The tawdry female bosses are tiresome, and we could do with more male fanservice.

[Krotoan]

Eh? How so? not sure what me saying this has to do with my point being pointless. Lol.
All I said was masculine doesn't mean someone is a man. That doesn't invalidate my point sooo....?
Your reply to me was pointless.

You refuse to further discuss your point as you said we're getting off track.. so if elaborating your point isn't relevant, why bother?

Since you are ignoring what I'm saying and still forcing your points of view on me, even if I already stated that I never talked about how attractive a character is, I will say this: will be good for you to notice that you are the one stating that masculine females are less attractive because of pototo.

When Did I ever say that masculine females ARE less attractive, I asked why you thought it was a detriment. I can be big enough to say maybe that was taking your post in the wrong direction, however I'd also appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I am not ignoring what you said, I'm saying YOU originally cited a game as containing something which you now cannot find or cannot be bothered to find examples of.

Again.. what is the problem with having female characters with non-conventional attractive appearances. I am still waiting for your REASON for even griping about it.

[xxvaynxx]

You refuse to further discuss your point as you said we're getting off track.. so if elaborating your point isn't relevant, why bother?

Because their is nothing else to discuss? Just because I'm done with the debate doesn't mean my point now is invalid, just because I don't want to go back and forth.
Many Western Dev making their females intentionally less attractive is already a known thing to please the journalist since they mark down games score for having revealing females.

As seen with Mortal Kombat. The only big one I know about with actual proof they make the females not that good looking on purpose and dress them head to toe while the guys stay half naked with most their gear, they changed it though to make the females more attractive because people complained about it(the actual faces, not the outfits).
Like with cassie and sonya. Because Cassie at first, looked older than sonya who is her mother lol.

[Krotoan]

just because I don't want to go back and forth.

So you just want to talk AT people.. not with people.

Many Western Dev making their females intentionally less attractive is already a known thing to please the journalist since they mark down games score for having revealing females.

Just because you say something doesn't mean it is so.

As seen with Mortal Kombat. The only big one I know about with actual proof they make the females not that good looking on purpose and dress them head to toe while the guys stay half naked with most their gear, they changed it though to make the females more attractive because people complained about it(the actual faces, not the outfits).
Like with cassie and sonya. Because Cassie at first, looked older than sonya who is her mother lol.

I see a lot of rage but no "Proof". They seem to have listened when people complained and changed a couple characters but their original reason for making the characters less "attractive" was that it was more realistic. Not that they wanted them "ugly" just real. So what proof is there? They made them less comically exaggerated. True. They made them "ugly", .. personal preference.

[Eldevern]

The thing is we don't have the same aesthetic in western countries and in asia (Especially Japan, Taiwan and Korea).

Attractive men, if we consider K-Pop and J-pop singer, or mangas, will be often androgynous if not feminine. Back in my childhood, Saint Seiya male heroes were considered as effeminate. In many case, only bullies are depicted as manly/muscular based on western standard.

Consider Shibuya, do you imagine western men wearing make-up and flashy hair-cuts as you can see there?

In western countries, androgynous will rather be masculine, in many place in Asia, androgynous will be rather feminine. It is not only western countries will try to look more realistic, it is we don't share the same aesthetic standards.

Because of gender matters and politics in western countries, characters will be depicted a way we can consider as androgynous masculine or masculine. Designers will avoid to make a really feminine woman.

[Joven]

I see a lot of rage but no "Proof". They seem to have listened when people complained and changed a couple characters but their original reason for making the characters less "attractive" was that it was more realistic. Not that they wanted them "ugly" just real. So what proof is there? They made them less comically exaggerated. True. They made them "ugly", .. personal preference.

Just gonna say: when has Mortal Kombat ever been worried about being "realistic"?

Just kind of seems a bit convenient that MK has had the same characters, looking some variant of the same way for 28 years then suddenly after a certain YouTube con artist came around claiming that "everything is sexist, everything is racist and everthing is homophobic and we have to point it all out" that the characters now have to be more "realistic".

[xxvaynxx]

Just because you say something doesn't mean it is so.

Uhh... mass effect? They outright changed the female MC so she's not as attractive from the actual model they got her looks from.

