I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

[linayar]

Apparently we have to be absolutely fine with people kicking us if were new or disabled too according to some people because were a burden. How nice and supportive for a community game.



That is not what Im reading. There is no consensus in that thread, and I havent seen a lot of casuals asking to be kicked either. Disabled people shouldnt be kicked because they might inconvenience people for 30-40 minutes in a duty. New people shouldnt be kicked for still learning.

I personally don't agree with kicking unless the person is afk/offline/obviously and intentionally being detrimental to the party's chance of succeeding (and no, doing a single pull doesn't decrease your chance of clearing a dungeon). Communication is also key to preventing rush judgement to vote kick.

But in a multiplayer environment, I accept that sometimes people just can't get along. And being a video game, it's really not worth trying to force people to do something they don't want to do. And as a tank, it's easier to requeue if you are kicked and hopefully find a more accommodating party.

In some cases, it's actually easier that way than if the other player(s) had chosen to leave instead. Sometimes that just ends up in the group waiting a long time for a replacement and then the remaining players may abandon the duty anyway.

[tdb]

My two cents as a healer main: dps using single target attacks on trash pulls with 3+ mobs or just generally doing bad damage annoys me far more than a tank doing small pulls. Runs with small pulls usually end up finishing reasonably fast, but I've had an occasional dungeon with max pulls where things just took forever to die and I had to resort to spamming Benefic II on the tank. So if the tank wants to do small pulls I let them. If I notice the dps getting fidgety I may ask if we could pull more (though TBH they could ask themselves, but some people seem to not even have a chat window) and indicate that I'm up to the task of healing large pulls, but ultimately it's the tank's choice.

[ReiMakoto]

Is there really no conceivable situation where someone might still pull less?
Perhaps they just ran this duty, and KNOW they can't manage more mobs, but still haven't levelled past it and are running it again.
Perhaps they see the healer is undergeared and pull slower. I know I've been there and still had a DPS still gets unhappy about the pace.
Perhaps they fucked up and actually need to slow down. Maybe they hit too many cooldowns before or hit one on accident and don't have the stuff to take another big pull.
Perhaps some people just don't learn by that trial by fire method and they want to ease into things with a more measured approach.
Yes, learning and pushing yourself are important, but that doesn't mean you're only option is big pulls.

For the first pull of a dungeon. Yes there is no reason why you shouldn't pull more than one, there is no other way of knowing wether or not you can double pull the content than practice, and the worst that can happen is you die, which is literally not an issue, i would much rather someone actually try and die than pull a single pack. to take your points one by one.

- If you just ran it and couldnt handle more than one that time then you had a bad healer, maybe this healer is better.
- The healer being undergeared is irrelevant, min item level healers can still heal through double packs
- Dungeons are undertuned enough that even with no cds you can survive double pulls
- You arn't learning anything by pulling single packs, your rotation is the same and you cycle cooldowns essentially the same, eitherway, the only difference is the number of mobs

[Erudito]

There is a distinction between efficient play and rushing. If you are pulling more than one mob taking note the healer can manage said mob set and nobody is pulling ahead of you (or the tank), then its efficient playing.

If the healer or DPS is going ahead of the tank to pull things then that is rush play. If this happens, then the tank just has to make sure their AoEs don't touch the extra mobs. When the rusher dies, they will either leave or stop playing - then you kick.

[AnnaRosa]

The meta, from what I gleaned in both conversations on this forum and elsewhere as well as some Youtube videos on the matter, seems to be about blowing through a dungeon as quickly as possible. That's not fun for me, especially when I'm tanking. I will do the biggest pulls I can manage, and I will pump out as much DPS as I can while maintaining aggro, but I likely will not just rush rush rush through a dungeon as quickly as I can.

Few days ago, while running a Level 80 roulette, I had a healer who kept running out ahead of me, the tank. They were drawing aggro from the mobs while I was trying to play catch-up, and I was damned tempted to let them die.

Don't worry that only happens once in a while if they want to pull let them just think they are feeling happy by doing so.

[LittleImp]

If the healer or DPS is going ahead of the tank to pull things then that is rush play. If this happens, then the tank just has to make sure their AoEs don't touch the extra mobs. When the rusher dies, they will either leave or stop playing - then you kick.

Refusal to participate in the duty is considered griefing and can get you sent to GM jail: Do not do this.

Try to deal with the extra mobs to the best of your ability: If you survive the pull, you weren't pulling enough. If you wipe, you can blame the 'rusher' and dismiss them from the duty without any baggage.

Forcing a wipe in a situation that can be easily recovered just because you want to 'punish' someone is far and away more toxic than grabbing extra mobs because you think the party can handle it.

[Deceptus]

Refusal to participate in the duty is considered griefing and can get you sent to GM jail: Do not do this.

Which is why you don't say a damn thing if you do it. Just let them die and they'll get the picture. Eventually.

If you want to lead the group, play a tank.

[Corrie]

I personally don't agree with kicking unless the person is afk/offline/obviously and intentionally being detrimental to the party's chance of succeeding (and no, doing a single pull doesn't decrease your chance of clearing a dungeon). Communication is also key to preventing rush judgement to vote kick.

But in a multiplayer environment, I accept that sometimes people just can't get along. And being a video game, it's really not worth trying to force people to do something they don't want to do. And as a tank, it's easier to requeue if you are kicked and hopefully find a more accommodating party.

In some cases, it's actually easier that way than if the other player(s) had chosen to leave instead. Sometimes that just ends up in the group waiting a long time for a replacement and then the remaining players may abandon the duty anyway.

Im not a tank, my dps queues are long so if I get kicked for being new then yea Im going to be mad. Kicking people for being new or disabled doesnt foster a good community and in fact if its normal to kick new people I might as well not even play then. If other people choose not to get a long for those reasons maybe THEY should leave. Doing roulette means you might meet disabled and new people so if you absolutly cant stand playing with them then maybe not do roulettes. I dont like rushing because I havent learned how to handle it yet but Id never kick someone for it. I try my best and that should be good enough, its a god damned game that uses teamwork. Let people learn.

[linayar]

Im not a tank, my dps queues are long so if I get kicked for being new then yea Im going to be mad. Kicking people for being new or disabled doesnt foster a good community and in fact if its normal to kick new people I might as well not even play then. If other people choose not to get a long for those reasons maybe THEY should leave. Doing roulette means you might meet disabled and new people so if you absolutly cant stand playing with them then maybe not do roulettes. I dont like rushing because I havent learned how to handle it yet but Id never kick someone for it. I try my best and that should be good enough, its a god damned game that uses teamwork. Let people learn.

I've rarely seen anyone get kicked unless they're offline. So you shouldn't worry as a new player (or disabled). Again, communication is key if you're worried.

[SaberMaxwell]

There is a distinction between efficient play and rushing. If you are pulling more than one mob taking note the healer can manage said mob set and nobody is pulling ahead of you (or the tank), then its efficient playing.

If the healer or DPS is going ahead of the tank to pull things then that is rush play. If this happens, then the tank just has to make sure their AoEs don't touch the extra mobs. When the rusher dies, they will either leave or stop playing - then you kick.

Lol "when." Dungeon mobs hit like wet noodles 95% of the time, so most of the time the rusher is just gonna kill their mobs and everything will proceed smoothly.