Would you enjoy an arc where the WoL/WoD goes rogue (5.0 spoiler within)

[Kallera]

We are not an Ascian! Ascians are only those 13 that got tempered by Zodiark. (Yoshida explained that in an interview) We have the soul of a reborn Ancient (which more people probably have) which is a huge difference. Most people in this world dont even know about the existance of the Ascians. That might change with Garlemald, but its also likely that they will never tell the people about them.

Could it be more a distinction without a difference, given our skill with the echo, and given what Zenos and Makoto have demonstrated with the echo as well? What I’m saying is that we are still supermen gifted with a power that we have seen to transcend language, fortell events, hijack bodies and primals, snoop on memories, and conquer death itself, the applications of this can be pretty dire, especially in the eyes of those less endowed.

You can especially play with this theme in Ilsabard an Garlemald, where; let’s face it, the WoL has made a lot of orphans and widow(er)s over the years. Perhaps the people there don’t warm up to our protagonist; or their presence, while needed by the plot, becomes a point of division and controversy instead of the “Great Uniter of Peoples” we’ve been throughout.

[Gemina]

All of this is pretty funny to me. You're saying it's okay for me to not enjoy the idea, but in the same post complaining that I criticized it. You accuse me of being bitter about the story, but in the same post complain that the story is "unrealistic" because we haven't "been at odds" with the Scions—which apparently means trying to kill them if your opening post is anything to go by. You also complain that the characters have become "uninteresting", but again, apparently I'm the one bitter about the story.

I'm glad you're amused. But who's complaining? I just said you sound bitter. If you're that easily offended, it would make sense why the air you give off is belligerent. You can go on about and unraveling my threads of contradictions all day, but you're seriously missing the point. This thread was to entertain the idea of the WoL going rogue. And as I said before, it's perfectly fine to not be on board with it as many others here have also clearly expressed. However, an infuriating debate with a hotheaded poster about if the idea is "stupid" or not isn't what I put on the table.

Here's the thing: Good stories come to an end, and right now FF14's current story is doing just that. We've got 1-2 expansions left in it, depending on whether or not they make dealing with Garlemald and Zodiark a 2-for-1 deal. And after that, it's done. Wherever the next expansion after that goes, it will surely be a new start rather than another continuation of the plot started in A Realm Reborn. And if that means the Scions' stories also come to an end, that's fine. We don't need to drag them along wherever we go next.

Everything comes to an end, but we are not talking about the end. We are talking about how this story continues after the conclusion of the current conflict. Your thoughts on the Scions not even needing to come along during this transition, thus far that has been your biggest contribution to this thread.

But to entertain the idea that it would somehow be "interesting" for the Warrior of Light to suddenly go rogue, here's a thought:

Well all of this is just stupid...

just so you know, I don't really think that. But that's what your own rejection sounds like.

Now here's the thing: I don't necessarily believe any of the above is a good idea. In fact, I think it's full of some pretty bad ideas—having Minfilia come back after they finally got "Minfilia dies" right just to kill her off a fourth time being one of them.

And here's another thing: I never came out all enthusiastically saying, "OMG guys, I have the best idea ever on how to continue the story!" It was just an idea that popped in my head. That's it. I am well open to constructive criticism whenever I post an idea. However, what you've chosen to do is go after the poster as well as the post. Now for whatever reason this is, I don't know, nor care. This is not a suggestion thread you've seen countless times about some change to the status quo of the game. I figured it would be something refreshing to talk about while we all wait for August. But I do still acknowledge that you were able to finally present your own ideas to the topic while keeping it on the rails, some of which I thought was really good. Not sure what took you so long to hop on board, but better late than never.

[Lersayil]

The WoL could be a bit faceless if we would go to a place where we are not known without any of our friends. There we could for a time be the normal adventurer that helps others. But that would also change along the way. The more you help the more you are known and the more you are loved. Thus we would become a "face "again.

I am fine if we had an expansion like that because always just dealing with big wars or world ending threats gets boring too. But I am not sure why people would want to be a nobody..I always find it a bit strange to have cutscenes with important NPCs but your character is never in it while still doing all the heavy stuff. I already felt in ARR and HW like a simple weapon for the scions and not a person. Having even less impact in cutscenes while still doing most of it? Yeah that sounds horrible to me.

To some degree we do this every expansion. Only difference is that we bring the Scions with us. The Scions are a narrative device to balance out the WoLs silence. We have to have them around as our proxies, otherwise we become even more of a passive bystander, incapable of communicating anything but the most basic of thoughts via nods.

If we want to change this and still tell a fleshed out cohesive story (and still be a part of it), then the WoL would have to become his/her own proper character and communicate on her own. The former is already more or less true. The WoL does show signs of a personality and initiative every so often. But DRK quest aside, its always cut short, quickly looping back to a quest NPC. As for the WoL properly communicating, I highly doubt it will ever be a thing. It would be a different experience and writing style altogether, one that would also strip players of the illusion that they are playing a blank self-insert character.

tldr; as long as the WoL is a mute, we will always be attached to one character or another as our voice for the sake of complex story telling.

[Alleo]

You can especially play with this theme in Ilsabard an Garlemald, where; let’s face it, the WoL has made a lot of orphans and widow(er)s over the years. Perhaps the people there don’t warm up to our protagonist; or their presence, while needed by the plot, becomes a point of division and controversy instead of the “Great Uniter of Peoples” we’ve been throughout.

But one country not liking us would honestly not change much. You will always have people that hate you, no matter what you do and a lot of the people in Eorzea love us. So I cant see how us being superhuman changes any of that. And since we are also not the only one with the echo and we kinda did not face much pressure because of that in the story itself I cant see a reason on why that would make us go rogue or change our alliance with the scions.

tldr; as long as the WoL is a mute, we will always be attached to one character or another as our voice for the sake of complex story telling.

