I think Square Enix's next MMO should be set back in Ivalice.

[MirronTulaxia]

It's not the best or most constructive term to use to describe what is going on in the world at present, perhaps, though I'd be baffled if someone were to claim that there hasn't been an active effort to censor quite a bit of things related to games not because they need to be censored but because of some very bitter individuals on social media deliberately going out of their way to petition for things that they dislike to be 'canceled' or censored. So, if we're talking about having discussions in good faith then I'd be very curious to see that particular point addressed.

Censorship is a necessity to a degree, though it is a very fine line as to where that 'degree' stands. Nobody expects FFXIV to, for example, display extremely graphic blood and gore. That wouldn't be a reasonable expectation - but when people start asking for things to be adjusted in case it might 'offend' someone, then that leads to a very slippery slope. Such movements don't typically stop at book-burning and the digital equivalent, after all.

That’s simply capitalism at work. There is demand, companies respond to it. There isn’t anyone holding a gun to the developers head and telling them to do something. The entire concept of “cancel culture” and “SJW” are just people whining like babies because they can’t act like gross individuals without someone pointing it out. Your actions have consequences, learn to act like a proper adult and you stop running into issues.

[Theodric]

Well, I hoped for an engaging discussion but I'm not the sort of guy to support victim blaming. We'll just have to agree to disagree, I suppose.

[MirronTulaxia]

Not victim blaming nor agreeing to disagree. If you aren’t willing to defend your stance you shouldn’t put it forward. The kind of “censorship” people talk about is not having scantily clad girls, treating that as equivalent of book burning is absurd.

[Theodric]

That wasn't what the content of my previous post entailed, but again - I think it is best to agree to disagree. For one thing, I'm a gay guy - so the common counterpoint of claiming that concerns about video-game censorship relate to scantily clad women simply doesn't work on me as it's not at all applicable. Then again, I didn't bring up scantily clad women in the first place so I'm definitely raising an eyebrow at them suddenly being brought up in the context of discussion.

Defending my point would require two things - my previous post to actually be read and for a measure of good faith to be involved in the discussion.

[EirolOcarrol]

.. How did we get on to this topic?

[MirronTulaxia]

That wasn't what the content of my previous post entailed, but again - I think it is best to agree to disagree. For one thing, I'm a gay guy - so the common counterpoint of claiming that concerns about video-game censorship relate to scantily clad women simply doesn't work on me as it's not at all applicable. Then again, I didn't bring up scantily clad women in the first place so I'm definitely raising an eyebrow at them suddenly being brought up in the context of discussion.

Defending my point would require two things - my previous post to actually be read and for a measure of good faith to be involved in the discussion.

And I'm gay too, irrelevant points are irrelevant. When people bring up "scary SJW and the evil they commit" they almost inevitably are upset about sexist, racist, or otherwise bigoted content being excised. As well I read your point, it isn't radically different from the countless other times that I see people getting defensive over "censorship". Corporations are not victims, but apparently pointing out they have all the power in any relationship is "victim blaming". Sheesh, it's just lauaghable.

I'm also not going to agree to disagree, this isn't a subject like "does chocolate taste good" where agreeing to disagree is a reasonable stance. This, again, is about at the very best a rather absurd misunderstanding of power dynamics going on, how freedom of speech works, and a number of other related subjects. But more realistically is an instance of victim blaming, as most often the people speaking out and encouraging the "censorship" are themselves victims from matters related to it.

[RareItems]

SE's next MMO should be Rated M so they don't have to hold back on things :3

[RagingStallion]

And I'm gay too, irrelevant points are irrelevant. When people bring up "scary SJW and the evil they commit" they almost inevitably are upset about sexist, racist, or otherwise bigoted content being excised. As well I read your point, it isn't radically different from the countless other times that I see people getting defensive over "censorship". Corporations are not victims, but apparently pointing out they have all the power in any relationship is "victim blaming". Sheesh, it's just lauaghable.

