Extreme trials and the DF

[Canadane]

Well, I always get them in Mentor Roulette. It's kind of annoying wiping like 90 minutes to Sophia EX & Co.

When I get them in Mentor roulette I do stay to help but I also take the time to educate about party finder. Teaching someone to use PF is one of the greatest gifts you can do give to a new player, it's a very useful tool.

[Townowi]

As much as I would like a separate Lv50/60/70 EX trials roulette in the high-end DF, I would also like a separate Lv50/60/70 trials roulette for the regular DF that will not have any EX trial in it, with ShB trials in its own roulette, as is the case for dungeons, and maybe normal raids.

[Ilenya]

I would like this.

I'm confused. That's just what is now the 80 roulette plus Expert put together.

Edit to add; If they could add a new Ex trial roulette easily enough, I don't see why they couldn't. If it takes too much development time, it's likely not worth it.

[Frosthaven]

I would queue up synced EX trial roulette every day, even knowing it'll only ever be me and one random other person for 3 hours in queue before we both give up.

;_;

[Helero]

I often get lv 50 and 60 ex trials in mentor roulet and even with a lot of new people I had only one or two instances where we did not beat them befor the end of the timer. Most of the time it gets beaten at the 3rd or 4th pull.

That being said it takes a lot more effort to do so then normal raids, dungeons etc (with I think is the fun part of mentor roulet but I get why it can be frustrating for other people)

My conclusion is that the gear creep, even for new player, is pretty high (+ the echo buff of course) so I would not put it in the expert tap. But I might be wrong about that, I have no numbers to back up that clame.

I do personally like the idea of a roulet for only ex trials but I am not sure how popular this would be in the average player base.

[linayar]

I often get lv 50 and 60 ex trials in mentor roulet and even with a lot of new people I had only one or two instances where we did not beat them befor the end of the timer. Most of the time it gets beaten at the 3rd or 4th pull.

Reading this, it makes me wish that players in NA would be more willing to do current EX trials without using party finder. Sure, it can fail, but you can fail with a PF group as well, and being able to clear with complete random strangers on random jobs on the third or fourth pull seems awesome.

[Liam_Harper]

Reading this, it makes me wish that players in NA would be more willing to do current EX trials without using party finder. Sure, it can fail, but you can fail with a PF group as well, and being able to clear with complete random strangers on random jobs on the third or fourth pull seems awesome.

While the JP servers are more open to queuing DF, they also have less of a "you don't pay my sub, I'll play terribly if I want" attitude. It's more expected you'll be a team player, at least try your best and they'll just quietly replace someone who refuses to do so. This makes DF function better.

NA/EU has the issue where laziness and lack of teamwork is almost encouraged. Thus DF often cannot function at high level. If one or more players refuse to put effort in, the duty becomes mathematically impossible. That has resulted in a culture where the players who want to work as a team will try and separate themselves off from the ones who don't care.

I feel an EX trial roulette would open a can of worms where the good players will avoid it and it'll be filled with the players who just want to hop in for the ride and see what happens. Even mentor roulette has a mentor or two in the group, this probably wouldn't have even that. They'd have a very high fail rate and that type of player would immediately go to the forums to complain about how difficult and ridiculous it is. Being paying customers, the devs might even listen to them and nerf EX further to the point that it becomes a glorified Normal mode. I think EX is fine in its current form and the Unreal Trials seem to be their first attempt at bringing the old ones back to life.

[linayar]

While the JP servers are more open to queuing DF, they also have less of a "you don't pay my sub, I'll play terribly if I want" attitude. It's more expected you'll be a team player, at least try your best and they'll just quietly replace someone who refuses to do so. This makes DF function better.

NA/EU has the issue where laziness and lack of teamwork is almost encouraged. Thus DF often cannot function at high level. If one or more players refuse to put effort in, the duty becomes mathematically impossible. That has resulted in a culture where the players who want to work as a team will try and separate themselves off from the ones who don't care.

I feel an EX trial roulette would open a can of worms where the good players will avoid it and it'll be filled with the players who just want to hop in for the ride and see what happens. Even mentor roulette has a mentor or two in the group, this probably wouldn't have even that. They'd have a very high fail rate and that type of player would immediately go to the forums to complain about how difficult and ridiculous it is. Being paying customers, the devs might even listen to them and nerf EX further to the point that it becomes a glorified Normal mode. I think EX is fine in its current form and the Unreal Trials seem to be their first attempt at bringing the old ones back to life.

Yeah, I get that. Just wishful thinking.

[TheRealQuah]

An EX roulette would be awful. Personally I would never queue for it, and I the majority of people I know wouldn't either. Because EX trials take effort and teamwork to complete, and the roulette queue would be composed of precisely the opposite of people with that mindset.

[LineageRazor]

Folks have talked about Extreme and Savage Roulettes for a long time now - and they simply would not be viable. Some of the early fights can be won in a session (my experience with Mentor Roulette shows this is true), but the difficulty of the fights advances with each expansion to the point where it's virtually hopeless to secure a win in the 60 minute limit. And when you sign up again, its with a whole new batch of newbies that have to be trained up from scratch!

I can see reasons both to leave these fights in Duty Finder, and also to move them to Raid Finder, but either way, someone signing up in Duty Finder should be given the warning that the content is advanced difficulty, and that Party Finder is a better tool for finding menbers for the fight. This applies both if you just want a quick, unsynced clear, or wish to find folks willing to do it synced for the challenge.

Putting Extreme fights in Mentor Roulette was a mistake, at least for the current requirements it takes to become a Mentor. While clearing the fights are necessary, clearing them SYNCED is not. Probably the majority of folks that qualify as Mentors do not know how to do the fights synced, so it makes little sense to plunk them in with a bunch of newbies and expect them to show them how to do it.

A lot of newbies wind up in Mentor Roulette staffed Extreme fights not because they WANT to do it the hard way, but simply because they do not know about Party Finder, as Canadane mentioned above. They don't mesh well with folks that are actually looking to do the fight the hard way, or with Mentors that don't know the fight at all.

Now, I should also mention that hate having to say everything I just stated. Every last word. Oft I echo the status quo, but it doesn't mean I agree with it. For players like me, the challenge of clearing these fights IS the incentive. If I could group up with seven other players willing to learn, play nice, and care about performing well I couldn't care less about the rewards.

I hear you, and I sympethize. Way back, I was late to get on the Binding Coil train, and I formed a group in Party Finder for Coil 2 with the intent of NOT using the cheap Enrage strat - to actually learn the fight with passing of Allegan Rot and all that. It eventually filled - and half the party hadn't bothered to read the party finder text and refused to get on board with the plan. We eventually did Enrage anyway.

People choose the quickest and easiest path, in general There are outliers - but for most, there's too many things out there to do, to spend unnecessary time on any of them.

That said, you are not alone. There ARE challenge-seekers out there. Use Party Finder to find them. Friend them. Make a linkshell. You won't get a full party of eight quickly, but it will happen in due time. Maybe if you're really lucky, they'll even go for the masochist's paradise that is the Minimum Item Level setting! :3