True but we dont really need the scions for that. We could travel to a new country alone and just maybe help a group of people, which will later be our voices. But since they might not know us we are less the WOL and more just an adventurer that is helpful.

[Kallera]

But one country not liking us would honestly not change much. You will always have people that hate you, no matter what you do and a lot of the people in Eorzea love us. So I cant see how us being superhuman changes any of that. And since we are also not the only one with the echo and we kinda did not face much pressure because of that in the story itself I cant see a reason on why that would make us go rogue or change our alliance with the scions.




True but we dont really need the scions for that. We could travel to a new country alone and just maybe help a group of people, which will later be our voices. But since they might not know us we are less the WOL and more just an adventurer that is helpful.

That suggestion sounds really underwhelming, I much prefer the wilder ones in this thread as they at least sound new. How would that imply “going rogue”? That is a very important part. You need something more severe than that to imply “going rogue.” You need conflict within the factions that we are dealing with. within either the scions, the eorzean alliance, or this new faction, something which cannot be settled inside of a chat over tea and a fetch quest.

[Morningstar1337]

You can especially play with this theme in Ilsabard an Garlemald, where; let’s face it, the WoL has made a lot of orphans and widow(er)s over the years. Perhaps the people there don’t warm up to our protagonist; or their presence, while needed by the plot, becomes a point of division and controversy instead of the “Great Uniter of Peoples” we’ve been throughout.

That would be an interesting angle. The seeds could be planted with the Weylt storyline, which already includes Orphans that hate the WoL (thought for different reasons)

[Alleo]

That suggestion sounds really underwhelming, I much prefer the wilder ones in this thread as they at least sound new. How would that imply “going rogue”? That is a very important part. You need something more severe than that to imply “going rogue.” You need conflict within the factions that we are dealing with. within either the scions, the eorzean alliance, or this new faction, something which cannot be settled inside of a chat over tea and a fetch quest.

My example was never meant to imply going rogue. I dont want us to go rogue (and the OPs question was if we would enjoy that). Honestly I want a good written story that makes sense (including how the characters act). I dont need shock and tragedy for the sake of it. Thus I would not enjoy if suddenly we would just turn our back on everyone..I see no good reason in this existing story to do that.

[Quintessa]

No I would not want that.

I mean what kind of story would this tell? How would you do your quests? Realistically not a single NPC would do anything with you anymore if you just betray them all.

I would have been fine for a very short moment where we got turned and then still trying to hang onto our sanity we fight against the scions, trying our best not to hurt them and with rejoining with Ardbert we would then get full control back and fight against the enemy and turn back after that. Or maybe just a big part of the expansion being on our own in a new country. That does not include going rogue.



The WoL could be a bit faceless if we would go to a place where we are not known without any of our friends. There we could for a time be the normal adventurer that helps others. But that would also change along the way. The more you help the more you are known and the more you are loved. Thus we would become a "face "again.

I am fine if we had an expansion like that because always just dealing with big wars or world ending threats gets boring too. But I am not sure why people would want to be a nobody..I always find it a bit strange to have cutscenes with important NPCs but your character is never in it while still doing all the heavy stuff. I already felt in ARR and HW like a simple weapon for the scions and not a person. Having even less impact in cutscenes while still doing most of it? Yeah that sounds horrible to me.



We are not an Ascian! Ascians are only those 13 that got tempered by Zodiark. (Yoshida explained that in an interview) We have the soul of a reborn Ancient (which more people probably have) which is a huge difference. Most people in this world dont even know about the existance of the Ascians. That might change with Garlemald, but its also likely that they will never tell the people about them.

Yoshida can give red herrings to make us believe whatever he wants.

Though I wouldn't like the idea of being an ascian, besides I think Miss Hyddy wouldn't give us her OP blessing if we were ascians, or even baring the soul of one. There's something to think about there.

[Iscah]

Yoshida can give red herrings to make us believe whatever he wants.

Though I wouldn't like the idea of being an ascian, besides I think Miss Hyddy wouldn't give us her OP blessing if we were ascians, or even baring the soul of one. There's something to think about there.

It's not a red herring, it's a matter of terminology.

The Ascians (ie. Zodiark's now-tempered summoners) were all Ancients, but not all Ancients were Ascians.

If our character was an Ascian, we'd be working with them.

[Kallera]

My example was never meant to imply going rogue. I dont want us to go rogue (and the OPs question was if we would enjoy that). Honestly I want a good written story that makes sense (including how the characters act). I dont need shock and tragedy for the sake of it. Thus I would not enjoy if suddenly we would just turn our back on everyone..I see no good reason in this existing story to do that.

Well, I would like a story where we “go rogue”. And I think Ilsabard and the Garlean country would be a great place to explore how we look from a less reputable perspective, we don’t need stereotypical Garlean racism to give a people reason to see the WoL, in not the same light as Eorzeans do.

Perhaps “going rogue” would be the way that we attempt to circumvent this, only for the reveal to complicate matters further as the WoL is rejected.

Or we end up “going rogue” in response to the rejection, throwing the reputation as “Eorzea’s champion” to the wind to get across the idea that, “there are bigger things at stake”, and, even if they are facing rejection, is in their choice to do the right thing.

So I guess agree to disagree, because I see worth in that sort of story. Unlike in Ishgard, where we were treated like a nobody until we were not, here it would be a reputation we have already garnered before our arrival(in my previous example, the people we killed, bad things people did inspired by us, etc.) that proves our hurdle.