Ryne might be able to come back to the Source after all.

[Riastrad]

Because the Lightwardens aren't aetherial beings. Because white auracite can't hold aether for a long enough time. Because white auracite itself can't strike down the Ligthwarden in order for such a transfer to occur.

Lightwardens are aether, hence the cs of the aether flowing into you. White auracite could be contained long enough to teleport to the Crystal Tower, especially after Ryne was able to stabilize our aether after taking in the light. Don't need it to kill the Warden, Thancred could have done that with Ryne and the others due to Innocence being the only 8 man Lightwarden and only after Vauthry suffused himself with light after gorging himself on meol. Hell, Ryne was also capable of containing the light, but was only to be used as a last ditch effort if we couldn't be summoned on time.

Sorry man.

I'm not sure we've ever seen White Auracite used in any event except as an all or nothing kind of thing. I'm also not sure it can accurately split off the characters aether that way. At least nothing so far has indicated it really works in any way except "suck everything into it", which... isn't really a solution to the problem. And as pointed out the Lightwardens aether has to go to the entity that killed it. Perhaps if you had like, a really strong Talos it would just go to the nearest living entity instead, which isn't really a solution either. We could ask about why it has to go to a living being, but it seems to have something to do with the overly aspected nature of it.

It's a vacuum, right? So the entity that kills the Warden HAS to be the host? I thought it only had to be the close enough person/creature, because that is what is said by the Exarch after Philia. So it wouldn't necessarily seek out the archer a quarter mile away that landed the lucky shot, but the warrior out in front next to the thing, right? So if the auracite is closer to the warden, the aether vacuum would take it first before it went anywhere else?

[MirronTulaxia]

Titania was also an eight man Lightwarden. But yeah, none of that really seems workable. The light aether from killing a Lightwarden has to go into someone living. Once your aether is mixed with the Lightwardens there doesn't seem to be any current way to split it out (at least with White Auracite). So you'd just be sucking the entirety of whoever killed it into the White Auracite, which... isn't a solution.

[Riastrad]

Titania was also an eight man Lightwarden. But yeah, none of that really seems workable. The light aether from killing a Lightwarden has to go into someone living. Once your aether is mixed with the Lightwardens there doesn't seem to be any current way to split it out (at least with White Auracite). So you'd just be sucking the entirety of whoever killed it into the White Auracite, which... isn't a solution.

Ah, true Titania was the other 8 man. Odd that it retained some semblance of self after its corruption.

Does it have to be a living entity? I must have missed that part. Because i'm not sure I ever heard that. If that's the case, I would hate to be whatever Storge was cause it didn't look human or animal. Like a coin with wings...

As for auricite not able to be used to separate aether, it doesn't need to. It only needs to work as you said, a vacuum. Hold the damn thing in front of you and done.


Edit after an edit.

Wait wait wait. Time out. It's already been established that it is possible to transfer particular threads of aether. The Exarch tried it before and was just about done before Emet stopped him. Come on....

Another edit.

This pandemic needs to go away because I have way too much time to think about this stuff...


I've derailed this thread enough. However my final thought on whether Ryne will be back is 100% yes. I have zero doubt.

[Vyrerus]

Lightwardens are aether

No, Lightwardens contain aether. They have physical bodies that must be killed before the aether goes out of them. You don't know how long white auracite can contain the aether, and there's also the question of whether or not we could still teleport in a stable manner with an unstable aetherial vessel in possession. If you're going by the specially designed soul vessels that work off of a similar principal to white auracite, those weren't made yet, and then run into still more issues of whether or not they'd even imbibe the aether of a Lightwarden, since they aren't living entities.


There's also the issue of, white auracite is supposedly rare.

As for Storge, it's sort of like a take on a biblical description of an angel, and Storge is some old greek word for familial love. The original forms of Lightwardens are Ascian designed monsters, some of which were killed by something else, hence how we know what happens when one dies, prior to us killing any. Titania and possibly the Cerberus from Qitana Ravel killed original form Lightwardens and were contaminated(though only Titania is really confirmed 100% on that note).

