So what's wrong with Summoner?

[Rezef]

I used to main SMN in the past as it was my starting job and I always liked SMN aesthetics. When SB released even if they were way too underpowered initially I really enjoyed the concept and kept playing, then buffs came and it was so fun playing the class. ShB though ruined it for me. It felt so awkward and clunky, it had lost its charm and I decided to change to another class.

[Jandor]

It feels somewhat of a mess thematically, but I'm told the gameplay is mostly fine.

Something of a DoT mage, plus a couple mini-primal pets, plus a couple primal trances, plus a few big showy summons. It all feels a bit much and a bit all over the place.

[ItMe]

I'm lvl59 and it seems the same way too. I think the issue is that the leveling process for SMN is really crappy since the job is so focused on a huge several-minute-long rotation that requires a plethora of trances and summons and whatnot, so the rotations have to be changed now and then as you learn new summons. I'm no expert tho so I might very likely be completely wrong.

No, you're pretty spot on.
You're missing huge aspects of SMNs rotation until the last few levels, and it doesn't prepare you for how it ultimately WILL play at 80, and that makes it feel even clunkier than it already is.

[Baklavah]

To be perfectly honest, SMN feels more like a grind to play than it should, what with its immense rotation and lack of actual "summoner" gameplay. At least in my opinion.

To fix this, I have devised a rather simple solution.

Step 1) Add more summons to the mix for every Primal defeated.

Step 2) Remove shared CD from the skills for each summon and instead put them on "summon specific" CDs.

Step 3) Allow for a cycling mechanic. As an example, I summon Ifrit-egi, use his specials, one after the other. After his abilities are used, he unsummons automatically (and becomes unable to be resummoned until such time as Bahamut or Phoenix are used), allowing you to summon the next Primal-egi. Once that happens, use the abilities as per the previous example. Rinse and repeat. Upon summoning Phoenix or Bahamut, reset the summons to the "useable" state and begin anew. (in order to facilitate this, pet taunts and and increased threat generation will need to be removed and replaced with something else to make Titan useable without destroying party threat by "taunting" enemies).

Step 4) Make it so that using all of a summon's abilities contribute to the SMN meter to summon Bahamut (1st cycle). After using Bahamut, you will have a timer. If the timer runs out before you refill the meter, it will reset back down to Bahamut. Otherwise, summon Phoenix once the meter is refilled by using the skill (2nd cycle). Timer will depend on how long it takes to cycle each summon. If you're very slow and prefer to use your spells over your egi's abilities, you will most likely never summon Phoenix.

Using the above method would not only make you actually feel like a Summoner, but it would be far more entertaining to both use and watch unfold. As it stands right now, SMN is basically a BLM without a focus on the elements. It's boring and feels uninspired.

What do you guys think? I've had this idea for a while.

[Soge01]

Snip

I like the idea but could eah big primal like Bahamut and Phoenix be attached to a different egi? Like Ifrit transitions into Bahamut, Garuda into Phoenix and Titan into Odin(?). Thought this way it'd be more interesting and make the player think about switching their egi depending on what summon they want to come out

[Marxam]

They need to ditch the summon 1-3 and replace it with "Materia" that you can attune to a primal. It's pet actions to each respective materia, ex. summon 1 (emerald materia) will do magic ranged, and be the same just changing aesthetically to suit the current attune primal to said materia. They also need to ditch dreadwyrm trance and replace it with Primal Trance that summons a bigger version of current egi. We can already summon bahamut so its redundant imo. Rotation still the same.

Otherwise SMN in its current from in ShB is pretty good and Phoenix is a nice addition though SMN is very ogcd weave heavy but the mobility of the class is something I value above all else.

[Bacillus]

Some issues i have while playing SMN.

• Job feels incomplete at lv 71 or below, like with no bahamuth at first dreadwyrm trance end and having to make 2 trances to summon it, at lv 72 its perfect, you can summon Bahamut after ending the first trance, then you have your Firebird skills in second trance.*
  
• Some skills without purpose or that were left behind: Pysick, no intelligence scalling, im not asking to make the job of a healer, but it feels weird to have a useless skill in your UI, you can remove it or change it into another suport skill to use. What about Enkindle? "you got this skill which you must spam every 2 minutes".*
  
• Devotion needs to be cast from the SMN rather than the pet, many times i got this problem, im summoning Bahamut/Phoenix and cant use devotion because it can be used only from my egi.*

[Rollout]

My personal opinion is that they should axe the Egis entirely and replace the Summon actions with "Summon Demi I/II/III" and you can assign whatever Primal you want to the Summon Demis in a Summoner-specific menu. They all have the same effect, but they're your own flavor.

Summon Demi I can be a high damaging single-target attack. Summon Demi II can be a defensive buff. Summon Demi III can be a small/moderately-damaging multi-target attack.

So, for example, using Summon Demi I will cause the Demi to appear on target's ring and do a very obvious single target hit. Think Ifrit's Incinerate, Titan's Mountainbuster and Garuda's Slipstream (I'm aware these attacks cleave normally, but they're SUPPOSED to only be taken by a single target). Summon Demi II will have the Demi appear above/behind/around the Summoner, doing something to protect the Summoner, like Ifrit curling his arm around them, Garuda shielding them with her wings or Titan summoning a wall to guard them. Summon Demi III, meanwhile, can be their obvious targeted-AoEs... Ifrit's Eruption, Titan's Weight of the Land and Garuda's Aerial Blast.

And, obviously, the other Primals that you defeat and assign can have their own versions of the attacks, but they all have the same effects/potency, so it will prevent skill bloat.

[Gruntler]

Summoner is overtuned and obsoleting other casters at the top end, and that's its big problem.

[Gallus]

Gameplay wise, it feels really nice to play. Thematically...it's a bit of a mess imo. A random egi turning into Demi Bahamut/Phoenix feels awkward. Also, Demi Phoenix rotation is super satisfying, but Bahamut doesn't convince me tbh. And DWT is so just like there at this point xd.