So what's wrong with Summoner?

[Rika007]

The biggest issue with the class right now is pet AI, and more specifically the base egis. For years the pet AI design that SE has implemented has been embarrassing to say the least, and the job changes this expansion have really highlighted just how bad it is. At this point, I'd rather the base Egis just be removed entirely, or used only for visuals in game. As much as it may not make sense from a theme perspective (and would probably spark outrage from some players), I just don't think it's appropriate to keep this pet system in place if SE is still refusing to fix the long list of problems it has (some of which can be traced back to the HW era).

Aside from that, the 5.1 changes have mostly fixed the mechanical issues the job had.

I personally have voted that making the Pet's into sub level 70 forms of the trance and Demi summon rotation would keep the flavor but also acknowledge that they are a thing of the past. To essentially describe what I mean, moving into 6.0 and on, you would see Dreadwyrm Trance reworked into being very similar to Firebird Trance (I would also say there would need to be some changes to FBT to make it a bit more rewarding then DWT since it is technically the more powerful form) and have it so that Bahamut summons when you go right into DWT. This would help especially since right now DWT is only used for a few GCD's in the opener weaving and then instantly dispelled as fast as possible to get Bahamut out. Could even give it a 1,1,1,2 rotation of Ruin4 and Deathflare so you don't lose the cool animation and diversify it up from FBT's 1,2,1,2 rotation.

And for anything pre level 70 you would have the egi's, who would turn into the same rotation as the Demi's, where you summon one then the other in a set schedule and use things like Enkindle on a much shorter cool down for big damage. You could have Garuda play the part of Bahamut, Ifrit of Phoenix, and Titan of whatever the next inevitable Demi would be. This would not only remove quite a bit of the clunkiness of the pet controls and having to deal with egi-assault BS, but also would really help in newer players learning Summoner as they level up, as let's face it, Summoner pre level 70 is NOTHING like what it is from 70 to 80, and is probably the most jarring change of any other jobs.

There will have to be a few changes after the fact to compensate it. There will need to be a new way to proc Ruin 4, and certainly a more reliable way as the loss of Egi Assaults will hurt mobility quite a bit. Devotion will need to be reworked to go based off of the SMN themselves and not the egi, and would probably need to be renamed to something more thematic too. And of course the timings of them all will need to be swapped up with the inevitable 'step 3' of the summoner rotation that brings out Alexander or whoever the heck we will be playing god mode with next. Overall though the changes will lead to a more fluid leveling process, a much more fluid and consistent opener, and no loss of job flavor or thematicism.

After that we just need to find a way to convince the devs to make Demi Bahamut and Phoenix STAY FREAKING STILL AND NOT FOLLOW US LIKE LOST PUPPY DOGS FOR THE LOVE OF THE TWELVE!!!!

[ItMe]

[…] the job changes this expansion have really highlighted just how bad it is.

I am new to SMNing. Can you explain further please?
What are all these AI problems that people keep vaguely alluding to?

[Nemekh]

Pet actions cancelling, delaying, duping and ghosting due to the general AI they have especially when move checks are involved.

The Pet Order commands (Egi Assaults, Enkindles, Devotion) don't resolve when you'd like them to with consistency and still retains bugs from Shadowbringers release.

Bahamut and Phoenix had "summoning sickness" where they couldn't react to GCDs immediately when Bahamut always did in Stormblood. Bahamut was fixed and Phoenix remains in this state.

[HeulGDarian]

I personally have voted that making the Pet's into sub level 70 forms of the trance and Demi summon rotation would keep the flavor but also acknowledge that they are a thing of the past. To essentially describe what I mean, moving into 6.0 and on, you would see Dreadwyrm Trance reworked into being very similar to Firebird Trance (I would also say there would need to be some changes to FBT to make it a bit more rewarding then DWT since it is technically the more powerful form) and have it so that Bahamut summons when you go right into DWT. This would help especially since right now DWT is only used for a few GCD's in the opener weaving and then instantly dispelled as fast as possible to get Bahamut out. Could even give it a 1,1,1,2 rotation of Ruin4 and Deathflare so you don't lose the cool animation and diversify it up from FBT's 1,2,1,2 rotation.