I'm also not going to agree to disagree, this isn't a subject like "does chocolate taste good" where agreeing to disagree is a reasonable stance. This, again, is about at the very best a rather absurd misunderstanding of power dynamics going on, how freedom of speech works, and a number of other related subjects. But more realistically is an instance of victim blaming, as most often the people speaking out and encouraging the "censorship" are themselves victims from matters related to it.

Very alarmed that we're defending SJWs in this age when they destroyed precious gems like The Last of Us 2. Let's not forget that they also tried to destroy FF14 (Alphinaud anyone?) but thankfully Yoshi P kept them at bay as the Japanese do not fall into that trap since their culture is more advanced.

[TeraRamis]

I, personally, am very lethargic of the themepark formula. It would be very nice to see a sandbox MMORPG with the polish of Final Fantasy. I supported the idea of Final Fantasy XIV becoming more like EVE Online in the 1.0 days. But was rebuffed by many in the community saying that EVE was too niche.

I'm pretty sure you can't be "lethargic of" something.

Having said that: I agree with your overall point - theme park MMORPGs are stale; so stale that I believe they are actually the root cause in the decline of the genre. Somewhere along the way, the development teams behind AAA MMORPG titles forgot why people were playing these games: it wasn't to be the hero, it was to live a second life in a world where you could be the hero. Or you could own a shop... or a bar... or you could be a just-passable weaponsmith. The excitement inherent in MMOs is a) being present in a fantastical setting, and b) having all doors open. When a game holds a player's hand, heaping praise onto them at every turn, throwing up roadblocks time and again that prevent exploration, cooperation, creativity, etc., and when it shields the playerbase from even the smallest trace of potential harm (Ul'dah is a fortress city; Ul'dah will never be attacked, and even if it was, it would be in the midst of a highly-scripted, closed event that wouldn't affect anyone loitering semi-AFK in town) it actually undermines the root objective: being part of an alternate, fantasy reality where every day promises a new adventure.

I'm not saying pure sandboxes are the way to go - they get boring, and there is typically too much room for various forms of griefing (everything from the 'I loot your corpse and take every item you own' dead horse, to some jerk erecting a new house in your character's front yard) - but the pure themepark is no less stupid. And please don't tell me that you're playing FFXIV for the awesome story - the story is crap. The story is bad fanfiction-level garbage that occasionally stumbles onto a rare gem of a character, but is otherwise a monotonous series of fetch quests and kill tallies sold to us via olde English-speaking NPC questgivers.

We deserve better than this. Yeah, FFXIV is getting on and obviously isn't the vehicle of the future. But if the sequel is wired the same way? I'm not even downloading a trial.

[Shougun]

True innovation will require a company to take some risks and get it right. The risk is high and the potential loss in profit is probably too great so I don't see that happening for awhile.

I think there is a lot of stuff they can try, but personally would still like it to be theme-park or at least heavily influenced by those concepts.

I'd love to see them try an open world (if they can also decorate it to their standards), bring back airships and chocobos in a serious way, nice homestead system, even consider perhaps having some old meets new school of jobs such that their job fantasy is heavily present (heavy focus on job fantasy role play and how that might be represented in spells and mechanics, making sure to also do things like WoW has slowfall on mages or scout on warlock because it fits the fantasy and not because it's needed in raid, so like dragoons jumping higher or not taking fall damage, summoners doing pilgrimages to obtain many summons, etc, etc)- if there are balance concerns could even have the 'main' very fantasy played out part of the job for MSQ / casual and then the heavily balanced form for pvp and ultimate/savage. Would also love to see a heavy emphasis on exploration, encouraging and rewarding players to wander everywhere.

Yet I still have no interest to play a game where I've to shout in chat to get a party, give me DF or I'm not even slightly interested. So done with that part of old school content lol, that part of me died in FFXI and early FFXIV 1.0. So I'm sure they could mix up a lot of things, but at the same time I don't really have any interest in hardcore sandbox or anything. I appreciate the QoL and ability to experience most of the game at my own pace that themeparks bring.