1 tier old savage content (E4S) requires no healer. SE needs to address

[Shougun]

It's more that SMN is incredibly versatile, while not being subject to the same drawbacks that other jobs receive for their versatility. RDM's 'raise tax' for example.

I feel that's a good thing, that it's very versatile- whether other jobs can use some tweaks is another issue but I'm glad Summoner is being seen as great versatility. Pretty happy they keep trying to give SMN things to make things stand out (the regen on phoenix for example). Said it before in other threads, and of course I might have some 'pipe dream' ideal of what SMN could be, but I'm glad they've kept working on SMN towards this direction (which necessitates some versatility due to each primal being not the same). That isn't to say people can't try to suggest improvements, just think they're trying and I notice that. Words of encouragement I suppose, 'fighting'.

If other jobs need buffs, then sure for them- just hope people don't clip SMN's wings in the process of pointing out it soaring .

meanwhile alot of people will still swear upon that titan is useless and should be removed. lol

I think it's just the vibe is a bit off- when you compare it tanking before (a vibe in comparison), but the shield isn't useless. Maybe a bit difficult to weave in on the fly without forethought but some of that might just be some necessary cost to versatility- like I suggest a transformation based job which would be ideally very versatile but the edge to that is they don't have access to every single versatility at one time.

Personally think it might feel cool if titan has a very small pool of hp when summoned that regens out of combat, and increases past that max during combat based on damage done (such that Titan's aoe move could be a decent hp generater, when in a group of monsters), anything over max would slowly decay of course. Now when you take damage and titan has hp he will take that for you, like a sort of cover, might even show a subtle rock shield effect, at least in combat, when this effect is present.

Funnily having it be simply a buff on yourself shows the shield amount so people might be able to anticipate the protection better by it being self cast (info is simplified by having it just be a buff), I just think in comparison to before where he tanked for you now it feels a little bit off like he doesn't tank at all and just acts as sort of stoneskin buffer like you might see him closer to a white mage than a tanker. So changing some of that into a passive tanking (the small pool/some of his damage turning into hp), and then representing it on his own health bar, might return him to feeling like he's the tank. It's not needed but just feel that's part of where he feels off, no longer feels like a tank and is more of a buffer- but he still has some use cases. Of course if you add a passive element you'll have to tweak the active stoneskin spell, maybe something like restores titan's hp, and something like either temporarily doubles it, or temporarily increases the amount of hp titan gains from doing damage (so you could build the shield up manually).

[GeraldineKerla]

SMN is definitely OP.
It has a party regen better than DNC's curing waltz, a party damage buff better than RDM, a personal shield as good as manaward, and the DPS capabilities of a BLM.

Their regen is dependent on summoning firebird which if you want to time it to properly heal, is a large dps loss.
Their party buff has a longer CD than RDM.
Their personal shield requires them to lose a decent amount of dps as they have to summon a worse egi then resummon the better one, whereas BLM can just press Manaward.

They're definitely the strongest class right now, but only because their DPS is too high for a class with significant raising capabilities, and they can do it while being absurdly mobile.
I don't think its the regens, the party buff, or the worst personal shield in the game that makes it OP. They can pull off cheese like this but that's not something worth balancing a class around.

[HeulGDarian]

snip).

That sounds fun. I imagine a case were as long as you have titan anything that would dmg or target you would instead dmg and target him effectively having a shield but it would at least give titan a feel of existing.

[ForteNightshade]

You're joking, right? There is a reason SMN wasn't the top of all fights last tier pre-nerfs. Current fight design heavily favor's SMN due to how much downtime there is and when it comes up. Very few other jobs benefit as heavily from being able to essentially skip their entire low-damage filler phase. This is why it is not top on Ramuh and is consistently edged out by SAM and BLM: no downtime. It's not the top DPS outside of its ideal conditions: heavy downtime and multiple targets. Again, thankfully Square consistently uses real data over someone who goes to FFLog's statistics page and calls it a day.

