Will Final Fantasy ever make a "Dark Side"?

[Lium]

Historically, even when the franchise allows you to play "dark" jobs, "dark" means literal dark and not morally dark. As in, use the powers of shadow or the Crystals of Darkness to perform acts of good.

I’ve heard this might be a cultural thing. In Japan they are very much into heroic good vanquishing evil. Especially in fantasy.

But please correct me if I’m wrong.

[gumas]

I’ve heard this might be a cultural thing. In Japan they are very much into heroic good vanquishing evil. Especially in fantasy.

But please correct me if I’m wrong.

japan back in the old days love good heroic story, its why dragon quest was so big at that time, and now it branches to similar setting but with some twist and there, like MC is weakling, MC is silent protag, MC is pervert, etc

but the one that really hit the stride of popularity in these day is MC use dark power to do good, japan youngster eat this like pancake, MC use dark/evil power but actually still on the side of good (and some with extra stuff like MC is on edgy side or a total chuuni vibe)

and this is why japan has different take of "dark" power, when we talk dark power/class, we think an evil person who do evil deed and stuff. for japan "dark" power/class is just the power come from dark/evil aspect but the user is still on good side

even when they try to make the protag evil, they still need to pander it toward good, overlord anime is prime example for this. japan just love this kind of stuff this day.

[Mindiori]

We have a substantially different way of viewing good and evil, which in Asia is grounded in history now long gone. Much as is the case in the west and a more common Judeo-Christian viewpoint. Sometimes it's effects are subtle; we can all appreciate a 'jerk' amongst the laughter, regardless of where we are from after all. In others though, its far more thematically obvious. Japan commonly adheres to a pre-modern take on the origin of evil in its storytelling; and thus how its taken into your heart/why you are ''dark'' is fairly different. So then, that ''grey'' area of working together, will never be as frustrating as it understandably is for western audiences. Being 50/50 ethnically speaking, I find the differences between the views really interesting. I personally find merit in both!

Wish it was possible. I dislike the way I get options but Alphinaud basically chooses which answers I can say

The redundancy of the dialogue options always bothered me. Quite the strange system. Do you like to eat? Answer; Hell yes, Does Kan-E-Senna live in the forest!?, I am hungry, lets eat now? Lol. Even the rare ''no'' is an excuse for Alphi telling you 'hurr durr, you meant yes bro' haha.

Love you Jinny <3

[LineageRazor]

even when they try to make the protag evil, they still need to pander it toward good, overlord anime is prime example for this. japan just love this kind of stuff this day.

Totally this. The poster child for "chunnibyo" (a young teenager who escapes the bleak drugery of reality by imagining him or herself having powers and being special) is a kid in a trenchcoat and possessing powerful magical abilities that cause society to shun them. This individual behaves in selfish ways, is prone to bouts of evil laughter and gloating over fallen foes - and yet, always seems to wind up directing their "evilness" against assholes who richy deserve it.

Essentially, they emulate fictional villains (who are typically powerful, aggressive, stylish, self-confident, and good looking - all things young nerds wish they could be but usually aren't), but can't really stomach the idea of actually doing evil things. Japanese stories cater toward this fantasy, and cater HARD.

Generally, when it comes to mainstream games, only Western games go that extra mile to allow players to do ACTUAL evil things, and truly make the protagonist into a real villain. (And, in my opinion, when they do, they generally don't do it consitently or well. :P)

Back to the original post - will this game ever add such an option. Almost certainly not. The amount of effort it would take to add an opposed faction (whether this faction is actually "evil" or just opposed to the current faction for other reasons) when the game wasn't built for that to begin with would be phenominal. Like, almost doubling the content of the game. At least, if players were to be given the option of joining this faction from the start. More reasonable would be to split off a faction later on - like, everyone follows the main story through Shadowbringers, and at the start of the next expansion are given the option to choose to join a new faction that emerges as part of the storyline. I see even this as being extremely unlikely, however, and if it DOES happen, the likelihood of your character actually becoming EVIL after such a long history of do-gooding as being next to non-existent. Neither you, nor the new faction, will be evil - just opposed, for whatever reason.

