Y'shtola's "Marketing Armor"

[Vyrerus]

The pitfall Game of Thrones books was that too many interesting character died and you just didn't care about the random grab bag of character that showed up in their place. That's one of the reasons you don't kill off character in a story, because your lose character relationships, story threads get broken and potential character arcs get cut short. Game of Thrones did it well at first because it was entirely logical that the effective protagonist was executed in the first book / first season but it started to turn the story into swiss cheese by book 4-5 seasons 4-5. Killing the character known as Tywin was it mistake, it just removed a very interesting character from the story and made the killer far less interesting.

I don't think they kill major characters for real enough in FFXIV to turn the story into a character devoid barren, and they also do a decent job at keeping side characters coming back... even if sometimes they seem sorta outta place or just tacked on.

Of course, it partially feels that way because we wait for 3~6 months at a time to read the next chapter, so the lesser characters kinda get memory holed.

[Edax]

I don't think they kill major characters for real enough in FFXIV to turn the story into a character devoid barren, and they also do a decent job at keeping side characters coming back... even if sometimes they seem sorta outta place or just tacked on.

Of course, it partially feels that way because we wait for 3~6 months at a time to read the next chapter, so the lesser characters kinda get memory holed.

I fully agree that more characters need to die in FFXIV, especially with the ongoing war and the character bloat. Nevertheless, targeting the Scions might not be a good idea since you risk destroying characters that have been built up over years and having them be replaced by newcomers few would cares about. For instance, faking out Sultana Nanamo's death was pointless, she has effectively been an extra in the story ever since. Any dialogue she's spoken in the MSQ cutscenes could have been spoken by Raubahn. It may have been more interesting to see Nanamo die and Raubahn try to take her place as leader of Ul'dah since he's already a long established character. But for the Scions, there aren't really any established characters that could readily take their place so killing a Scion risks making the story less interesting as the Scions perform a unique function.

[Allegor]

I fully agree that more characters need to die in FFXIV, especially with the ongoing war and the character bloat. Nevertheless, targeting the Scions might not be a good idea since you risk destroying characters that have been built up over years and having them be replaced by newcomers few would cares about. For instance, faking out Sultana Nanamo's death was pointless, she has effectively been an extra in the story ever since. Any dialogue she's spoken in the MSQ cutscenes could have been spoken by Raubahn. It may have been more interesting to see Nanamo die and Raubahn try to take her place as leader of Ul'dah since he's already a long established character. But for the Scions, there aren't really any established characters that could readily take their place so killing a Scion risks making the story less interesting as the Scions perform a unique function.

*discretely glaring at Lyse*

[TheMightyMollusk]

For instance, faking out Sultana Nanamo's death was pointless, she has effectively been an extra in the story ever since. Any dialogue she's spoken in the MSQ cutscenes could have been spoken by Raubahn. It may have been more interesting to see Nanamo die and Raubahn try to take her place as leader of Ul'dah since he's already a long established character. But for the Scions, there aren't really any established characters that could readily take their place so killing a Scion risks making the story less interesting as the Scions perform a unique function.

I have to disagree with this take. I feel that Nanamo's near-death experience was what pushed her to actually become a character rather than just an accessory to Raubahn. Before, whenever she appeared, she let him do all the talking, and when she did speak up, she got shouted down by Lolorito or Teledji. (I honestly spent most of ARR thinking that Raubahn was the actual ruler of Ul'dah, because Nanamo's so rarely seen!) Afterwards, she starts actually looking for ways to take charge and grow as a leader. She does most of the speaking for the Eorzean Alliance when they welcome Ishgard back at the end of Heavensward; she comes up with the plan to repatriate the Ala Mhigan refugees, takes Godbert's advice to heart and uses Lolorito's greed to her own ends; she even takes the lead in the negotiations with Varis at the Ghimlyt Dark. Nanamo is an example of a character actually growing from a near-death experience, not just shrugging it off and going about their business like Y'shtola keeps doing.

[Edax]

I have to disagree with this take. I feel that Nanamo's near-death experience was what pushed her to actually become a character rather than just an accessory to Raubahn. Before, whenever she appeared, she let him do all the talking, and when she did speak up, she got shouted down by Lolorito or Teledji. (I honestly spent most of ARR thinking that Raubahn was the actual ruler of Ul'dah, because Nanamo's so rarely seen!) Afterwards, she starts actually looking for ways to take charge and grow as a leader. She does most of the speaking for the Eorzean Alliance when they welcome Ishgard back at the end of Heavensward; she comes up with the plan to repatriate the Ala Mhigan refugees, takes Godbert's advice to heart and uses Lolorito's greed to her own ends; she even takes the lead in the negotiations with Varis at the Ghimlyt Dark. Nanamo is an example of a character actually growing from a near-death experience, not just shrugging it off and going about their business like Y'shtola keeps doing.