In addition, it's aDPS metric and its pure personal DPS isn't the best. Devotion adds a good 600+ in good groups. Stop looking at the end result and start looking towards how it's achieved and you'll realize how unbelievably silly it is to call the class overpowered.

It's honestly incredible. "Play what you want, everything's viable and the game's really balanced" or "so and so is overpowered in content I've never done." Wish the crowd would pick a side. The only real balance issue right now is that both BRD and MCH are entirely useless in high-end speed kills and are lackluster everywhere else if you're not talented at the job. They need to be brought up because the global damage reduction and the free movement aren't justification enough to tax them as hard as they have been.

Yes it was. Unless you're going to tell me in just the last few weeks Summoner dwarfed all its competition in E1S. Regardless, even in the few fights where it isn't ahead, it just barely lags behind the two selfish DPS with zero utility. That should not happen. Samurai literally needs a fully uptime fight like E2S to compete with a job that has near free mobility, raise and Devotion. You can claim Devotion may be weak but Embolden and Vercure/Raise hold Red Mage back yet not Summoner.

As for Square having their internal data. You mean said data which led to Red Mage, Black Mage, Samurai, Dark Knight, White Mage and Monk all receiving buffs through Stormblood after the community told them for months they were needed. Red Mage was cited as desperately needing a buff yet the dev team insisted Verraise was too valuable. Lo and behold nearly a year later... they buff it. Ironically, the same thing happened again this expansion. I don't deny Square has their own data but more often than not when the community as a whole cites jobs being too under/overpowerd, said jobs inevitably receive adjustments. That isn't a coincidence.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

its old so who cares?

[Deceptus]

its old so who cares?

Because it's in the current expansion. It would make sense if it was last expansion.

[EaMett]

Also there is content that requires more healing. It's called ultimate and nobody runs it.

Healers really just need downtime options. The encounter design isn't going to change at this point. It should be obvious to everyone.

[Razard]

A couple of threads down:

Sillyopinons:

"WhY R ALl dA ClaSSeS Da SaME aN HomOGenIzeD Doe?"

This, dear Sillyopinions.. Threads like this . When a group decides to do something out of the ordinary a certain kabal of people retire to the fainting couches to opine that a certain class/ role/ system/ content/ the entire goddamn game is dead and needs to be fixed RIGHT NOW. Or, I dunno, they'll faint even harder i guess.

Remember kids, if you have something special that makes you unique. Don't. Be just like everyone else so the Number Queens don't get offended by your joke runs.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

A couple of threads down:

Sillyopinons:

"WhY R ALl dA ClaSSeS Da SaME aN HomOGenIzeD Doe?"

This, dear Sillyopinions.. Threads like this . When a group decides to do something out of the ordinary a certain kabal of people retire to the fainting couches to opine that a certain class/ role/ system/ content/ the entire goddamn game is dead and needs to be fixed RIGHT NOW. Or, I dunno, they'll faint even harder i guess.

Remember kids, if you have something special that makes you unique. Don't. Be just like everyone else so the Number Queens don't get offended by your joke runs.

The problem here is that no other jobs have a "special thing only they can do" in recent savage content.


You cant do this with no healers and 5 Sam's, blms, drgs, etc.

[MariaArvana]

E6S has a total of 31 seconds of downtime and 1 instance where you may dot 2 bosses. No surprise it's on top.

Minor nitpick, but you can only multi-dot for all of about 1 GCD before hated of the Vortex/hated of the Inferno prevents you from ever damaging the other one till the phase ends. So at best, you could get a tri disaster off on the other target (and lose the ruination buff on the one you'd be attacking, making it an even smaller dps gain), but you aren't able to painflare/Ahk Morn/Death Flare/Revelation/multidot past the first tri-disaster 2 targets due to the debuffs. Outside of that one 2s window, the fight is effectively a 1-target boss.

The high movement of the fight's mechanics alongside forced disconnects by garuda's AOEs & hand of hell for melee lends itself more to SMN being on top that fight than anything.