"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

[Nestama]

My experience when it comes to people giving unsolicited advice has never been positive.

Please explain, or give examples on why they weren't positive. Were they rude or just blunt when giving advice? were they rude after a certain point?

[Laesha]

Please explain, or give examples on why they weren't positive. Were they rude or just blunt when giving advice? were they rude after a certain point?

Most of the ones i see are terse, obnoxious, often macro'ed with sounds.

USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>

"L2P, regen is your best heal"

Telling a dancer not do aoe on groups of 2 or use their aoe procs on single targets. (aoe is for 3 or more)

I see lots of people who feel required to speak up and "advise" healers who are "not doing enough dps", while I'm busy burying them.

One in particular that I remember having that was directed at myself-

I joined an expert rou as Ast. The group kept a good pace, so I did my best to deal as much dps as possible, minimize overhealing, etc. Naturally this caused the group HP to hover around 70%. No one died, and I felt very good about my performance. After the first boss to the end of the dungeon I was called lazy, bad, worthless. I was told I wasn't healing nearly enough, that my job was to keep people topped off. etc. I rolled my eyes and finished the dungeon. Apparently me ignoring their advice wasn't enough to warrant a kick, just abuse.

I've been told that @ level 80, fire 2 should be a big part of my blm aoe rotation. I've been told that I should never use TBN on drk.

Some of that advice was delivered kindly, other abusively. All bad. And as I think i mentioned, lots of advisors i've seen tend to be rather terrible players. I can honestly remember only 2 mentors (with the crown) that i found impressive and would have been interested in advice from based on their play. (I remember them specifically because they are so rare. One was in a 50/60 run of the Anti-tower during Stormblood. He was one of the best bards i've ever seen. And the other was a very good warrior that I don't recall using a single GCD heal on in Grand Cosmos)

Edit - other ones that i think of are healers who rescue me into death, then bitch when i tell them I didn't need a rescue and the incoming damage was fully intended and fully survivable. (specifics that come to mind are yanking me away from EV4 Shiva's center holy when i'm on tank and can easily survive with some cooldowns. In Rabanastre during Stormblood, i would often take hits with Riddle of Earth to keep my stacks and then heal myself. The phase switch from Garuda to Ifrit on EV2.) All of which basically reinforce my idea that they are just being pretentious by thinking they know better than I do. If i want help, i will ask for it (or more likely seek it out myself)

[Vahlnir]

Most of the ones i see are terse, obnoxious, often macro'ed with sounds.

Some of that advice was delivered kindly, other abusively. All bad. And as I think i mentioned, lots of advisors i've seen tend to be rather terrible players. I can honestly remember only 2 mentors (with the crown) that i found impressive and would have been interested in advice from based on their play. (I remember them specifically because they are so rare. One was in a 50/60 run of the Anti-tower during Stormblood. He was one of the best bards i've ever seen. And the other was a very good warrior that I don't recall using a single GCD heal on in Grand Cosmos)

Aside from that Grand Cosmos run (which people were clearly being jerks while you were doing just fine) some of what you have listed isn't BAD advice, but the delivery wasn't good. AoE on 2 enemies is a waste of time and resources. Regen is also very useful. If someone had to resort to spamming a macro for Holy usage (or felt the need to make one in the first place) then I think the issue was that particular healer at the time and others who don't use Holy, when they probably should be. Again, not bad advice, but it could have been worded better instead of coming from a place of frustration...or spamming chat with an obnoxious macro. In raids, healers are tasked with minimizing damage as well as keeping people upright if they can. So yeah, they will rescue you to avoid unnecessary damage. Just because you CAN survive something doesn't always mean it's a good idea. To me, that is being somewhat bullheaded for no reason. They're doing their jobs. As a tank, you should be looking to minimize your own incoming damage wherever possible. Why take more when you could have taken less?

[Laesha]

Aside from that Grand Cosmos run (which people were clearly being jerks while you were doing just fine) some of what you have listed isn't BAD advice, but the delivery wasn't good. AoE on 2 enemies is a waste of time and resources.