And for anything pre level 70 you would have the egi's, who would turn into the same rotation as the Demi's, where you summon one then the other in a set schedule and use things like Enkindle on a much shorter cool down for big damage. You could have Garuda play the part of Bahamut, Ifrit of Phoenix, and Titan of whatever the next inevitable Demi would be. This would not only remove quite a bit of the clunkiness of the pet controls and having to deal with egi-assault BS, but also would really help in newer players learning Summoner as they level up, as let's face it, Summoner pre level 70 is NOTHING like what it is from 70 to 80, and is probably the most jarring change of any other jobs.

There will have to be a few changes after the fact to compensate it. There will need to be a new way to proc Ruin 4, and certainly a more reliable way as the loss of Egi Assaults will hurt mobility quite a bit. Devotion will need to be reworked to go based off of the SMN themselves and not the egi, and would probably need to be renamed to something more thematic too. And of course the timings of them all will need to be swapped up with the inevitable 'step 3' of the summoner rotation that brings out Alexander or whoever the heck we will be playing god mode with next. Overall though the changes will lead to a more fluid leveling process, a much more fluid and consistent opener, and no loss of job flavor or thematicism.

After that we just need to find a way to convince the devs to make Demi Bahamut and Phoenix STAY FREAKING STILL AND NOT FOLLOW US LIKE LOST PUPPY DOGS FOR THE LOVE OF THE TWELVE!!!!

Nugget has been good to me and so has been the Chicken and the Red pepper i dont want them removed leave my friends alone >:C

[LathyrusLoon]

I always loved the complexity of summoner, but trying to come back to it, after maining drk and drg for shadowbringer, I'm having a hell of a time figuring out how to play it again.

I keep looking at my chotbars in confusion. I wish there was a "recap dun" that would walk you through the rotation for your level. haha.
(Seriously though, can anyone point me to a step by step I can use to get the hang of playing it again?? summoner for returning dummies maybe??)

[Insertusernamehere]

I am new to SMN I liked concept but pet have glaring problem even new player can see it.. If you chain pet skills one after another some times your pet skill not used but your charge consumed it happens especially if target dies during pet casting... also pet uses significant time to travel towards boss especially if boss likes teleport around (Jade Stoa decent example)..

Concept is nice but pet AI problematic.. Either give the pets proper physics and increase dps output (old version pets with hp bar) or turn them ghost and give them gap closer ability keep up dps uptime :3
I haven't unlocked Fire Bird yet... so no comments on them.

[HeulGDarian]

I always loved the complexity of summoner, but trying to come back to it, after maining drk and drg for shadowbringer, I'm having a hell of a time figuring out how to play it again.

I keep looking at my chotbars in confusion. I wish there was a "recap dun" that would walk you through the rotation for your level. haha.
(Seriously though, can anyone point me to a step by step I can use to get the hang of playing it again?? summoner for returning dummies maybe??)

should go to either balance or akh morning to see stuff, i do not guarantee that it will be 100% smn for dummies but it explains how rotations work and what you have to look out for

[Nemekh]

AkhMorning's currently undergoing a big redesign and rebranding this summer, however, we'll be revising and pushing out content updates in the meantime. Going over and improving the levelling sections is one of the more immediate items on the cards.

Feel free to ask any questions in the discord and give us feedback!

[Vyrerus]

Not much to add, but the reason SMN has Bio and Miasma and stuff isn't just because of Arcanist. It's lowkey an Final Fantasy 4 reference to Rydia having Bio be her best spell, even out damaging a lot of her summons for the majority of the game.

[NullPointerException]

[QUOTE=Shriex;5371896I'm only level 66; does the job start to go downhill or something?[/QUOTE]

I'm lvl59 and it seems the same way too. I think the issue is that the leveling process for SMN is really crappy since the job is so focused on a huge several-minute-long rotation that requires a plethora of trances and summons and whatnot, so the rotations have to be changed now and then as you learn new summons. I'm no expert tho so I might very likely be completely wrong.