[Controller]

Totally this. The poster child for "chunnibyo" (a young teenager who escapes the bleak drugery of reality by imagining him or herself having powers and being special) is a kid in a trenchcoat and possessing powerful magical abilities that cause society to shun them. This individual behaves in selfish ways, is prone to bouts of evil laughter and gloating over fallen foes - and yet, always seems to wind up directing their "evilness" against assholes who richy deserve it.

Essentially, they emulate fictional villains (who are typically powerful, aggressive, stylish, self-confident, and good looking - all things young nerds wish they could be but usually aren't), but can't really stomach the idea of actually doing evil things. Japanese stories cater toward this fantasy, and cater HARD.

Generally, when it comes to mainstream games, only Western games go that extra mile to allow players to do ACTUAL evil things, and truly make the protagonist into a real villain. (And, in my opinion, when they do, they generally don't do it consitently or well. :P)

Back to the original post - will this game ever add such an option. Almost certainly not. The amount of effort it would take to add an opposed faction (whether this faction is actually "evil" or just opposed to the current faction for other reasons) when the game wasn't built for that to begin with would be phenominal. Like, almost doubling the content of the game. At least, if players were to be given the option of joining this faction from the start. More reasonable would be to split off a faction later on - like, everyone follows the main story through Shadowbringers, and at the start of the next expansion are given the option to choose to join a new faction that emerges as part of the storyline. I see even this as being extremely unlikely, however, and if it DOES happen, the likelihood of your character actually becoming EVIL after such a long history of do-gooding as being next to non-existent. Neither you, nor the new faction, will be evil - just opposed, for whatever reason.

They won't even do THAT. These games - Final Fantasy - games were never about you controlling the villain or freedom of choice. They are all railroad one path tracks to whatever ending SE has prerendered in pure awesomeness. So in other words... this option will never be an option for XIV or any FF mmo.

[Iscah]

They won't even do THAT. These games - Final Fantasy - games were never about you controlling the villain or freedom of choice. They are all railroad one path tracks to whatever ending SE has prerendered in pure awesomeness. So in other words... this option will never be an option for XIV or any FF mmo.

And that isn't a bad thing.

Games are entertainment and different people are entertained by different things. Not everyone needs or wants a "dark edgy side" to their protagonists to make the story worthwhile and enjoyable.

[Theodric]

The writers have made it clear that 'good' and 'evil' are ultimately a matter of perspective for the majority of factions and characters in the game, anyway. Only Zenos stands out as lacking any sympathetic qualities whatsoever.

I'm sure that if the MSQ's allowed for a bit more freedom and player choice that it'd go down very well. Especially if it were optional. A handful of Final Fantasy games have allowed for antagonists to be playable at certain points and they often have a number of sympathetic antagonists/friendly rivals who end up surviving the game's events and rising to great heights when it comes to popularity.

FFXIV would do well to introduce more characters along the lines of Rufus Shinra and The Turks from FF7R or General Beatrix from FFIX. It'd help balance out the bland, one note characters like Alisae which is an added bonus!

[Iscah]

This last patch was really bad for dialogue options in general. It was basically:

1. I will do anything for the greater good!
2. My heart breaks that I cannot do more!
3. What are we waiting for? Let’s go now!

I was sitting there like, oh please.

The responses boil down to railroading of course - if not by your choice then by the person you're talking to - but it still feels like "giving the character a voice". Right there on the screen, your character actually said a thing instead of smiling and nodding, or mime-talking without subtitles. You choose to make them excited or hesitant or sarcastic.

This is especially important at key story points, like at the end of Shadowbringers. The dialogue options are barely options - there's one thing you clearly should say, and the others are just there for padding and people who didn't do the should-be-prerequisite quests so it can be presented in a "select dialogue" menu.

[Lauront]

Totally this. The poster child for "chunnibyo" (a young teenager who escapes the bleak drugery of reality by imagining him or herself having powers and being special) is a kid in a trenchcoat and possessing powerful magical abilities that cause society to shun them. This individual behaves in selfish ways, is prone to bouts of evil laughter and gloating over fallen foes - and yet, always seems to wind up directing their "evilness" against assholes who richy deserve it.

