"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Eh, if many randoms don't do them and can't seem to handle them then they're not the default. Cry about everyone being bad all you want if it makes you feel special; I'm just stating observable fact. Them being the default expectation for some people doesn't make them the default.

If we're talking common sense, you generally don't default to the method with the highest failure rate when working with random people.

Almost every dungeon I get in roulettes is big pulls. Not sure where you're seeing most people not doing this.


Its been the standard since 2.0 lol.

[Goji1639]

Almost every dungeon I get in roulettes is big pulls. Not sure where you're seeing most people not doing this.


Its been the standard since 2.0 lol.

Most dungeons don't even have big pulls. The few that do I only occasionally see people attempt them, and they end in failure frequently enough.

[Melichoir]

Most dungeons don't even have big pulls. The few that do I only occasionally see people attempt them, and they end in failure frequently enough.

Im curious how you define big pulls.

[Goji1639]

Im curious how you define big pulls.

The only recent one I remember is that long stretch in Anyder; I've seen a ton of groups fail that one. Most dungeons seem to gate you after 2-3 packs, though.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The only recent one I remember is that long stretch in Anyder; I've seen a ton of groups fail that one. Most dungeons seem to gate you after 2-3 packs, though.

Yeah, this is what we define as big pulls. All packs between gates. 2-3 packs, depending. I've never seen that pull fail tho.

[Lucy_Pyre]

Eh, if many randoms don't do them and can't seem to handle them then they're not the default. Cry about everyone being bad all you want if it makes you feel special; I'm just stating observable fact. Them being the default expectation for some people doesn't make them the default.

If we're talking common sense, you generally don't default to the method with the highest failure rate when working with random people.

You're stating nothing but nonsense. Rarely do I get into even complete pug DF groups and have the tank pull small when I'm on DPS/healer. As for the huge pull in Anyder, I'd say I see groups wipe to it less than 10% of the time. So iunno man, if you're seeing these huge failure rates on such easy, simple content, I think it's pretty obvious that the underlying issue in all of these occurrences is you.

[Goji1639]

Yeah, this is what we define as big pulls. All packs between gates. 2-3 packs, depending. I've never seen that pull fail tho.

Then your definition of big pulls varies so wildly that it makes this discussion pointless. Some dungeons gate you after 1 pack; some let you pull half the instance.

Expecting wall to wall when you're getting gated every 2 packs is obviously fine. Expecting wall to wall in every possible situation from a group of random people is dumb; wall to wall in every possible situation is not the default I've seen.

You're stating nothing but nonsense. Rarely do I get into even complete pug DF groups and have the tank pull small when I'm on DPS/healer. As for the huge pull in Anyder, I'd say I see groups wipe to it less than 10% of the time. So iunno man, if you're seeing these huge failure rates on such easy, simple content, I think it's pretty obvious that the underlying issue in all of these occurrences is you.

Usually when big pulls fail it's the tank going down in the first 30 seconds, or the healer starts regening before the pull is finished and gets killed. I don't think there's much I could do as DPS to save that, but if you say it's my fault then it must be.

For a massive pull to work everyone needs to be on the same page. That's why it's generally not the default in random groups.

[Lucy_Pyre]

I don't think there's much I could do as DPS to save that

When you aren't even capable of stringing together a halfway passable rotation or use your job's kit to even its partial potential, yeah you're absolutely party to the blame of the failure.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Of course it varies based on the dungeon. We can't say 4 pack pulls are standard if not every dungeon has 4 packs that can be pulled.


Now you are just arguing semantics.

[Goji1639]

When you aren't even capable of stringing together a halfway passable rotation or use your job's kit to even its partial potential, yeah you're absolutely party to the blame of the failure.

So my DPS rotation is the problem when the pull fails in the first 30 seconds because the tank or healer dies? Gotcha, awesome note. You clearly know what you're talking about. Elite veteran player with super sharp instincts.

Of course it varies based on the dungeon. We can't say 4 pack pulls are standard if not every dungeon has 4 packs that can be pulled.


Now you are just arguing semantics.

"Big pulls" are standard is uselessly vague. The fact that you all can't even really define what it is you want is why this thread has been arguing in circles.

Wall to wall is a perfectly reasonable expectation when the instance doesn't even allow legitimately big pulls.