"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

[Gula]

Shucks. All the pages of complaining from the last thread will have to be repeated in this one because mods couldn't handle the flood of reports due to (and my point still stands from the last one) everyone being on the same page of:

[Goji1639]

That other thread got deleted, eh? I could probably guess who it was that went running to the mods, but no matter.

It's kind of weird how the most casual of the mainstream MMO's has the community that gets the most bent up over casual play. I mean, in most content groups never wipe, so I guess if you want to complain your only option is to get angry when a dungeon that could potentially take 15 minutes ends up taking 20.

[Lucy_Pyre]

The Blackest Night is a mitigation action. Thats literally all it does.

Incorrect. TBN is a shield that consumes the same resource that the DRK uses for Edge/Flood of Shadow. At the same time, when properly used (i.e. when it breaks) it grants a Dark Arts proc which allows the DRK to use a single Edge/Flood of Shadow with no mana cost. This makes a properly used TBN a DPS-neutral ability. However, when used incorrectly (i.e. when it doesn't break) it is a DPS loss because you lose out on a cast of Edge/Flood; a direct loss of 500p (or 300p x number of enemies). Unfortunately for you, damage is king in XIV. This means that you don't get to just say that TBN is 'always' correctly used so long as it mitigates damage, and that's simply not how the skill is designed in the first place. Please learn how to properly make use of the job's toolkit before commenting on it.

[Bopsheezi]

Incorrect. TBN is a shield that consumes the same resource that the DRK uses for Edge/Flood of Shadow. At the same time, when properly used (i.e. when it breaks) it grants a Dark Arts proc which allows the DRK to use a single Edge/Flood of Shadow with no mana cost. This makes a properly used TBN a DPS-neutral ability. However, when used incorrectly (i.e. when it doesn't break) it is a DPS loss because you lose out on a cast of Edge/Flood; a direct loss of 500p (or 300p x number of enemies). Unfortunately for you, damage is king in XIV. This means that you don't get to just say that TBN is 'always' correctly used so long as it mitigates damage, and that's simply not how the skill is designed in the first place. Please learn how to properly make use of the job's toolkit before commenting on it.

This makes it sound like there is no reason to use TBN unless not using it would result in your death, as a healer could just oGCD the damage while you Edge/Flood, instead of the damage being mitigated.

[Lucy_Pyre]

This makes it sound like there is no reason to use TBN unless not using it would result in your death, as a healer could just oGCD the damage while you Edge/Flood, instead of the damage being mitigated.

Unless you would otherwise die then there IS no reason to use TBN unless it will get broken.

[Bopsheezi]

Unless you would otherwise die then there IS no reason to use TBN unless it will get broken.

But even if it would break, wouldn't it theoretically be better for damage to just use Edge/Flood up front?

Say you use TBN, and it breaks 2 GCDs after. Now you can use the free Edge after those GCDs. However, if you just use Edge when you would have used TBN, you get that Edge before the GCDs, possibly shortening the fight a GCD or two?

In both situations, you don't die, from mitigation in the first, and a healer oGCD in the second, but couldn't the fight end a bit faster theoretically in the second?

[LittleImp]

This makes it sound like there is no reason to use TBN unless not using it would result in your death, as a healer could just oGCD the damage while you Edge/Flood, instead of the damage being mitigated.

Good mitigation is a key part of what makes only using oGCDs viable. TBN also has circumstances under which it's a DPS positive, as you can use it under certain circumstances to buffer an additional edge/flood into a party buff window.

[Goji1639]

This makes it sound like there is no reason to use TBN unless not using it would result in your death, as a healer could just oGCD the damage while you Edge/Flood, instead of the damage being mitigated.

Using TBN in a situation where you know it would break essentially makes it free, so it'll spare the healer from needing to oGCD you. So, basically if you know TBN will break there's never a reason not to use it.

It's obviously not pointless if it doesn't break, though, it's just not optimal. Mitigating some damage always serves a purpose. You sacrifice some of your own potency, sure, but it allows the healer to focus on other things; like maybe keeping a DPS who's constantly eating avoidable damage alive.

But even if it would break, wouldn't it theoretically be better for damage to just use Edge/Flood up front?

Say you use TBN, and it breaks 2 GCDs after. Now you can use the free Edge after those GCDs. However, if you just use Edge when you would have used TBN, you get that Edge before the GCDs, possibly shortening the fight a GCD or two?

In both situations, you don't die, from mitigation in the first, and a healer oGCD in the second, but couldn't the fight end a bit faster theoretically in the second?

The fact that you have to be constantly sitting on 3000MP instead of using it because of TBN is an upfront DPS loss, but that's not avoidable. The cost to the group if you don't always have resources earmarked for TBN is greater than the cost to your personal DPS.

I guess if the healer is good enough to keep you, and everyone else, alive with oGCD heals when you're not using TBN at all, then there's no reason for you to ever use TBN. If the healer is forced to hardcast or GCD any heal to keep you alive because you aren't using TBN, however, then it's costing the healer some damage potency each time.

[Lucy_Pyre]

But even if it would break, wouldn't it theoretically be better for damage to just use Edge/Flood up front?

Say you use TBN, and it breaks 2 GCDs after. Now you can use the free Edge after those GCDs. However, if you just use Edge when you would have used TBN, you get that Edge before the GCDs, possibly shortening the fight a GCD or two?

In both situations, you don't die, from mitigation in the first, and a healer oGCD in the second, but couldn't the fight end a bit faster theoretically in the second?

No, it wouldn't. Because with a Dark Arts proc you can 'store' a use of Edge/Flood. You can then get back to very nearly max mana in your 60s downtime in between Blood Weapon uses. Then, when Blood Weapon comes back up (along with 2 minute raid buffs with it), you have just shy of a max mana pool as well as an extra use of Edge due to Dark Arts. This allows you to dump both DA and your mana for, if my memory is correct, 5 Edge uses under raid buffs: thus being a DPS gain.

[TheRealQuah]

If TBN doesn't break then you didn't need to use it. If it was supposed to be used as mitigation only then it wouldn't have the extra effect. It's good to use sometimes if you know it will break so you can "bank" a free Edge/Flood to save for buff windows.