Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

[Goji1639]

I dunno what to tell you. Maybe Crystal really is that bad? I don't see people baby pulling generally and those that I do encounter usually respond well to a little nudge in the right direction.

Common sense is getting through the instance quickly. There are a ton of reasons a healer might not be able to respond to a request asking about pull size much less post their own. Have you ever tried to type out a sentence using a ps4 controller? Every dungeon shouldn't be set to a snail's pace just because 1/4 of the group hasn't explicitly consented to not RP-walk through the whole map.

I guarantee you've wasted more time with this than I have. Do I occasionally see a wipe? Sure, but they're rare enough I can't recall the last one in a dungeon. People can put on their bigboi pants, you just need to provide the opportunity to do so.

Do you know how easy it is to create a macro that says "/p Big pulls please <3," even on a PS4 controller, and to click that macro in the like 10 seconds before you're even allowed to move forward at the start of a run?

If you're too lazy to do that then you're the one wasting everyone's time, by not giving the tank the reassurance he needs that you're not going to botch it if he pulls big.

[Yue_Amariyo]

Not sure if it has been said but tank it you spank mostly was just a thing because aggro management use to be a pain in games like classic WoW or FFXIV. Was far easier to let the person who had aggro die then have the tank pick pick up the aggro after the death.

Aggro management is a non issue in this game. Sure in terms of optimization having the tank pull mobs is more efficient, but let us be real tbe major issues comes down to this aspect of control that stems from being a tank. Whichbis understandable.

mind telling that to tanks who refuse to aoe. enmity management is not gone, just easier. If tank is ST in groups healer gets hate pretty fast. got my face munched a few times on healer due to keeping tank up.

[Awha]

mind telling that to tanks who refuse to aoe. enmity management is not gone, just easier. If tank is ST in groups healer gets hate pretty fast. got my face munched a few times on healer due to keeping tank up.

I do not even bother if a tank refuses to use their AoE I just vote to remove them ASAP. You cannot help bad players, and I have seen some awful players, I have ran into ST only tanks and it is rough.

[Awha]

Aggro isn't the issue with big pulls; at least for me it isn't. The issue is whether or not the healer can keep up. If the healer doesn't offer that information then assuming he can't is less frustrating than assuming he can and being wrong.

It's just common sense. If you're playing a game with someone, and have no idea whether or not they're any good, you don't immediately throw them onto the hardest difficulty. That will just be annoying for everyone.

Healers are the crux of big pulls, and they could make this a lot simpler by just stating their capabilities from the start. I'm not sure why that suggestion is generally met with so much refusal here.

Personally I ignore chat, most the time I have party chat in a different tab. I know that to be the case for a lot of players at least within my circle that do the same. So trying to convey anything via text is kind of a no go personally for me. I have been in groups as the tank and the group is spamming me to stop or do smaller pulls and I did not even notice until the end of the run when I checked the tab. In the end most the time the healer kept it, even with a subpar healer if your dps is on point and you manage your cooldowns properly even in large pulls is hard to die at max level. Different story depending on the level range. '

Granted unless your healer is god tier garbage, like you would be better off with a RDM or a SMN as your healer garbage. Which I know the exist, I have ran into them but personally they are not the norm for me personally, but I get your experience might be different.

[Melichoir]

Again, I've leveled up every role and wall to wall isn't even remotely common until expert roulettes. I think we're operating on very different interpretations of what the word outlier means.

Also, defaulting to the most difficult strategy when you don't know your groups capabilities is complete nonsense. Having the tools to handle mass pulls doesn't mean those tools will be used well, or at all. The healer is the most important factor, so if the Healer wants the group to adopt the most difficult strategy then he needs to be the one to reassure the group he can handle it. It's just common sense.

Not sure how you managed to do it, but big pulling is fairly common. Maybe not wall to wall like Expert, but 2 or 3 packs at a time in Haukke Manor or Qarn? Yeah, thats pretty normal in most of my runs.

Second, the concept that its "super hard" on healers to do big pulls is silly. Its not. I literally have an alt thats mid 30s, terribly geared in vender trash, and have done dungeons with sprouts whos only class is a healer and nothing else, and ran with big pulls and did fine. Did that mean I had to use my CDs a bit more efficiently? Sure. But it was manageable. The healer didnt say "Stop big pulling" or anything. They rolled with it. And this isnt a one off - its the norm for me. I think many healers when pressed, surprisingly are quite capable of spamming their heals and keeping a gung hoe tank alive. It only starts to show issue if they run down on mana, and you keep pulling.

Personally, I think mass pulling is boring. There's little strat in it. I would prefer dungeons to be more interesting and tactical. Oddly, its probably this ideal that makes PotD fun to me (at floors above 150 at least). You cant just pull and not give a d. You actually have to be somewhat cautious and plan stuff. But I fully understand the average player has very little patience for this kind of style. So if I had to deal with it, I would prefer getting it done quickly too. And as it stands, new healers are plenty capable of healing big pulls. Maybe not wall to wall, but 2-3 packs is definitely within their ability.

[Veis_Alveare]

Do you know how easy it is to create a macro that says "/p Big pulls please <3," even on a PS4 controller, and to click that macro in the like 10 seconds before you're even allowed to move forward at the start of a run?