Essentially, they emulate fictional villains (who are typically powerful, aggressive, stylish, self-confident, and good looking - all things young nerds wish they could be but usually aren't), but can't really stomach the idea of actually doing evil things. Japanese stories cater toward this fantasy, and cater HARD.

Generally, when it comes to mainstream games, only Western games go that extra mile to allow players to do ACTUAL evil things, and truly make the protagonist into a real villain. (And, in my opinion, when they do, they generally don't do it consitently or well. :P)

Back to the original post - will this game ever add such an option. Almost certainly not. The amount of effort it would take to add an opposed faction (whether this faction is actually "evil" or just opposed to the current faction for other reasons) when the game wasn't built for that to begin with would be phenominal. Like, almost doubling the content of the game. At least, if players were to be given the option of joining this faction from the start. More reasonable would be to split off a faction later on - like, everyone follows the main story through Shadowbringers, and at the start of the next expansion are given the option to choose to join a new faction that emerges as part of the storyline. I see even this as being extremely unlikely, however, and if it DOES happen, the likelihood of your character actually becoming EVIL after such a long history of do-gooding as being next to non-existent. Neither you, nor the new faction, will be evil - just opposed, for whatever reason.

I only see it as unlikely (sadly) because of where the game is in its lifecycle - I do hope, if/when designing a future MMO, they take into account the possibility of introducing this from the ground up. I really like these kind of choices in RPGs.

It's difficult to put in a genuinely "evil" faction into a game, but WAR and SWTOR both did something like that, depending on how you parse the chaos faction, or the Sith code of ethics; certainly they're anathema to most western ethical systems. Unfortunately, those MMOs are/were plagued by other issues that make/made them unappealing compared to the likes of FFXIV. A shame, because they could have been interesting in the hands of a better developer.

That said, I don't think a FF game would need to go that far, but certainly the option to embrace darkness would be nice. It's not like the light-aligned heroes aren't pandering to a similar image many "young nerds" wish they could be.

The writers have made it clear that 'good' and 'evil' are ultimately a matter of perspective for the majority of factions and characters in the game, anyway. Only Zenos stands out as lacking any sympathetic qualities whatsoever.

I'm sure that if the MSQ's allowed for a bit more freedom and player choice that it'd go down very well. Especially if it were optional. A handful of Final Fantasy games have allowed for antagonists to be playable at certain points and they often have a number of sympathetic antagonists/friendly rivals who end up surviving the game's events and rising to great heights when it comes to popularity.

FFXIV would do well to introduce more characters along the lines of Rufus Shinra and The Turks from FF7R or General Beatrix from FFIX. It'd help balance out the bland, one note characters like Alisae which is an added bonus!

Agreed. That'd also be welcome, too.

[Shougun]

The writers have made it clear that 'good' and 'evil' are ultimately a matter of perspective for the majority of factions and characters in the game, anyway. Only Zenos stands out as lacking any sympathetic qualities whatsoever.

I'm sure that if the MSQ's allowed for a bit more freedom and player choice that it'd go down very well. Especially if it were optional. A handful of Final Fantasy games have allowed for antagonists to be playable at certain points and they often have a number of sympathetic antagonists/friendly rivals who end up surviving the game's events and rising to great heights when it comes to popularity.

FFXIV would do well to introduce more characters along the lines of Rufus Shinra and The Turks from FF7R or General Beatrix from FFIX. It'd help balance out the bland, one note characters like Alisae which is an added bonus!

I would love to be able to play as one of the other side characters through the role play system, I think there are a lot of interesting stories to tell that way. Thought it could be particularly interesting both gameplay wise and for the story if we could play as an Ascian, could be present day or even in the past . . :3. Extra fun if they somehow gave players the opportunity to play as a true form lol. Of course besides the leaders of the military being potential options can also go to a smaller scale to show the perspective of just a normal person, how they feel and view everything, as well as remind people they're also human.

