I am going to say something unpopular . . .

[AngelCheese77]

Oh I agree that if the entire party wants to go fast then they all should do that

But in you and the poster above you completely miss the point of THIS topic. Must be confusing it with the other one

This one was talking about anxiety and the use of it being an excuse for bad playing.

Honestly, whatever the "default" is for the community doesn't matter anyways. The only thing that matters is what that specific group wants to do in that specific run.

Nobody has to queue up expecting to follow some unwritten rule that some whiny brat on a forum made up; they just have to be willing accept a group consensus.

If you're the tank and the entire group wants you to speed up then you should attempt to. If you still refuse then accept the fact that you may get vote kicked. On the other hand, if you're a Healer and you want the tank to speed up, but he says no, and no one else in the group cares, then leave or shut up and heal. Don't hang around and nag or argue.

When you queue up with randoms there is no style of play that's going to be off limits. It will ALWAYS depend on what people you were fortunate/unfortunate enough to be paired with. If you have a real issue with how the run is going then attempt to get a group consensus, but otherwise a lot of people in this game really just need to deal with what queuing for a random team actually means.

[Ceridwenae]

As well as other points I bring up were ignored. Eh whatever. I’m dealing with a hurricane aftermath rn so can’t play anyway!!

Eep. I hope everything's okay for you!

[Ranaku]

From my experience it should rather be "The crown doesn't mean you know everything", i had (BY FAR) more bad runs with "mentors" than with sprouts or people with anxiety (is that really a thing?).

This really doesn't need a own thread tbh, should be common sense that you should be nice to people no matter what they are. Like teaching a sprout a bit if they don't perform well. And when you have a sprout playing icemage (blackmage with icespells only) and ignoring you and running into their deaths because they don't wait for the group then you kick them. Dunno what the big deal is here.

For the speedrunners here, if you can't adjust to your team and go into partyfinder without thinking about that you might encounter players that can't heal through your wall to wall pulls etc. then...dunno...get a brain somewhere. Or friends to get into the dungeons etc. as a rush group.

There is a ancient method called "communication", long lost but recently at least some people discovered it again it seems. If you use it the right way you can prevent many problems. Or you can choose to be a douchebag, flaming others and then kicking them. I believe there is a special place in hell for these people, a endless castrum run with cid and gaius talking nonstop.

[Awha]

I was going to try and let the thread die off since what you said made perfect sense. I do have a habit of using the wrong medium to find my answers so to speak. In truth I do have a far easier time talking this over face to face, be it through group, friends, family etc . . . though will not go into detail I do have trouble understanding empathy and compassion they do often fly over my head and I do agree that you are right that the game forums is not the proper place to have a varied discussion as to why people may do the things they do because well people are invested into the game so the points will have a sense of bias that may detract from the discussion, or lead the discussion down a linear path making it difficult looking past that bias we may have because we have an attachment to the game in some form or other.

That being said communication is a two way street and like it or not some do not communicate and or some do not respond well to it in the first place. So msny factors come into plsy with text that depending on the person even simple messages can be viewed as hostile attacks especially when brought up in front of other players. Sometimes it is fair easier to allow the vote feature to do the communicating so to speak to avoidnl any chance of conflict that most likely would not even result in a compromise. Though in an ideal world communication would lead to understanding but that is often not always the case and at times even if an understanding can be met it does not come about in a quick matter.Takes time and back snd forth dialog.

How does one define being nice to one another? What if soneone is playing a class I am not knowledgeable in should I tab out to pull up a guide and go over it to give the sprout some tips? Or what if someone generally is not a good teacher or for that matter simply just does not want to teach someone else. Should we write them off as not being "nice" cause they do not align with our own view of kindness?

I do not think when it comes to matters of human interaction we can boil them down to simple views like the golden rule, or be kind to one another etc . . . since we all have personal takes as to what that means within the game space. Since a game is an escape some may leave their standards at the login screen or just have a different set of standards within the game world since it operates on a different rule set.

Tbh you are not all wrong. Players shouldn't use their sprout status or other stuff as a excuse, at least not if they make the same mistake over and over and over again. But i think it's also the fault of SE for just letting people skip through the entire game up to 70 and then just "suggesting" they should maybe learn their class.

So don't be to harsh on yourself.

