Y'shtola's "Marketing Armor"

[Sathona]

if anything i want Flhaminn to take some spotlight. after doing DNC quest, she is definitely more than we know.

She is popular so its no surprise shes known in the dancing/musical world of Eorzea but i doubt shed offer anything else to the group besides what shes already doing.

[Vyrerus]

Not true

So you think that any of the examples you listed really ripple outwards as much as death? Guess you don't get impacted the same way by death in the real world either. You can always focus in more on a bad thing happening, and make it the pivotal element in your story, but death sticks around, even without you writing more on it. We don't dwell on death overlong in the story, because it is depressing by nature. The game doesn't like to keep a gloomy tone.

As for Emet-selch and his glorious "plan..." well. Yeah, it was all undone. Imagine if he'd deigned to, idk, kill somebody or let Y'shtola stay dead? In the end it really did make it seem like he wanted to die, rather than to succeed at finally thwarting us. It was a good story, but he ultimately suffers from what most every villain has suffered from in this game, he doesn't kill anybody, and heck, he even saved one of the people who wouldn't think twice about cramming him into some auracite and blowing him to bits. And yes, it will forever remain a stain on an otherwise excellent story. And I mean, heck, I know he was written this way to ultimately come off as a sympathetic villain, sympathy keyed up to the max, but it just doesn't land on both feet.

For me, death sticks around. I think about how often we kill people in the story, and the story brings it up numerous times too. For Raubahn, he's not shown to dwell on it, so I don't think about it much beyond, "Hmm, I wonder if he didn't attack Zenos at the Reach only because he's missing an arm or because he knows even if he had both he wouldn't stand a chance."

In XIV death happens, but it only happens to the lesser characters and antagonists. The game does make a theme out of dwelling on just how many people you've killed, and also reminds you at every opportunity that makes sense that you've had people die for you, but there's not a lot of gravity outside of anybody but Haruchefant and debatably Papalymo. Haurchefant had some because he was a major character for the time period that he died in, despite being a minor character overall, due to the Scions being presumed dead/MIA. The thing is, is that with most of the other, "equal loss" type things they've done so far, they don't really capitalize on them to any notable extent. They're just sort of flavor on the back burner, some forgotten entirely, due to the scope of the story being told. We've got a lot of Chekhov's Guns lying around, so to speak.

[Vyrerus]

I fully agree that more characters need to die in FFXIV, especially with the ongoing war and the character bloat. Nevertheless, targeting the Scions might not be a good idea since you risk destroying characters that have been built up over years and having them be replaced by newcomers few would cares about. For instance, faking out Sultana Nanamo's death was pointless, she has effectively been an extra in the story ever since. Any dialogue she's spoken in the MSQ cutscenes could have been spoken by Raubahn. It may have been more interesting to see Nanamo die and Raubahn try to take her place as leader of Ul'dah since he's already a long established character. But for the Scions, there aren't really any established characters that could readily take their place so killing a Scion risks making the story less interesting as the Scions perform a unique function.

Personally, I think that they could get away with killing a scion or two. I wouldn't want it to be a regular thing. It just bugs me that there's supposed to be consequences to character's actions, but they get off scot-free. It's not like I will stop enjoying the game if they never do kill a major Scion, but I know they've got writers that would write it well, and I also know that it would really drive up people's expectations as well as make the trailers with death baiting feel more suspensefull.

[Wissp]

I think one of the best deaths in the game was Tesleen. Sure she was just a minor character, but that's what made her fate so poignant. She was just a normal woman without any kind of power or fighting skill, helping those in need. Yet when one of her patients was threatened by the sin eaters, she did not hesitate to jump in and defend him even though she had no power or skill, no way to win, and she died for it.

Her sacrifice really hit me because it showed someone, a non powerful person, someone NORMAL, standing up against evil and giving her life to protect another.

They can grant someone minor a great death scene but not the characters they spend so much time developing, choosing to have them continuously go on and surviving.

But someone said the Scions have their fates plotted out already, so I hope at least a few end up having good deaths.

[Saix027]

I think one of the best deaths in the game was Tesleen. Sure she was just a minor character, but that's what made her fate so poignant. She was just a normal woman without any kind of power or fighting skill, helping those in need. Yet when one of her patients was threatened by the sin eaters, she did not hesitate to jump in and defend him even though she had no power or skill, no way to win, and she died for it.

Her sacrifice really hit me because it showed someone, a non powerful person, someone NORMAL, standing up against evil and giving her life to protect another.

They can grant someone minor a great death scene but not the characters they spend so much time developing, choosing to have them continuously go on and surviving.

But someone said the Scions have their fates plotted out already, so I hope at least a few end up having good deaths.

I personally liked how it was shown, terrifying even but the character itself felt like a plot device, we not knowed her, Alisaie did, it was for her "character development" we not seen in the time they were in the shard, it felt forced for me honestly.

