an MMO simply because it's an MMO. It happens in all sorts of games. Even the ones you wouldn't expect... It's a part of human nature. There's no running from that. You can say we should be better, that we should try to overcome that impulse to try to force others into doing what we're doing too, and I'd agree with you. But I don't think the answer is to punish everyone by removing optimization tools. I think the answer is to punish the people who use optimization as a justification for bad behavior.

And thankfully the FFXIV devs already have a strict no-tolerance policy regarding those issues. So I just don't see what would change if they did make an official parser available while enforcing the rules the same as they do now.

[JanVanding]

General problem with parsing in games is its always used as an excuse for extreme toxicity. There's some who use it for self betterment, but most just use it to flex and dunk on others.
snip.

Extremely eloquent way of wording exactly what I was thinking when it comes to parsers.

I've been around the MMO scene a very, very long time, right back to UO, EQ and AO and there's always been this argument for parsers since Vanilla WoW when modding became the norm.

Yet for every person that want's to use a parser the right way, for self improvement, identifying and tidying up their own rotation, there are at least ten people that want to use the Parser for bragging rights or belittling others.

I can't tell you how many times, I've tuned into a "Known Streamer" raiding, to see them getting angry, pulling up someone in the teams parse and ragging on them in a very public and demeaning manner. It's also let to this obsession that DPS > Everything which is leading to healers forgoing their primary role to spam damage because they don't want to be yelled at.

If someone is trying to chew me out over parsing numbers because I've been doing my primary role, they are part of the problem and the reason SE will not support it, sorry but I'd much sooner drop an Aspected Benefic shield on a Black Mage so they can finish out their rotation because the shield/heal gives them enough health to eat the AoE, than keep spamming my damage because mines' nothing compared to theirs, but them completing a full rotation because the healer is fulfilling their role is far more beneficial to the team as a whole.

Parsers can be tools for good, unfortunately they've long been established and used as a tool for ill.

[LittleImp]

It's also let to this obsession that DPS > Everything which is leading to healers forgoing their primary role to spam damage because they don't want to be yelled at.

If someone is trying to chew me out over parsing numbers because I've been doing my primary role, they are part of the problem and the reason SE will not support it, sorry but I'd much sooner drop an Aspected Benefic shield on a Black Mage so they can finish out their rotation because the shield/heal gives them enough health to eat the AoE, than keep spamming my damage because mines' nothing compared to theirs, but them completing a full rotation because the healer is fulfilling their role is far more beneficial to the team as a whole.

Parsers aren't responsible for the dps-centric meta in this game, the developers approach to content design is. Pushing maximal DPS is heavily rewarded, and has very little risk associated with it. The positive impact is extremely noticeable without the need for any third-party tools. For example, the most recent EX allows you to skip nearly all of the fights most annoying mechanics if your DPS is high enough; You actively decrease your risk of wiping by hitting the boss harder in many fights. Just look at Soar skip.

If a healer isn't dpsing, they're either overhealing or spending 95% of their time doing absolutely nothing. There is no constant need for healing as with other mmos, and the small amount of outgoing damage that does come out is at heavily scripted intervals.

As an aside, I've mained BLM since late HW and I can recall exactly one instance where I felt standing in a puddle was potentially necessary, and that was during HW where mobility was... limited. Any BLM participating in that behavior these days should be scolded and told to manage their mobility better.

[Katie_Kitty]

General problem with parsing in games is its always used as an excuse for extreme toxicity. There's some who use it for self betterment, but most just use it to flex and dunk on others.

What I don't get is how people act so surprised that so many people don't use or like parse systems, and it's not even just about the toxicity that it breeds. Just think about it- when you play an RPG, say FFX, or Chrono Trigger- do you run a parser and spend hours looking up the best way to maximize damage for every encounter? Now perhaps you'll say 'but that is a SP game'. Well, when you play a game like Diablo 3, do you throw a fit when someone isn't playing the top damage class with the spells and gear set that you were told online does the max dps? If someone's using a gun in a shooter that can do 300dps when there's another gun you know can do 310dps do you blacklist that player? There's plenty of looter shooters, ARPGs and other multi player games that can be optimized that most players never will do. Parsing's like Mario speed runs- if you like it, go for it, but expecting everyone who plays Mario to be doing it for speed run purposes would be absurd.

Pretty terrible examples honestly. None of those games you listed have anything remotely resembling strict enrage/DPS checks and that is why parsing is a thing in FFXIV. Wanna get rid of parsing? Then get rid of enrage timers and DPS checks. But that would basically trivialize everything so what would even be the point anymore?

Even then honestly you'd still have people wanting to do speedkills and those people will want parsers to help with their optimization so that might not even work.

[Seddrinth]

Follow the $$$. Many people sub to this game because of the environment. They want to be able to run content without being judged. If you allow official parsers, many of these players will leave the game and the subs will drop. SE is trying to balance between this group of players and the end game players who raid savages/ultimates. That's why the parser is official not allowed, but in reality allowed if you don't use it to harrass people.

[Seddrinth]

Extremely eloquent way of wording exactly what I was thinking when it comes to parsers.
Yet for every person that want's to use a parser the right way, for self improvement, identifying and tidying up their own rotation, there are at least ten people that want to use the Parser for bragging rights or belittling others.

I can't tell you how many times, I've tuned into a "Known Streamer" raiding, to see them getting angry, pulling up someone in the teams parse and ragging on them in a very public and demeaning manner. It's also let to this obsession that DPS > Everything which is leading to healers forgoing their primary role to spam damage because they don't want to be yelled at.

I think for every "know streamer" there are 10s of thousands of non-streamer players who just want to enjoy end game content and improve themselves. You just don't notice them because they mind their own business and don't bother other people. It's a bad message to send to new players that this game doesn't allow parsers, because they will not be able to find the programs easily. If these self-help tools were made available then you would be helping a lot of players better enjoy their gameplay experience.

[JanVanding]

I think for every "know streamer" there are 10s of thousands of non-streamer players who just want to enjoy end game content and improve themselves. You just don't notice them because they mind their own business and don't bother other people. It's a bad message to send to new players that this game doesn't allow parsers, because they will not be able to find the programs easily. If these self-help tools were made available then you would be helping a lot of players better enjoy their gameplay experience.

Years of case studies of parse tools show they are very often used poorly and for shaming and it's the "Don't ask, Don't tell" mentality that stops the majority of that behaviour for fear of reprisal.

If we had an official tool, the shaming behaviour would increase exponentially. I still remember the huge discussion about it in Rift, when Trion caved and put in an official parser, it immediately started being used for bad.

"Don't ask, Don't tell" and unsupported is how it should stay.

[Katie_Kitty]

Years of case studies of parse tools show

Yeah okay sure thing.