BLM Raise.

[Archwizard]

I don't think BLM should get a Raise at all. That would spit in the face of the job's history throughout the series as a pure offensive caster. I could see BLM getting a souped-up Drain back for self-healing while leveling/soloing, or arguments for BLM to get some kind of enemy vulnerability debuff (and even that would be met with resistance, given its current "high damage for low utility" position in the party), but Raise is completely out of the question.

To be honest, I'm even on the fence about ACN/SMN keeping Resurrect. There's nothing saying SCH couldn't "retroactively" get Resurrect as a Level 12 action only while wearing their Job Crystal; the faerie summons and Whispering Dawn already work the same way, and literally all of the other spells it "shares" with ACN already have separate IDs (just look at your Actions menu as a SCH, Resurrect is the only one listed under Class), so that connection isn't even a solid justification for ACN/SMN to keep it. I understand the practical purpose of giving rezzes to DPS, in case one or both healer(s) die, but justifying it for multiple DPS jobs in a single role is really why the whole discussion of giving one to BLM comes up in the first place. That being said, Summoner's history throughout the series is wishy-washy on whether its own magic is more oriented towards healing (Yuna, Eiko) or damage (Rydia), so there's some small precedent for keeping it.

RDM should keep Verraise for all the same reasons BLM shouldn't get it -- the job's history throughout the series as a hybrid means RDM should get a strong party utility related to healing, and while Vercure has niche uses, they're largely self-serving; Verraise is where RDM's heritage as a healer-hybrid truly shines. That being said, I'm not against Verraise getting some limitations in exchange for more output given to the RDM, in the event having 3-5 extra rezzes on-demand isn't strictly necessary.

I'm also all for getting a 4th caster that doesn't have anything to do with raising, such as GEO, so that BLM doesn't feel left out in that regard; at the very least the argument that "BLM is the only caster without a rez" would die down if there were as many without as there were with one.

[Kabooa]

I don't think BLM should get a Raise at all. That would spit in the face of the job's history throughout the series as a pure offensive caster..

Everyone is historically capable of throwing a Phoenix Down.

[AbelArchaniEA]

Everyone is historically capable of throwing a Phoenix Down.

Yup but that’s out of combat in this game so gg

[Archwizard]

Everyone is historically capable of throwing a Phoenix Down.

Ignoring that Phoenix Downs exist already in 14 (which every suggestion for a Chemist healer seems to but I digress), by that logic, why not just give a raise to everyone - Tanks, Melee, Ranged. Hell, let 'em all throw Potions and Ethers at allies while we're at it. Put healers out of a job completely.

It's not a job skill, it's a non-exclusive item, doesn't count, don't be pedantic.

[Kabooa]

Ignoring that Phoenix Downs exist already in 14 (which every suggestion for a Chemist healer seems to but I digress), by that logic, why not just give a raise to everyone - Tanks, Melee, Ranged. Hell, let 'em all throw Potions and Ethers at allies while we're at it. Put healers out of a job completely.

It's not a job skill, it's a non-exclusive item, doesn't count, don't be pedantic.

Yes.

Why not just give raise to everyone? Why limit it? There's already a self contained balancing factor through death penalty, so why shouldn't everyone be capable of it?

Keep in mind this is the opposite of "Why not just get rid of it from everyone but the healers?"

Historically speaking, it's much more valid to give everyone access. And then you don't have to suffer an arbitrary none-to-15% tax.

[BasicBlake]

I don't think BLM should get a Raise at all. That would spit in the face of the job's history throughout the series as a pure offensive caster. I could see BLM getting a souped-up Drain back for self-healing while leveling/soloing, or arguments for BLM to get some kind of enemy vulnerability debuff (and even that would be met with resistance, given its current "high damage for low utility" position in the party), but Raise is completely out of the question.

To be honest, I'm even on the fence about ACN/SMN keeping Resurrect. There's nothing saying SCH couldn't "retroactively" get Resurrect as a Level 12 action only while wearing their Job Crystal; the faerie summons and Whispering Dawn already work the same way, and literally all of the other spells it "shares" with ACN already have separate IDs (just look at your Actions menu as a SCH, Resurrect is the only one listed under Class), so that connection isn't even a solid justification for ACN/SMN to keep it. I understand the practical purpose of giving rezzes to DPS, in case one or both healer(s) die, but justifying it for multiple DPS jobs in a single role is really why the whole discussion of giving one to BLM comes up in the first place. That being said, Summoner's history throughout the series is wishy-washy on whether its own magic is more oriented towards healing (Yuna, Eiko) or damage (Rydia), so there's some small precedent for keeping it.

RDM should keep Verraise for all the same reasons BLM shouldn't get it -- the job's history throughout the series as a hybrid means RDM should get a strong party utility related to healing, and while Vercure has niche uses, they're largely self-serving; Verraise is where RDM's heritage as a healer-hybrid truly shines. That being said, I'm not against Verraise getting some limitations in exchange for more output given to the RDM, in the event having 3-5 extra rezzes on-demand isn't strictly necessary.

I'm also all for getting a 4th caster that doesn't have anything to do with raising, such as GEO, so that BLM doesn't feel left out in that regard; at the very least the argument that "BLM is the only caster without a rez" would die down if there were as many without as there were with one.

I really couldn't say it much better than this.

Smn isn't penalized enough for being able to resurrect in my opinion. Please give us another caster without a rez, there is really no reason we have as many as we do in the game honestly.

I'm not sure why people around here seem to think everyone needs a rez.

[Kabooa]

I'm not sure why people around here seem to think everyone needs a rez.

In its current form, it's a polarizing utility that offers very little room for negotiation, and serves as a lynchpin on balance, where it is either valued too much and the jobs it is attached to are too weak in other areas, or it is valued too little and you end up with a domineering position held by the job penalized the least.

Get rid of it, or share it, or rework how it fits into the overall scheme of the game, because we already see where they have to make compromises in other content areas to account for its presence or absence, such as in Eureka and Deep Dungeon, while also seeing how extreme the differences between jobs have to be to actually make it a choice between whether you bring a raise class or not.

[Archwizard]

Historically speaking, it's much more valid to give everyone access. And then you don't have to suffer an arbitrary none-to-15% tax.

... except that would be horrendously broken, in I can't even count how many ways? You're talking virtually infinite rez access at all times for all encounters, with no DPS penalties for anyone.

If you meant to add some nuance as a balancing factor, like raid-wide cooldowns or something, it's suspiciously absent from your actual text.

[Kabooa]

... except that would be horrendously broken, in I can't even count how many ways? You're talking virtually infinite rez access at all times for all encounters, with no DPS penalties for anyone.

If you meant to add some nuance as a balancing factor, like raid-wide cooldowns or something, it's suspiciously absent from your actual text.

There is the built in cost of using Raise, the built in penalty of needing it through Resurrection Sickness, and lastly the penalty for simply having the ability to raise.

We would only be removing the last part, which is effectively nothing.

[ItMe]

it's [...] a lynchpin on balance, where it is either valued too much and the jobs it is attached to are too weak in other areas, or it is valued too little and you end up with a domineering position held by the job penalized the least.

Neat.
So people have options and can decide for themselves what they want. That sounds like healthy game design.

But in terms of how "the meta" attaches value to things... in TEA recruitment groups RDMs were getting turned away because even though their raises are a great tool for prog no one wanted them instead of the overtuned SMN and BLM.
Sounds like the way things are, if anything BLM doesn't need more it brings to the table.