"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

[Goji1639]

Except my point isn't picking fights. It's giving advice so that in a 4 person team, there's not only 3 people giving significant contribute.

And like I said, you're only calling it picking a fight because giving advice to underperformers for some deep seated reason bothers you at a fundamental level.

Not to mention that, if the person heeds the advice, not only will you save time in the current run but also any future runs the person runs will be significantly shorter.

Giving advice in public bother me, because it singles out 1 person in front of the group and picks a fight.

Giving advice in private doesn't bother me, because it's far less likely to make the other person defensive and pick a fight.

Criticizing people in public is bad manners, and bad manners cause issues in groups. If someone in the group is intent on causing issues I'd prefer them gone.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Giving advice in public bother me, because it singles out 1 person in front of the group and picks a fight.

Giving advice in private doesn't bother me, because it's far less likely to make the other person defensive and pick a fight.

Criticizing people in public is bad manners, and bad manners cause issues in groups. If someone in the group is intent on causing issues I'd prefer them gone.

Criticizing people in public isn't rude or bad manners. The only people claiming so are people who take any advice, criticism or any kind of input as an attack, whether it was given in public or private. Ofc they'd claim it's rude so they avoid having any advice given.

SE's mentor system hinges on players giving advice to players during duties (independently of how the playerbase misuses the system). Nothing in there says "give advice only in private, because it's rude otherwise"

[Goji1639]

Criticizing people in public isn't rude or bad manners. The only people claiming so are people who take any advice, criticism or any kind of input as an attack, whether it was given in public or private. Ofc they'd claim it's rude so they avoid having any advice given.

SE's mentor system hinges on players giving advice to players during duties (independently of how the playerbase misuses the system). Nothing in there says "give advice only in private, because it's rude otherwise"

No, criticizing people in public is bad manners, period.

I mean, it's one thing for you all to be like this in a game, but I really hope you're not doing this kind of thing to people at work or in real life social situations. I'm starting to think the reason there's so many communication issues in this game is that a lot of you honestly have no earthly clue how to interact with people.

Edit: Mentoring is a different situation entirely. If you're positioned as a teacher in what's positioned as a classroom then it's socially acceptable to offer criticism without much formality, in your defined role as teacher.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

No, criticizing people in public is bad manners, period.

I mean, it's one thing for you all to be like this in a game, but I really hope you're not doing this kind of thing to people at work or in real life social situations. I'm starting to think the reason there's so many communication issues in this game is that a lot of you honestly have no earthly clue how to interact with people.

No, criticizing people in public is only claimed as rude by the people receiving criticism. Because obviously they want to avoid being criticized any way they can. Antisocial people don't get to claim the rules of communication.

There's so much communications issues in this game because people don't want to communicate and any attempt at it is considered a personal attack. Pretty much what you're advocating here.

Communicating doesn't mean "agreeing with everything I do and say and don't ever criticize me".

[Goji1639]

No, criticizing people in public is only claimed as rude by the people receiving criticism. Because obviously they want to avoid being criticized any way they can. Antisocial people don't get to claim the rules of communication.

There's so much communications issues in this game because people don't want to communicate and any attempt at it is considered a personal attack. Pretty much what you're advocating here.

Communicating doesn't mean "agreeing with everything I do and say and don't ever criticize me".

You can criticize; either privately or as a mentor if you want to teach in an official capacity.

The problem is that you criticize people in a rude way and expect a positive response. Put in the effort to be polite and things might turn out different for you.

[Lucy_Pyre]

The content is easy and you clear fast 99% of the time

I'm quite certain you and I have wildly different opinions of a 'fast' clear. Because unless the dungeon is sub-13 minutes I don't consider that 'fast' at all, and to clear *most* dungeons in that time frame you have to have all party members involved doing relatively good amounts of damage.

[Goji1639]

I'm quite certain you and I have wildly different opinions of a 'fast' clear. Because unless the dungeon is sub-13 minutes I don't consider that 'fast' at all, and to clear *most* dungeons in that time frame you have to have all party members involved doing relatively good amounts of damage.

Most runs clear fast enough. If it's looking like the run may take 15-20 minutes then just start arguing with the healer who isn't DPSing. That'll speed things up.

[Doozer]

Still at it, huh. Proud of you.

[Lucy_Pyre]

Most runs clear fast enough. If it's looking like the run may take 15-20 minutes then just start arguing with the healer who isn't DPSing. That'll speed things up.

If you're a healer at level 80 and you still don't use your damage spells then I frankly don't care if it makes the run take longer, you need to be set straight because that's just downright unacceptable.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

You can criticize; either privately or as a mentor if you want to teach in an official capacity.

The problem is that you criticize people in a rude way and expect a positive response. Put in the effort to be polite and things might turn out different for you.

False. You can give feedback to a player that may be struggling to grasp their class in a dungeon without it coming off as rude. It's not rude to try and help people. There's no bad manners about it. I ask my groups if there's anything I can do to improve at the end of a dungeon. Sometimes they leave complements, constructive feedback, or just say nothing at all! We as players shouldn't be afraid of constructive criticism. If it's mindless name calling? Sure, that's rude and bad manners. But to simply offer some advice that could be helpful? I find it helpful. I found out many neat tips from other players because they felt like sharing.