Lol - dancer aoe on 2 is higher potency than single target. And aoe procs are higher potency than single target 1 2, and is only not worth using if you're about to lose your timer on a single target proc

and yes, obviously I know regen and holy are good abilities, but regen is not always the "best" heal. Why regen 3 when you can put up a medica. And no, if a healer doesn't want to spam the shit out of holy because they aren't comfortable, I will absolutely vote along side them to kick that spammer. And as I pointed out before, i'm of the opinion that if someone uses poor wording, it is also their responsibility and compounds the rudeness of their "advice"

[Vahlnir]

Lol - dancer aoe on 2 is higher potency than single target.

and yes, obviously I know regen and holy are good abilities, but regen is not always the "best" heal. Why regen 3 when you can put up a medica. And no, if a healer doesn't want to spam the shit out of holy because they aren't comfortable, I will absolutely vote along side them to kick that spammer. And as I pointed out before, i'm of the opinion that if someone uses poor wording, it is also their responsibility and compounds the rudeness of their "advice"

If a healer isn't comfortable then obviously they should focus on healing more than dps. But Holy is in their toolkit for a reason.

[Laesha]

But Holy is in their toolkit for a reason.

Who are you trying to convince of this?

Also, it's good to know that based on how you probably feel while you run that day, you may arbitrarily fall on one side of the line (comfort level is important) vs. the other (healer is lazy and not dps'ing)

bad advice....

[Vahlnir]

Who are you trying to convince of this?

Also, it's good to know that based on how you probably feel while you run that day, you may arbitrarily fall on one side of the line (comfort level is important) vs. the other (healer is lazy and not dps'ing)

bad advice....

I have a pretty high tolerance for people on any given day. As I said, if a healer isn't comfortable with dpsing and healing then they should stick to healing. But I do feel that Holy should be used more often than it is. Do I say anything? No. As long as people are kept upright I really don't care that much. If things are bad enough in any piece of content I will just leave in silence. I'm just a fan of using everything available in one's toolkit. That isn't me picking sides depending on the day. That is me seeing both sides of this and understanding them.

[Veis_Alveare]

Who are you trying to convince of this?

Also, it's good to know that based on how you probably feel while you run that day, you may arbitrarily fall on one side of the line (comfort level is important) vs. the other (healer is lazy and not dps'ing)

bad advice....

No one gets comfortable without trying.

If a WHM is refusing to Holy they should be kicked, period.

Now that can happen two ways - one, advising them on the benefits of the spell and seeing if they pick it up. "Hey [WHM] if you Holy on big pulls it stuns everything which saves you from having to heal that damage up, plus it helps kill stuff" isn't hard to type out if you've got a keyboard.

Or... silent kick?

Like you understand those are the two options, right? And that you're advocating for people to be silently kicked rather than advised how to improve? If you're unilaterally opposed to unsolicited advice what you're telling me to do is kick anyone not performing well, I don't think that's what most people want.

[Lucy_Pyre]

Lol - dancer aoe on 2 is higher potency than single target. And aoe procs are higher potency than single target 1 2, and is only not worth using if you're about to lose your timer on a single target proc

and yes, obviously I know regen and holy are good abilities, but regen is not always the "best" heal. Why regen 3 when you can put up a medica. And no, if a healer doesn't want to spam the shit out of holy because they aren't comfortable, I will absolutely vote along side them to kick that spammer. And as I pointed out before, i'm of the opinion that if someone uses poor wording, it is also their responsibility and compounds the rudeness of their "advice"

No one gets comfortable doing something without doing it to reach comfort. If someone says they aren't going to DPS and heal as a healer because they aren't comfortable then I'm simply going to suggest to them that they can't get comfortable doing it without doing it. I would much rather wipe once because the healer is stepping out of their comfort zone and trying to improve than simply have an issue-less, slow run because the healer is being a healbot doing zero damage.

[Laesha]

No one gets comfortable doing something without doing it to reach comfort. If someone says they aren't going to DPS and heal as a healer because they aren't comfortable then I'm simply going to suggest to them that they can't get comfortable doing it without doing it. I would much rather wipe once because the healer is stepping out of their comfort zone and trying to improve than simply have an issue-less, slow run because the healer is being a healbot doing zero damage.

Which is fine for you I suppose. Their performance is not that important to me.