If you're too lazy to do that then you're the one wasting everyone's time, by not giving the tank the reassurance he needs that you're not going to botch it if he pulls big.

Do you know what's even easier than making a macro?

Just doing your job as a tank without needing to be told to.

[Goji1639]

Do you know what's even easier than making a macro?

Just doing your job as a tank without needing to be told to.

Awww, what's the matter? Now that I've made communicating 100x easier for you by teaching you a basic function of this game you were clueless about, you're suddenly too lazy to communicate?

See, this is the refusal to simply ask I keep talking about. You people deny it then just go right back to doing it. This community is amazing.

[Veis_Alveare]

Awww, what's the matter? Now that I've made communicating 100x easier for you by teaching you a basic function of this game you were clueless about, you're suddenly too lazy to communicate?

See, this is the refusal to simply ask I keep talking about. You people deny it then just go right back to doing it. This community is amazing.

Macros aren't some sort of magical, hidden system (though I'm sure there are players who are unaware of them) that you're enlightening the world about, the issue is what you want is entirely unnecessary.

You're ridiculously entitled. You expect everyone else to work around your weird hangups rather than just accepting what the defacto pull style is. No one else needs to be told to do their job, why can't you be like virtually every other tank?

Tank stance. Sprint pre-conbat for a 20 second duration. Ranged enmity generator, AoE the first pack. Pop your short CD if the run is long or sprint is wearing off. AoE each next pack. Stop. Pop a heftier CD unless there is a WHM stunning the enemies then do something lighter/hold off for a few seconds. Invulnerability as needed.

There, you're prepared to do the thing. No more excuses, nothing changes for you depending on anyone else. No one needs to macro anything or ask questions or conduct a 45 minute interview to get their roulette done.

Gcbtw.

[Goji1639]

Not sure how you managed to do it, but big pulling is fairly common. Maybe not wall to wall like Expert, but 2 or 3 packs at a time in Haukke Manor or Qarn? Yeah, thats pretty normal in most of my runs.

Second, the concept that its "super hard" on healers to do big pulls is silly. Its not. I literally have an alt thats mid 30s, terribly geared in vender trash, and have done dungeons with sprouts whos only class is a healer and nothing else, and ran with big pulls and did fine. Did that mean I had to use my CDs a bit more efficiently? Sure. But it was manageable. The healer didnt say "Stop big pulling" or anything. They rolled with it. And this isnt a one off - its the norm for me. I think many healers when pressed, surprisingly are quite capable of spamming their heals and keeping a gung hoe tank alive. It only starts to show issue if they run down on mana, and you keep pulling.

Personally, I think mass pulling is boring. There's little strat in it. I would prefer dungeons to be more interesting and tactical. Oddly, its probably this ideal that makes PotD fun to me (at floors above 150 at least). You cant just pull and not give a d. You actually have to be somewhat cautious and plan stuff. But I fully understand the average player has very little patience for this kind of style. So if I had to deal with it, I would prefer getting it done quickly too. And as it stands, new healers are plenty capable of healing big pulls. Maybe not wall to wall, but 2-3 packs is definitely within their ability.

2-3 packs is usually fine; I've been specifying wall to wall, which I basically never see leveling. Single pulls is a bit unusual, but not unheard of. I even do it for some pulls in low level dungeons because of how they're designed; sometimes it's a 30 second run through a convoluted path between pulls, and instead of dragging a group of enemies for the whole ride I'd rather just kill it.

Either way plenty of healers can't handle wall to wall pulls, so the ones that can should ask. As for the difference between single and double pulls, that's more of a grey area in terms of what's expected. It still takes a pretty special level of social ineptitude to fight simply asking as hard as this community does.

[Goji1639]

Macros aren't some sort of magical, hidden system (though I'm sure there are players who are unaware of them) that you're enlightening the world about, the issue is what you want is entirely unnecessary.

You're ridiculously entitled. You expect everyone else to work around your weird hangups rather than just accepting what the defacto pull style is. No one else needs to be told to do their job, why can't you be like virtually every other tank?

Tank stance. Sprint pre-conbat for a 20 second duration. Ranged enmity generator, AoE the first pack. Pop your short CD if the run is long or sprint is wearing off. AoE each next pack. Stop. Pop a heftier CD unless there is a WHM stunning the enemies then do something lighter/hold off for a few seconds. Invulnerability as needed.

There, you're prepared to do the thing. No more excuses, nothing changes for you depending on anyone else. No one needs to macro anything or ask questions or conduct a 45 minute interview to get their roulette done.

Gcbtw.

Oh really, so you KNEW about macros while you were whining about how hard it is to type on a PS4 controller, and THAT was your reason why Healers can't/don't communicate their preferences? Very interesting to know.

It isn't any tanks job to pull the way you want them to. You didn't hire them and you don't make the rules. Even single pulls are perfectly valid, and if you don't want that you open your little mouth like an adult and ask for something else. I'm sorry the world has failed to teach you the absolute basics of interacting with people to this degree.

I'll do the thing when you confirm you're not going to get the group killed by botching your role. Making a macro isn't that hard; would you like me to walk you through it?