Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

[Noctilio]

I've saved groups from wipes with rescue. I've pulled a tank into furniture to transfer a blue flame and was thanked. When a boss encounter splits into 3 in an alliance raid, I've pulled tanks to the correct enemy to deal with. I've pulled countless DPS out of dangerous situations and AoEs and behind meteors and into cover.

Rescue isn't the issue. People, as usual, are.

[Veis_Alveare]

Oh really, so you KNEW about macros while you were whining about how hard it is to type on a PS4 controller, and THAT was your reason why Healers can't/don't communicate their preferences? Very interesting to know.

It isn't any tanks job to pull the way you want them to. You didn't hire them and you don't make the rules. Even single pulls are perfectly valid, and if you don't want that you open your little mouth like an adult and ask for something else. I'm sorry the world has failed to teach you the absolute basics of interacting with people to this degree.

I'll do the thing when you confirm you're not going to get the group killed by botching your role. Making a macro isn't that hard; would you like me to walk you through it?

I'm confused - are you under the impression that "every pull is valid <3 uwu" but the new/returning/uneducated players who don't know about macros or don't want to use them for whatever reason aren't valid? You sure seem to be willing to act like it's normal to expect people to understand a basic function in the game, so why are you so ready to accept people not understanding other basic functions like the skills they acquire?

You can't have it both ways. You don't get to crap on people for having expectations for their tanks then just set another (more obscure and far less common) expectation for your healers.

I get it, I do. You've dug a hole, there is literally nothing you can do now but respond back to me with things that make less and less sense. You need to stick to the guns that I'm willing to bet even you see are stupid at this point or what have you even been whining about for the past ten pages?

Thank every god that you're on Crystal. Please never leave.

[Rae88]

Ya'll need to calm down. It's dungeon content. It doesn't matter.

Yep

The "you spank it you tank it" rule came about when dungeon content was hard to progress through - make sure the tank gets aggro, don't DPS too quick, make sure to CC mobs A and B. These days and in this game dungeons are pretty relaxing content

People need to relax more and enjoy themselves

[Goji1639]

I'm confused - are you under the impression that "every pull is valid <3 uwu" but the new/returning/uneducated players who don't know about macros or don't want to use them for whatever reason aren't valid? You sure seem to be willing to act like it's normal to expect people to understand a basic function in the game, so why are you so ready to accept people not understanding other basic functions like the skills they acquire?

You can't have it both ways. You don't get to crap on people for having expectations for their tanks then just set another (more obscure and far less common) expectation for your healers.

I get it, I do. You've dug a hole, there is literally nothing you can do now but respond back to me with things that make less and less sense. You need to stick to the guns that I'm willing to bet even you see are stupid at this point or what have you even been whining about for the past ten pages?

I rarely see this much blathering nonsense posted simply to posture and save face. I never said people shouldn't understand the skills they acquire; that has virtually nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I also never said not wanting to use Macros isn't valid. You can use them to relay simple messages, or you can struggle on your gamepad; doesn't really matter to me. It's just kind of sad you've played this game for as long as you have and didn't know macros exist.

Now, are you done posturing and going off on weird tangents in some kind of pathetic attempt to save face?

If so, then back to the subject at hand. If you want wall to wall pulls ask like an adult... It's super easy to do, and it'll give you the practice interacting with people you sorely need. It may even give you the confidence to go out in the world and make friends, or even get a job. There's no limit to the things you can accomplish when you know how to communicate.

[Awha]

Couldn't the same be said if people want small pulls they could ask? Though leaving that aside verbal communication is not the only form of "valid" communication. If a group pulls extra, or move ahead of the tank and jump in place, or rescue the tank into a pack of mobs, or they could just ask.

Every method is requesting the same thing just people take the other forms of requesting far to personally. Does not seem like behaviour of an adult but what do I know about being an adult I am a lala.

[Goji1639]

Couldn't the same be said if people want small pulls they could ask? Though leaving that aside verbal communication is not the only form of "valid" communication. If a group pulls extra, or move ahead of the tank and jump in place, or rescue the tank into a pack of mobs, or they could just ask.

Every method is requesting the same thing just people take the other forms of requesting far to personally. Does not seem like behaviour of an adult but what do I know about being an adult I am a lala.

The Healer is the one who determines if a wall to wall pull succeeds or fails, so he's the one who needs to say something if the group is going to be confident in attempting one. I could ask the healer at the start of each run, but someone else asking and waiting for the healer to respond is the most time consuming approach. Much easier if the Healer just tells everyone he doesn't suck before the run starts.