And yet somehow, I feel like most of she does could have been said and done by Raubahn. He too is a character growing from being just a grunt from the coliseum to leading a nation. Nanamo and Raubahn sort of make each other redundant. They're both leading the nation at the same time, only they eat away at each other's screentime.

[TheMightyMollusk]

And yet somehow, I feel like most of she does could have been said and done by Raubahn. He too is a character growing from being just a grunt from the coliseum to leading a nation. Nanamo and Raubahn sort of make each other redundant. They're both leading the nation at the same time, only they eat away at each other's screentime.

And now Raubahn has been moved over to Ala Mhigo (which, I have to note, was also partly on Nanamo, since he was waffling about it). We'll have to wait until the plot moves back to the Source to see how that works out for them.

Of course, now Raubahn is taking screen time from Lyse instead, but given how.....let's say, divisive her character became in Stormblood, I've yet to see anyone complaining about it.

[Alleo]

And now Raubahn has been moved over to Ala Mhigo (which, I have to note, was also partly on Nanamo, since he was waffling about it). We'll have to wait until the plot moves back to the Source to see how that works out for them.

Of course, now Raubahn is taking screen time from Lyse instead, but given how.....let's say, divisive her character became in Stormblood, I've yet to see anyone complaining about it.

It just makes no sense to me. They built up Lyse as being the one to lead Ala Mhigo..even kill of the old leader and not promote the other one that worked much longer with the restistance just because Lyse had a certain person as father..and now instead of using her and showing good leadership they use Raubahn instead..It could have been Lyse who calmed down the crowd, but no she was not able to do it. And then later messed up with the tempered ones too.

Honestly she really is a character that right now has no story relevance at all.

[TheMightyMollusk]

It just makes no sense to me. They built up Lyse as being the one to lead Ala Mhigo..even kill of the old leader and not promote the other one that worked much longer with the restistance just because Lyse had a certain person as father..and now instead of using her and showing good leadership they use Raubahn instead..It could have been Lyse who calmed down the crowd, but no she was not able to do it. And then later messed up with the tempered ones too.

Honestly she really is a character that right now has no story relevance at all.

Which puts her in line with Kan-e-Senna, Merlwyb, Nanamo, Aymeric, and Hien, with their stories largely completed and thus mostly only show up in "gather the leaders" scenes. Raubahn shows up the most because he's pretty much the face of Eorzea's military.

[Vyrerus]

I fully agree that more characters need to die in FFXIV, especially with the ongoing war and the character bloat. Nevertheless, targeting the Scions might not be a good idea since you risk destroying characters that have been built up over years and having them be replaced by newcomers few would cares about. For instance, faking out Sultana Nanamo's death was pointless, she has effectively been an extra in the story ever since. Any dialogue she's spoken in the MSQ cutscenes could have been spoken by Raubahn. It may have been more interesting to see Nanamo die and Raubahn try to take her place as leader of Ul'dah since he's already a long established character. But for the Scions, there aren't really any established characters that could readily take their place so killing a Scion risks making the story less interesting as the Scions perform a unique function.

Personally, I think that they could get away with killing a scion or two. I wouldn't want it to be a regular thing. It just bugs me that there's supposed to be consequences to character's actions, but they get off scot-free. It's not like I will stop enjoying the game if they never do kill a major Scion, but I know they've got writers that would write it well, and I also know that it would really drive up people's expectations as well as make the trailers with death baiting feel more suspensefull.

[Wissp]

I think one of the best deaths in the game was Tesleen. Sure she was just a minor character, but that's what made her fate so poignant. She was just a normal woman without any kind of power or fighting skill, helping those in need. Yet when one of her patients was threatened by the sin eaters, she did not hesitate to jump in and defend him even though she had no power or skill, no way to win, and she died for it.

Her sacrifice really hit me because it showed someone, a non powerful person, someone NORMAL, standing up against evil and giving her life to protect another.

They can grant someone minor a great death scene but not the characters they spend so much time developing, choosing to have them continuously go on and surviving.

But someone said the Scions have their fates plotted out already, so I hope at least a few end up having good deaths.