Yoshi-P Sanpo comments re: Bard

[Akiudo]

TFW Red Mage is just the HW Ranged DPS refined.

as i'm not entirely sure what point your trying to make here is i will just say that redmage is nothing like bard during hw.

redmage has no randomly resetting ogcd's.
a lot less ogcd's in general
no pseudo ogcd's (empyrial) that technically was best used when you have an instant, which you have no idea when that may even be so just use it for 3 1,5 second casts in a row (normal skill->empyrial as as casted filler for the ogcd phase->next weapon skill right away, that was totally fun....

the cast->instant->cast->instant dynamic of redmage may look a bit like the 1,5 cast->2,5 second gcd bard had in that you had your cast followed by "free movement" time, however one lends itself to double weave, the other not in the slightest.
repelling shot had about as long an animation lock as redmages discplacement, just that you had to again time this with your nearly never (20% procc rate on your filler skill ftw...) "free" instant skill or try to use it during a 1 second window between cast and gcd.
redmage has enchanted reprise and swiftcast to extent movement time, or get any movement time at all in a pinch (i.e. there is at least some control on when to use these) bard had "turning of menuet" and "praying to get a instant procc at just the right moment"

[gumas]

well, the complete patch is out and... only 3 skill is getting potential increase, and 2 of them are on long cooldown too, thats about it lol

[Risvertasashi]

well, the complete patch is out and... only 3 skill is getting potential increase, and 2 of them are on long cooldown too, thats about it lol

Only 1 has a cooldown. Refulgent is a proc off burst shot.

While 10 potency might not seem like much, it adds up when it's almost every GCD. (Conversely, SMN's 150 potency reduction might seem over the top, but it's for an oGCD used 3~4 times every 2 minutes ish, so it won't add up nearly as much as a GCD nerf).

Personally, I'd have loved it if the DoTs got some love instead, but I think this should be pretty decent. Looking forward to seeing what numbers I can push when the servers come back up.

[Wyakin]

Good to see SE are still completely blind to the issue of all three ranged. How much of a disparity there is between the ranged jobs and the rest of the dps. How these buffs are a literal waste of time. OPEN YOUR EYES SWUARE

[Adenauer]

Welp, I don't know why I was holding out hope for any of the changes mentioned here,
+10 potency on 2 gcds are you ffff kidding me?!
+50 on sidewinder, why wasn't it applied to the aoe one too?
God these buffs feel so disappointing.

On the topic, would've wished for the aoe kit on the bard to be fixed.
At the moment when faced with multiple enemies, under Mages Ballad it's confusing if I should be procing RoD by using quick nock, or stacking dots on every mob for quicker spam.
Would love a Bane ability like SMN has to spread dots around mobs, would be a lot easier and quite a substantial buff.

[Risvertasashi]

+50 on sidewinder, why wasn't it applied to the aoe one too?

Bard doesn't need help on AOE. It's AOE is really quite good.

It's single target/boss fights where bard needed help.

[gumas]

Only 1 has a cooldown. Refulgent is a proc off burst shot.

The time for Refulgent to fill up is the cooldown =P

but yeah i also hoping they done something with the dots but... oh well i take what i can get at this point

[Akiudo]

but yeah i also hoping they done something with the dots but... oh well i take what i can get at this point

thats exactly the problem, people should NOT "take what they can get" cause that gives off the implication whatever square does is fine.

i know you didn't mean it like this, but imagine bard would be another 1000 dps behind more than it allready is and they had buffed bard for only half as much as they did, would you still say the same ? this "buff" is a sad joke and people rightfully should be up in arms about it.

the number 100 bard on ifrit garuda gained 302 dps, thats a 1,81% buff
the number 200 bard on ifrit garuda gained 294 dps, thats a 1,77% buff
the number 300 bard on ifrit garuda gained 308 dps, thats a 1,87% buff (and just to be clear, the only reason that one got out clearly more than 1,8% is that he had an extremely high dh/crit rate on sidewinder 50/62,5% which obviously happens with a skill you only use 8 times in a fight but isn't to be expected,without that he would fall smack dab into the 1,8 area.)

so people don't say i only look at the top end bards and would also need to look at the lower end
the number 4000 bard on ifrit garuda gained 275 dps, thats a 1,83% buff
the number 6000 bard on ifrit garuda gained 262 dps, thats a 1,83% buff
so yea, the class that is behind even second to last place by 500+ dps at basically all percentiles above 50 just got buffed for 200-300 dps depending on skill level, hurray to bards, maybe they can now beat dragoon at the 25% percentile level


(and to be clear, this isn't even talking "ranged are too far below the rest" or anything like that, just comparing the physical ranged on itself dancer on 90+ percentiles will still beat out bard, by a degree getting worse the higher up you go while offering the better support in curing waltz, and i would even call dancers position outside of speedruns too weak if you compare it with mch, but at least they got their niche)

[Risvertasashi]

thats exactly the problem, people should NOT "take what they can get" cause that gives off the implication whatever square does is fine.

i know you didn't mean it like this, but imagine bard would be another 1000 dps behind more than it allready is and they had buffed bard for only half as much as they did, would you still say the same ? this "buff" is a sad joke and people rightfully should be up in arms about it.

the number 100 bard on ifrit garuda gained 302 dps, thats a 1,81% buff
the number 200 bard on ifrit garuda gained 294 dps, thats a 1,77% buff
the number 300 bard on ifrit garuda gained 308 dps, thats a 1,87% buff (and just to be clear, the only reason that one got out clearly more than 1,8% is that he had an extremely high dh/crit rate on sidewinder 50/62,5% which obviously happens with a skill you only use 8 times in a fight but isn't to be expected,without that he would fall smack dab into the 1,8 area.)

so people don't say i only look at the top end bards and would also need to look at the lower end
the number 4000 bard on ifrit garuda gained 275 dps, thats a 1,83% buff
the number 6000 bard on ifrit garuda gained 262 dps, thats a 1,83% buff
so yea, the class that is behind even second to last place by 500+ dps at basically all percentiles above 50 just got buffed for 200-300 dps depending on skill level, hurray to bards, maybe they can now beat dragoon at the 25% percentile level

The thing is, bard hasn't really been that far behind. The needle needed to be nudged, and it's been nudged.

If Dancer didn't exist, bard would have perhaps been fine as is. The real problem is that Dancer is basically Bard Plus. More utility than bard, more DPS than bard. This buff should, at least, fix the latter.

[Akiudo]

The thing is, bard hasn't really been that far behind. The needle needed to be nudged, and it's been nudged.

If Dancer didn't exist, bard would have perhaps been fine as is. The real problem is that Dancer is basically Bard Plus. More utility than bard, more DPS than bard. This buff should, at least, fix the latter.

same dps, less utility is still "allways worse" maybe not at the "low end" but certainly everywhere above 90%. look at 50% or even 75% and you will see mch dominate both dnc and bard, mch simply is stronger than both of them, clearly stronger, their pittance of support doesn't hold a candle to 300-500 extra dps (that will be after the buffs) at that percentile level.

the only place dancer on the other hand right now holds any real ground is in a top end setting, but there comes the problem that you can only take one, the area where dancer starts to excell is the level where people will in fact exclude a class for "same dps, less utility" so this "needle nudging" changed exactly nothing, bard still is "a clearly worse mch" until you reach the 90% area and a worse dancer afterwards.