I mean it just makes the most sense to me, but Healers apparently refuse to talk to their groups in this game. We have an oddly contentious, anti-social community in FFXIV, so simple things become complicated.

Also, I have asked Healers if they can handle wall to walls at the start. They pretty much always say yes, even if they can't.

Edit: Also, Rescuing the tank relocates the pull, which screws over the DPS who thought the pull had ended and had already placed their AoE's, popped CDs, etc, and it disorients the tank. That's just stupid.

I've also already stated that I'm actually fine with healers running ahead and pulling more, as long as they bring them back to me. Just don't touch me with Rescue.

[Awha]

Personally as a tank if I had to pick between a crappy healer or crappy dps I would pick the healer over the dps. For me personally overall damage seems to be the deciding factor to larger pulls but that is my personal take.

Sure rescue can be annoying but tbh based off the thread people seem to oversell the inconvenience recuse imposes on the group. Or even pulling ahead imposes on the group. Seems silly to fight on either side for something that is so trivial.

Mainly this is why I prefer the silent vote method if it passes cool i stay, if it fails I leave.

[Goji1639]

Personally as a tank if I had to pick between a crappy healer or crappy dps I would pick the healer over the dps. For me personally overall damage seems to be the deciding factor to larger pulls but that is my personal take.

Sure rescue can be annoying but tbh based off the thread people seem to oversell the inconvenience recuse imposes on the group. Or even pulling ahead imposes on the group. Seems silly to fight on either side for something that is so trivial.

Mainly this is why I prefer the silent vote method if it passes cool i stay, if it fails I leave.

Eh, I mean I can do wall to wall pulls without much issue even in Trusts, because Alphinaud is a semi-competent healer. It takes forever because all the DPS are single targeting everything, but it works.

I can make crappy DPS work if the Healer is decent. The Healer is the xfactor.

[Veis_Alveare]

I rarely see this much blathering nonsense posted simply to posture and save face. I never said people shouldn't understand the skills they acquire; that has virtually nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I also never said not wanting to use Macros isn't valid. You can use them to relay simple messages, or you can struggle on your gamepad; doesn't really matter to me. It's just kind of sad you've played this game for as long as you have and didn't know macros exist.

Now, are you done posturing and going off on weird tangents in some kind of pathetic attempt to save face?

If so, then back to the subject at hand. If you want wall to wall pulls ask like an adult... It's super easy to do, and it'll give you the practice interacting with people you sorely need. It may even give you the confidence to go out in the world and make friends, or even get a job. There's no limit to the things you can accomplish when you know how to communicate.

I obviously know macros exist, I've been an omni crafter for years. Trying to act as if you (who legitimately think single pulls are valid outside of extreme circumstances) is in any way more knowledgable about any facet of the game is so utterly laughable I've actually had an irl giggle at it. Thanks for that?

If you thought it was reasonable to expect people to understand their skills you'd never pull small outside of those extreme circumstances (horribly undergeared, super early dungeon where people don't have AoE, etc.) because all it takes for a full pull to be successful is an understanding of your kit and an internet connection.

Your attempts at insulting me in a passive aggressive fashion just further go to show you dont have a leg to stand on. You've got no reason to think I don't have friends or a job, you're just saying things like that because people with bad arguments resort to ad homs. Aside from it certainly being reportable (dont worry, I didn't, I'd rather you stick around for entertainment) it would be similar to me suggesting maybe if you pulled big girls would stop ignoring you irl because you're so weak and pathetic. I'm not saying that - maybe you are a girl, maybe you dont like girls, maybe you're happily married, but the logic is the same.

Just stop playing the game wrong please. Or, like I said, stay on crystal. They quarantined people there for a reason.

[Kalker]

If you thought it was reasonable to expect people to understand their skills you'd never pull small outside of those extreme circumstances (horribly undergeared, super early dungeon where people don't have AoE, etc.) because all it takes for a full pull to be successful is an understanding of your kit and an internet connection.

Honestly even in super early dungeons like Sastasha you're better off doing big pulls anyways.

The first 3 groups have around 10 mobs total, and the 1200 potency you're dishing out per GCD on PLD (weakest tank aoe at 120 potency, FoF not included) is worth way more than the 140 potency you'd get from Stone (lower if not WHM). Sure it's better if both DPS also have AoE skills, but tank alone makes decent sized pulls worth it.

I'm mostly just rambling, but it goes to show that there's no real "valid" reason to ever pull small in this game.