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Or might allow us a more sympathetic perspective onto Zenos than the one we currently have which is "bad guy, because I'm just bad to the bone, I've no redeeming qualities so far". Could do something like as you play Zenos in the past, during some sort of death march mission with his men falling all around and his strength waning (you fighting as Zenos in segments between scenes), the world seems a bit off, little dark strands of aether creeping onto the screen occasionally, and as you're more and more alone fighting as a pincushion full of arrows the whispers start. Fracture in reality opens up beckoning him to reach out and with that he'll have the might to punish his enemies- reaching out only shortly before having a second thought to stand again. Those he trained with all dead around him, enemies closing in, he was going to make it his last stand- besides they sent him on this death march anyways so he might as well do it proper. After a few more kills with very weak swings he falls again, seeing the faces of his soldiers, bodies mangled, he begins to cry and try to get up again, but is too weak to lift himself up, this time the fracture opening up inches away and even reaching out pulling him to touch it (literally magically pulling him), but before the dark crystal forces him to connect a holy hand clasps onto his and lifts him up (healing him).

The scene is quickly interrupted as he is assaulted again, and after cleaning out a few more enemies they retreat at the unkillable unstoppable warrior- the holy figure no where to be seen. A short scene of the void closing, with a tiny dark sliver of crystal, like a thin needle, is left behind - the blood from enemies and allies tracing it's way cross the ground to gently lift and bob it onto the surface. As he returns his 'breeders' are furious as all he had to do was reach out in a near death state (hence why they don't just try to kill him via torture, as the scenario would lead to just 'kill me' and he'd not reach out, may also suggest they tried that before already and it didn't work)- failing what he was bred for and finding out the reason why the planned didn't work they begin work to magically break his attunements to the elements (like shattering a soul) such that contact from hydaelyn is damaging and impossible to be helpful any more (nearing a sort of lich / zombification process, but for the soul specifically). Some scenes shouldn't include the father, some should, he's a terrible dad, but he wants his son to be a god and use that power to defend their people, he believes the will of his son great enough for a star and raised him to be that ironbull of a star, not because he enjoys watching his son in pain (believes his son strong, the strongest, and seeing him pain is a disappointment, not an enjoyment, because of his distorted and perverted faith and belief of what his son will accomplish through strength of body, will, and mind). Later in an experiment using the dark needle, soaked in his soldier's blood (from the battlefield), to pierce his third eye and permanently haunting him emotionally, physically, and metaphysically- forever throwing him out of balance and in their hope making the connection a possibility again as he's put closer than ever before to zodiark's alter. (many other events to be included- a life long process from childhood, not just these few to make him as he is, this was just a vague for fun-zy sketch).

In this way his only joy becomes being able to add dismay to the faces that attempted and failed to make him to their will, that he seeks out every challenger, seeking out strength to be able to do so, he's never going to reach out so pitifully for help again, especially to that which keeps asking for his help. Might is right, and weakness is to be abandoned- there is no other purpose to life. Maybe that might be a fun way to introduce Zenos was bred to be a potential vessel for Zodiark or something, his humanity be damned, the reason why he is so broken and yet so skilled, a sort of serious Joker- broken to the core. There is no way to redeem him, just a lesson on what can make a monster. Unfortunately due to Zeno's might make right perspective he may one day willingly come to Zodiark, not to be a vessel, but in attempt to champion Zodiark to his will. . which will be a mistake.

I'd like to note that I hope that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are not going to end up being pure evil and pure good but like each one embodies a type of living and their behavior is more like very very advanced programming- since they are primals anyways. Like Zodiark would ensure peace, but at the cost of freedom- organization and unity at all costs, while Hydaelyn defends freedom even if it has the cost of peace- neither going about to cause harm because it's fun - might look at it like the god that intervenes and regularly shows up (Zodiark) vs the god that prefers to go as hands off as possible and let their children live as they will (Hydaelyn), which might also be able to make allusions to templars vs assasins in their ideal forms.
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If they really wanted to they might even be able to have sort of story boosted characters, past the point where it's no longer really weird, that you could play as a the 'other side' as main character too- say like how WoW is now letting players start from a specific expansion with their new level squish and then go right into the new expansion. Using MSQ+ to do old content could be a bit weird though XD- never take off your headgear.... haha..

Just think that if they wanted to do an actual faction system, red vs blue, like horde vs alliance would be a very heavy task (not so much if they built the game that way from the start, but we're past that lol).