[Riastrad]

No, Lightwardens contain aether. They have physical bodies that must be killed before the aether goes out of them. You don't know how long white auracite can contain the aether, and there's also the question of whether or not we could still teleport in a stable manner with an unstable aetherial vessel in possession. If you're going by the specially designed soul vessels that work off of a similar principal to white auracite, those weren't made yet, and then run into still more issues of whether or not they'd even imbibe the aether of a Lightwarden, since they aren't living entities.


There's also the issue of, white auracite is supposedly rare.

As for Storge, it's sort of like a take on a biblical description of an angel, and Storge is some old greek word for familial love. The original forms of Lightwardens are Ascian designed monsters, some of which were killed by something else, hence how we know what happens when one dies, prior to us killing any. Titania and possibly the Cerberus from Qitana Ravel killed original form Lightwardens and were contaminated(though only Titania is really confirmed 100% on that note).

Semantics. All living beings in the universe of XIV are aether. The ARR quest "What little Gods are made of" already explains the cycle of death and rebirth as aether given new shape once a being has passed on. You also don't know if auracite can't be teleported and even if it can't the aether itself could still be drawn into multiple vessels at any given time, because as I mentioned before, Urianger created one in such short notice only after we failed to properly contain the light, as a way of dealing with Emet. You also don't know it couldn't contain the aether even though that is the purpose of the auracite to begin with. Killing an Ascian's body and draining their aether into it.

Again, if it could briefly contain a fully joined Ascian (14/14) as it was supposed to with Emet, then i'm all but certain it could contain a single warden for much longer. As we did (9/14) with five, however briefly it was that we did.



I know some of the wardens are named after words for Love. I'm saying all the others kept something of the form that was taken over. I just feel pity for who or what it was before. An elemental maybe as others appear as Sin Eaters in the area (Forgiven Bribery and Forgiven Vainglory). Which begs the question if you believe elementals are able to be wardens since they are pure aetherial spirits and don't really have a body as they are just beings that form themselves when they wish. If it was an elemental, was it possible for it to become a warden without a vessel to fill? Theoretically, some of the Fae are just spirits of the deceased as well.

[MrThinker]

Urianger created one in such short notice only after we failed to properly contain the light

Incorrect. He created the auracite before we had even arrived, predicting that Ascians would come to stop anyone preventing the Rejoining. It's part of the reason he was in Il Mheg, since it is apparently the most aether rich region in Norvrandt thanks to the Fae and aether rich regions are necessary to make white auracite. He shows us the auracite when we first reunite with him in the quest "Unto the Truth" and it is the same one that is later splintered by Thancred to stake Emet in place.

[Riastrad]

Incorrect. He created the auracite before we had even arrived, predicting that Ascians would come to stop anyone preventing the Rejoining. It's part of the reason he was in Il Mheg, since it is apparently the most aether rich region in Norvrandt thanks to the Fae and aether rich regions are necessary to make white auracite. He shows us the auracite when we first reunite with him in the quest "Unto the Truth" and it is the same one that is later splintered by Thancred to stake Emet in place.

Well ya got me there, good eye. Here's a like.

Except he sure made a decent amount when we needed to find a way to get the Scions back to the Source, which only happens after we recruit Beq Lugg. Granted at the time he had help, but then again he always should have had help. And boy did they crank them out. It still stands to reason he could have made more than one in the interim while all the Scions went their separate ways for years. Remember Moenbryda? She made the concept and delivered one in a few days along with the means to draw aether in to create a blade of light. What was his excuse?


EDIT
Truly I apologize to the OP for derailing this thread. If I had known that mentioning auracite would spawn two pages of off topic discourse, I would have just not.