On the topic itself it feels lazy how often she jumped of a dead by now, teleporting herself and Thancred, getting hurt by Zenos, falling donw ruins back in the aether due teleport again, it feels like a repating things.

What i simply not like is how it not gets brought back up, her eyes adnd how it supposedly drains her? Not a issue seemingly anymore, Papalymos death, no one even seems to mention him anymore, they were close friends for years, Lyses pointless rank up as Ala Mhigos new leader for the rebells? She not shows up anymore also, (which i am personally glad, i couldn't stand her, not to speak how pointless this swapout was perosnally, Yda still could ahd been Yda but they neededa pretty face as cover), and lets not forget about how as Vyrerus said, the countless people we killed because they were the "bad guys".

The only good thing in Stormblood, besides some Doma stuff was to show how we help also Garlenas, show tehy are just human as everyone else, which kind was forced with Fordola also but,another thing seemingly forgotten.

Same issue is with Zenos honestly, he shoudl had stayed dead, but they want us to hate him so much, while Emet Selch THE source of the Garlena Empire and one of the main Acians is wasted in one main story, not even end of Shadobringers. Yet Zenos gets shoved in our face as THE bad guy now which i honestly can't stand, it not makes much sense simply. Even Varis got killed of nearby.

[Alleo]

And now Raubahn has been moved over to Ala Mhigo (which, I have to note, was also partly on Nanamo, since he was waffling about it). We'll have to wait until the plot moves back to the Source to see how that works out for them.

Of course, now Raubahn is taking screen time from Lyse instead, but given how.....let's say, divisive her character became in Stormblood, I've yet to see anyone complaining about it.

It just makes no sense to me. They built up Lyse as being the one to lead Ala Mhigo..even kill of the old leader and not promote the other one that worked much longer with the restistance just because Lyse had a certain person as father..and now instead of using her and showing good leadership they use Raubahn instead..It could have been Lyse who calmed down the crowd, but no she was not able to do it. And then later messed up with the tempered ones too.

Honestly she really is a character that right now has no story relevance at all.

[Zumi]

Y'shtola basically is the Cloud of FFXIV.

[TheMightyMollusk]

It just makes no sense to me. They built up Lyse as being the one to lead Ala Mhigo..even kill of the old leader and not promote the other one that worked much longer with the restistance just because Lyse had a certain person as father..and now instead of using her and showing good leadership they use Raubahn instead..It could have been Lyse who calmed down the crowd, but no she was not able to do it. And then later messed up with the tempered ones too.

Honestly she really is a character that right now has no story relevance at all.

Which puts her in line with Kan-e-Senna, Merlwyb, Nanamo, Aymeric, and Hien, with their stories largely completed and thus mostly only show up in "gather the leaders" scenes. Raubahn shows up the most because he's pretty much the face of Eorzea's military.

[rachcouture]

If the intention is to tell a serious and compelling story, then character death is a necessity.

If you're a poor excuse of a writer that can't come up with a more creative way of ending a story arc than pulling a tired George R.R. Martin.

For people who are invested in the serious aspects of a story, it negatively impacts the story to know that there is no tension at all

And there's a thousand ways of building tension that don't involve killing off key characters like a literary sociopath.

The thing about tensions outside of death is that they are usually far less permanent.

Death is quick and final. Outside of those left mourning, there's nothing to go forward with. It's a dead end narrative street. Compared to something like exploring a character's deep-seated trauma and/or existential crises, it's a bargain bin option largely reversed for hack creators with little in the way of imaginative agency. This is the exact reason why I was so upset with how they handled Yotsuyu; killing the darling was a waste of a much better story to tell.

So you think that any of the examples you listed really ripple outwards as much as death? Guess you don't get impacted the same way by death in the real world either. You can always focus in more on a bad thing happening, and make it the pivotal element in your story, but death sticks around, even without you writing more on it. We don't dwell on death overlong in the story, because it is depressing by nature. The game doesn't like to keep a gloomy tone.

I've lost a number of loved ones over the past several years. Yes, it hurt, but I know they're at peace now, and don't have to experience any more pain, rather it be physical or emotional. You know what still hurts, though? The state of the world today, and being powerless to do anything about it in the face of wannabe authoritarians with more money than good intentions. People that might be homeless soon—family and friends included—courtesy of a virus that could have been largely avoided if actual action had been taken. World events like the above adding to an already extensive rapsheet of emotional trauma, chipping at mental health so poor that some days, I tell myself I don't want to wake up, because I'm so exhausted of all the hate, the violence, the disregard for the lives of others because they're not white, or straight, or masculine, or financially privileged, or whatever non-issue someone heartless and cruel decides to turn into a societal pinata; things I, my loved ones, and admired idols have been flogged for at one point or another.

There are things far more painful than death regardless of how much you want to trivialize them.

Anyway, Y'shtola is fabulous, and she isn't going anywhere as the game's mascot character. None of the other scions are, honestly. No amount of backseat writing is going to change that.

[RagingStallion]

In the end they killed nobody