"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

[Miracle_Diva]

Dude, you don't have to play with anyone you don't want to. Even if a run is going fine; if the whole team agrees another persons playstyle is a problem then there's a tool for that. Even if the whole team doesn't agree but you have a problem, there's a tool for that.

Fact still remains that it's not a classroom and you're not a teacher. Trying to teach in contexts where you're not a teacher will generally be viewed as pomposity, and could easily result in a fight. It's just something you should realize and accept.

Personally, if a run is going fine and you decided to start randomly calling out the healer on everything he's not doing, I'd probably just vote kick you before the argument starts.

I think you are just projecting your "beliefs" and fears onto every random that is possible to meet ever and it's more of your personal problem with "helping others" rather than how it is going to be with everyone else. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Goji1639]

All I'm saying is that if a run is going fine I don't want people starting crap. And yes, an unnecessary "here's everything player X is doing wrong" post nobody asked for being thrown into party chat, singling someone out IS starting crap.

A lot of you badly need to learn the difference between being helpful and being a nuisance.

[Miracle_Diva]

All I'm saying is that if a run is going fine I don't want people starting crap. And yes, an unnecessary "here's everything player X is doing wrong" post nobody asked for being thrown into party chat, singling someone out IS starting crap.

A lot of you badly need to learn the difference between being helpful and being a nuisance.

You need to finally understand, that no one here wants to jump on people with advises if things go alright.

People get angry, upset, they come to play tired, they get frustrated when things go not how they expected, then they go vent. A lot of *crap* can be finished with simple *sorry, didn't mean that* or you can turn off party chat at all to not see it.
It's only up to you to ignore negativity or be angry about it. "How dare they".

[JohnSpawnVFX]

All I'm saying is that if a run is going fine I don't want people starting crap. And yes, an unnecessary "here's everything player X is doing wrong" post nobody asked for being thrown into party chat, singling someone out IS starting crap.

A lot of you badly need to learn the difference between being helpful and being a nuisance.

Except it's only going fine to the willfully ignorant player. You're excusing letting a player continue to not play their class properly to not starting drama. It's only drama for the willfull ignorant (and their defenders).

A lot of you need to stop excusing bad gameplay and laziness. Calling out something wrong is only a nuisance to the one doing the wrong thing.

[Daibunnie]

A lot of you badly need to learn the difference between being helpful and being a nuisance.

And being severely undergeared or just not knowing how to use your skills properly isn't being a nuisance to everyone else? Why excuse laziness and being willfully ignorant under the guise of "the run is going fine?"

[Goji1639]

And being severely undergeared or just not knowing how to use your skills properly isn't being a nuisance to everyone else? Why excuse laziness and being willfully ignorant under the guise of "the run is going fine?"

Because if the run is going fine there's no reason to care? If you want to argue with someone for the sake of arguing then I'm only asking that you wait until after the run. Once the run is completed you can track them down and annoy them in the guise of "helping" to your hearts content.

You'll get to convince yourself that you don't take no crap from lazy people, and I won't have to listen to it. Everybody wins.

[Lucy_Pyre]

Because if the run is going fine there's no reason to care?

This is very, very wrong. There is a reason to care. Because even if the run is going 'fine' (although I suspect we have different definitions of 'fine') by not speaking up and saying anything to a player who is playing horribly incorrectly or is doing something that they shouldn't (such as being a tank in gear 50 ilvls below the instance you're in) you will lead those players to believe that what they're doing is okay. It allows those bad habits and other such things to fester and breed, when we should, as a community, be snuffing those hints of fire out and instructing those individuals in the proper way of doing things instead.

[Goji1639]

This is very, very wrong. There is a reason to care. Because even if the run is going 'fine' (although I suspect we have different definitions of 'fine') by not speaking up and saying anything to a player who is playing horribly incorrectly or is doing something that they shouldn't (such as being a tank in gear 50 ilvls below the instance you're in) you will lead those players to believe that what they're doing is okay. It allows those bad habits and other such things to fester and breed, when we should, as a community, be snuffing those hints of fire out and instructing those individuals in the proper way of doing things instead.

None of this is your job, but if you feel like you HAVE to force feed lessons to people here's how you do it.

AFTER the run you track the player down and message them in private. It's a little extra effort, but worth it if you're actually serious about helping people.

A stranger singling someone out in front of other strangers is kind of a jerk move; that's just how it is. Knowing that you should limit that kind of activity to situations where it's necessary. I'm not speaking specifically to any of your anecdotes; I'm saying it's something you should keep in mind before offering advice in general.

Why SHOULDN'T you care? Because it doesn't affect YOU? Take tanks who come into 75+ dungeons in lvl 70 gear, imagine healing that. Plus even to this level some of them refuse to use or don't know that they have defensive cooldowns. Why shouldn't you care? Because you're not that healer who will have to deal with this kind of player? Or ice mages who deal absolutely no damage? It takes not only more time to kill stuff, but to tank it and heal through it.

If the healer can't handle it then the run isn't fine.

I've healed undergeared tanks in roulettes; as long as you're geared it's really not THAT big of a deal. These dungeons are scaled ridiculously low; if you've been ilvl synched and the tank was actually able to get into the dungeon then you're fine. It'll just take a bit longer because you can't DPS as much.

[SturmChurro]

None of this is your job, but if you feel like you HAVE to force feed lessons to people here's how you do it.

AFTER the run you track the player down and message them in private. It's a little extra effort, but worth it if you're actually serious about helping people.

A stranger singling someone out in front of other strangers is kind of a jerk move; that's just how it is. Knowing that you should limit that kind of activity to situations where it's necessary. I'm not speaking specifically to any of your anecdotes; I'm saying it's something you should keep in mind before offering advice in general.

Tracking down someone? Are you literally suggesting targeted harassment? Jeez.. I'd have thought if you were going to offer "advice" it would be most proper to do it while actually doing said content. Where you can actually put it in practice.

[Daibunnie]

Because if the run is going fine there's no reason to care?

Define "going fine." Also, wonder how much of "going fine" will be tolerated even by the worst of the bunch.