I see a lot of rage but no "Proof". They seem to have listened when people complained and changed a couple characters but their original reason for making the characters less "attractive" was that it was more realistic. Not that they wanted them "ugly" just real. So what proof is there? They made them less comically exaggerated. True. They made them "ugly", .. personal preference.

Not sure where you're seeing rage but ok?
You do realize that's bs right? because if that was the case. Why are the males still not fully covered in armor like the females? why are they still comically exaggerated?. Don't read things at face value or do you believe everything a dev or PR tell you? They can't just say "oh yeah we changed the females from wearing what they use to because the SJW and the gaming journalist don't like it anymore" Its just PR talk to limit the backlash they would have gotten if they were truthful.

Mortal kombat is a game where you use magic powers and break bones and still keep going, you think them out of everybody would suddenly care about realism in females? no they just don't want to get bad press. Because in today standards those things don't fly in the US and that's a fact.

Also you keep saying ugly.
Not attractive doesn't mean ugly, you're just saying things to fit your agenda to further your argument. Please.

[gumas]

stuff like this sometime made me wonder why journalist on the west is so aggressive toward gaming (technically everything but we are talking about video game so i stick with that)

in japan (in asia in fact) i almost never hear this kind of talk at least not outright public, japan game dev like senran kagura can make their game as lewd as possible and not single journalist will outright say "this is absurd" or "this is downright offensive", and general response is pretty much... calm, yeah some people will say some stuff but usually will die down in day or two and... thats about it.

meanwhile on the west you create a game which does not have a person with color on it and they get attack from all direction.

culture difference is really scary sometimes

[Krotoan]

Just gonna say: when has Mortal Kombat ever been worried about being "realistic"?

Just kind of seems a bit convenient that MK has had the same characters, looking some variant of the same way for 28 years then suddenly after a certain YouTube con artist came around claiming that "everything is sexist, everything is racist and everthing is homophobic and we have to point it all out" that the characters now have to be more "realistic".

I have no idea which youtuber you're talking about. But yeah MK isn't really known for being realistic, sure. But this doesn't mean it can never be changed.

Uhh... mass effect? They outright changed the female MC so she's not as attractive from the actual model they got her looks from.

again do you have anything other than "they made her look different and people didn't think it was attractive"?

Not sure where you're seeing rage but ok?

Not you, all the articles I can find about this "proof" are just gamers raging because their favorite over made up and cleavage bearing character was covered up and changed.

You do realize that's bs right? because if that was the case. Why are the males still not fully covered in armor like the females? why are they still comically exaggerated?. Don't read things at face value or do you believe everything a dev or PR tell you? They can't just say "oh yeah we changed the females from wearing what they use to because the SJW and the gaming journalist don't like it anymore" Its just PR talk to limit the backlash they would have gotten if they were truthful.

Are they? Is a shirtless dood in a fight all that weird? If they never said it and it's all just gamer speculation and complaints it's hardly "proof". YES they look different. Sure that's provable. "ugly" again.. is subjective.

Mortal kombat is a game where you use magic powers and break bones and still keep going, you think them out of everybody would suddenly care about realism in females? no they just don't want to get bad press. Because in today standards those things don't fly in the US and that's a fact.

Also you keep saying ugly.
Not attractive doesn't mean ugly, you're just saying things to fit your agenda to further your argument. Please.

I'm saying ugly because that's what people in all the articles I was reading said. I also said "less attractive" what other synonyms would you like me to use?

[Eldevern]

In a survival game, we can't expect a girl or woman to be dressed as if she was going for a party XD

...

Rather than ugly? Trite? Banal? Mundane?

...

It is their culture. They will never be as harsh as western people can be. They consider it is unpolite and even contemptible.

[Joven]

I have no idea which youtuber you're talking about. But yeah MK isn't really known for being realistic, sure. But this doesn't mean it can never be changed.

Look up Anita Sarkeesian. She was a YouTuber with a channel called Tropes vs Women where she basically got paid a lot of money to make up BS about how every time a woman is featured in a video game it's to demean and shame them. She even managed to consult on games like Mirror's Edge 2 (the game sucked because they dumbed it down and it was broken. Which is sad because I liked the first one) and Mass Effect Andromeda (which had a whole bevvy of issues). I even heard she had a small hand in the Last of Us 2 (though unsubstantiated). She accrued a lot of money and then just disappeared like a fart in a whirlwind.