[Iscah]

Again, if it could briefly contain a fully joined Ascian (14/14) as it was supposed to with Emet, then i'm all but certain it could contain a single warden for much longer. As we did (9/14) with five, however briefly it was that we did.

Remember Moenbryda? She made the concept and delivered one in a few days along with the means to draw aether in to create a blade of light. What was his excuse?

Remember Moenbryda indeed - but you seem to have forgotten the details of her explanation.

See cutscene 2 of "A Simple Plan". She didn't make it in a few days; she was already researching white auracite, brought a sample with her and is ready to conduct "final tests".

She is also clear that the auracite cannot retain aether for long. This is demonstrated when they later use it to reactivate the beacon at Snowcloak with the Scions' combined power - all have to be present in the cave and infuse the auracite with their aether immediately before it is used. That is, it can't hold a few humans' easily-given infusion of aether for more than a few seconds. To try to store a Lightwarden's entire essence in it would be pure foolishness.

White auracite is simply not a storage device. It stuns and traps Ascians for just long enough that we can defeat them before they break out again.

I will have to review exactly what was said about the soul vessels but they are clearly a modified concept, and designed to carry a willing soul rather than trap one that wishes to escape.

---

On your side note regarding the Wardens' names, three are named after the concept of the Four Loves: Philia (friendship), Eros (romance/desire) and Storge (empathy/affection); by deduction Titania - being the prior name of the host rather than the Warden itself - should be Agape (unconditional love).

[Amnmaat]

My theory: Minfillia could travel between worlds. Minfillia gave her aetheric energy to Ryne in the MSQ; Ryne is able to travel between worlds because of this. Minfillia will reveal this to Ryne in due time.

[LineageRazor]

Regarding all this back and forth about "obvious" solutions to the Light containment problem:

Bear in mind that the Internet is a big place, and FFXIV fandom has a lot of members. Collectively, we undoubtedly have a LOT more imagination than the writers do, and collectively we remember a ton of details that the writers may not. It is inevitable that fans are going to come up with alternatives, explanations, and plans for almost any situation. Additionally, OTHER fans can speculate reasons why those plans may not work - just as is happening in this thread.

EVEN IF the writers could anticipate every possible solution the players could possibly come up with, would you enjoy playing a game where they broke down each and every one, and provided an explanation why it wouldn't work? I suppose some might, but others would find such a wall of text to be a major drag. There comes a point where you simply have to accept that there's reasons why your great idea never came up. Perhaps the characters just didn't think of it. Perhaps they did, and discussed it off-screen. Perhaps there's more to the Lightwardens' Aether than has been explained to the audience, but is well-understood enough by the characters involved that they know proposing the idea is futile.

The WoL is overcharged with Light and on her way to insanity/oblivion/transformation/whatever - that was the drama they wanted to put forward in the final act. (It maybe fell a bit flat with me, since I know there's no way they're actually gonna kill off the player character, but that's beside the point. :P) I was comfortable with the notion that there were no simple solutions; while I might be able to think of a few that seem so, there must be reasons in-game why they don't work, stated or unstated.

Fridge logic is all well and good, and there's certainly examples in fiction where the obvious solution REALLY IS obvious, to the point where the characters seem like morons for missing it - but I dont' think this is such a case. A single individual containing the essances of multiple Lightwardens is literally unprecedented. ANY solution is theoretical at best, and the situation is extraordinarily dangerous to the point that any solution should be approached with the utmost caution.

On a side note, I, myself, was a bit perplexed back when the WoL defeated the FIRST Lightwarden. The Exarch was CLEARLY of supreme confidence that we would be be able to contain the Lightwarden's essence. I never really thought it was adequately explained why he was so confident in this - but he clearly seems to know SOMETHING, since he was also clearly aware that we might one day reach our Lightwarden limit, and had set self-sacrificey plans in motion for that eventuality. Chances are pretty good that he knows enough about what's going on to be able to explain why the suggestions in this thread wouldn't work.