Though I do agree that SE does not do enough to encourage people to improve since in fact one can get carried throughout most content in this game. With echo even learning from mistakes is not always needed. Though I do get where SE is coming from to a degree. If people wisb to learn they will learn if not they will not. This is one of the main reasons I do not try to teach people in game at least without them asking for help first.

[Ranaku]

Tbh you are not all wrong. Players shouldn't use their sprout status or other stuff as a excuse, at least not if they make the same mistake over and over and over again. But i think it's also the fault of SE for just letting people skip through the entire game up to 70 and then just "suggesting" they should maybe learn their class.

So don't be to harsh on yourself.

[Veis_Alveare]

Oh, gods, my word count and that text wall. I'm so sorry, I hope it made some sense. Take it apart, especially if you think I'm on the wrong track entirely. I am making lots of time to talk about this because I think it matters.

I am a very direct person who doesn't really sugarcoat anything even when perhaps it would make my life easier to do so. It's totally fine, I'm aware between the lack of tone in a text based medium and the fact that I state things plainly rather than preface with mollifiers things I say are general given a less than generous interpretation.

I think your desire to help is admirable and your willingness to listen and learn is something I sorely wish more players (and people in general) could try to emulate.

I got defensive of Awha because the way your post read (to me) seemed to be making the point that if he was okay with kicking someone it meant he couldn't emphasize with them. As previously stated I'm blunt here and irl so this sort of accusation is something I've felt with myself for many years entirely separate from video games. It's in large part a product of my job I think, I don't have the luxury of flowery wording there and so I find little use for it elsewhere when a simple, direct response gets my point across all the same.

To me that's one of the things kicks do in XIV - it's a simple way to say "this is not working" without devolving into insults.

I don't think this discussion will ever really find a resolution as long as there are people unwilling to bend (or bend far enough) on what they consider appropriate DF play. SE has also backed my end of things into a corner with their ToS update. Previously I could explain to a WHM not using Holy at all that it would stun and do damage and that they should be using it, now if I do that and they ignore the (good, appropriate) advice and choose to report me for "compelling a playstyle" they have a leg to stand on. It's much simpler to silently kick and move on if someone is being significantly detrimental.

I hope that this has clarified some things. If you ever want to talk things over more my discord is swiftcastholy#9999 and I'm always open to meeting new people.

Eh whatever. I’m dealing with a hurricane aftermath rn so can’t play anyway!!

Good luck out there, it's a real mess.

[Ceridwenae]

<3 Much respect to you and Awha opening up here too. It's what we all need to do when we're otherwise at loggerheads. Finding out where people are coming from is first and foremost in coming to a workable solution for all - especially when most of us, at least the minority who post here, are doing it because we love this game and want everyone else to love it too. There's nothing wrong with a brusque manner (I admire it, especially as I often have the opposite approach - what's my word count at now, for goodness' sake?! ), and stating you have one shows you know yourself well, which is going to make it easier for you in general to adapt your manner to others, should you choose to. And I don't mind saying, if you now said X in this game is a thing and I should do it because my game life will be better for it, I'm now more likely to listen as you've opened up like this. Of course, that doesn't mean you want to give a life story in any duty you're in, so...

One bit of advice my husband gave me which I absolutely stand by: the good, strong leader knows when to adapt to each person to ensure each give their best (I do not claim to be a leader however, it's not my thing, but my husband is in his work and he's bloody excellent at it... no, I'm not biased at all... ). When you want to give advice in a duty, you're inherently placing yourself in that leadership role above the other party member(s) so it bears relevance.

Here's some further reading for you re advice giving for you to peruse if you want to:

https://hbr.org/2015/01/the-art-of-g...ceiving-advice

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/21/s...er-advice.html

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/228018


The following three are useful for seeing it from the point of view of someone receiving unsolicited advice for understanding why you might get a reaction:


https://www.verywellmind.com/handle-...stress-3144966

and

https://www.verywellmind.com/whats-b...advice-3144961

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...no-one-listens



Thank you for your Discord contact info! I'll admit I'm not often on it but I do check now and then so I sent you a friend request (I'm Ceridwen#0008). Leave a message when and if you want, anytime.

[Ceridwenae]

<3

I think you're golden, for what it's worth.

I posted some links just above, in my reply to @Veis_Alveare. They may interesting reading for you, too. Also, my Discord is in there if you want to message me about this.