Calamities explained

[Naria]

I think they're finally feeling threatened. It was mentioned that Lahabrea's repeat body hopping had led him to insanity, and I have to wonder if perhaps Elidibus might be feeling the onset of that, too. Not to mention that there's now a Warrior of Light/Darkness who has proven capable of killing multiple Ascians (2 in the MSQ plus the Ascians of the Chalice in SMN 60). They accidentally started a war that threatened them, so now they're trying to move the timetable up so they don't lose everything.

I'm being pedantic here but technically the WoL only killed Emet-Selch. Lahabrea was killed by Thordan (although you could argue the WoL helped) . Nabriales and Igeyorhm and the various suits Acians should all be shards/reflections that were raised up to their posts, and could be replaced the same way. We've seen this happen with Emmerololth I believe, since Emmerololth died in 5.0 at the Isle of Val but we see a full set of overlords later on in the ARR patch series.

I do wonder how the process of creating an Asican from a reflection works. Is is something that Elidibus can do himself? Or does it take all three of the unsundered convocation members to do so? If he can't do it on his own, that would explain the added sense of urgency after Heavensward and his switch in attitude towards the WoL.

[Vyrerus]

I'm being pedantic here

Just because an Ascian post could be refilled, doesn't mean that an Ascian wasn't killed. The WoL has killed three Ascians in the MSQ, and is partially responsible for Lahabrea's death, since he weakened him to such an extent that he was powerless to resist Thordan. More Ascians added to the belt loop if you do the SMN line, as already said.

As for how folk are raised to the station, I imagine it would involve selecting a suitable, powerful individual with The Echo, and then bringing them before Elidibus so they may be tempered by Zodiark or bestowed the knowledge and power that befits their station.

[MrThinker]

Just because an Ascian post could be refilled, doesn't mean that an Ascian wasn't killed. The WoL has killed three Ascians in the MSQ, and is partially responsible for Lahabrea's death, since he weakened him to such an extent that he was powerless to resist Thordan. More Ascians added to the belt loop if you do the SMN line, as already said.

As for how folk are raised to the station, I imagine it would involve selecting a suitable, powerful individual with The Echo, and then bringing them before Elidibus so they may be tempered by Zodiark or bestowed the knowledge and power that befits their station.

When it came to raising the shards of the original members, i believe something was said about restoring their memories as convocation members.

[Naria]

Just because an Ascian post could be refilled, doesn't mean that an Ascian wasn't killed. The WoL has killed three Ascians in the MSQ, and is partially responsible for Lahabrea's death, since he weakened him to such an extent that he was powerless to resist Thordan. More Ascians added to the belt loop if you do the SMN line, as already said.

As for how folk are raised to the station, I imagine it would involve selecting a suitable, powerful individual with The Echo, and then bringing them before Elidibus so they may be tempered by Zodiark or bestowed the knowledge and power that befits their station.

I suppose the disagreement is a matter of semantics. I don't view any shard's destruction as the same as the death of that Ascian. True death or destruction, I mean. Even if that shard is completely destroyed, the rest of that soul is still intact and it has been at best been further maimed (unless that was the very last shard). Unless destroying one shard destroys them all (maybe it does?) then only that particular aspect/shard of the Asican is gone. I mean say Ardbert's shard was killed via a blade of light, unless that act killed the player character and the other 5 shards as well, the Ascian/Amaurotine soul that they originally were would still be existent.

Edit:
If destroying one shard destroys them all, however, you'd think that the Ascian's would have weaponized that in their own favor against Warriors of Light. Hmm this is getting into a bunch of metaphysics that the game hasn't really explained yet.

[Vyrerus]

I suppose the disagreement is a matter of semantics. I don't view any shard's destruction as the same as the death of that Ascian. True death or destruction, I mean. Even if that shard is completely destroyed, the rest of that soul is still intact and it has been at best been further maimed (unless that was the very last shard). Unless destroying one shard destroys them all (maybe it does?) then only that particular aspect/shard of the Asican is gone. I mean say Ardbert's shard was killed via a blade of light, unless that act killed the player character and the other 5 shards as well, the Ascian/Amaurotine soul that they originally were would still be existent.

Edit:
If destroying one shard destroys them all, however, you'd think that the Ascian's would have weaponized that in their own favor against Warriors of Light. Hmm this is getting into a bunch of metaphysics that the game hasn't really explained yet.

When we kill Nabriales, we do not know which shard he hails from, just that he is not of The Source. He alludes to the fact that the shard based Ascians could not come to The Source prior to us losing our Blessing of Light. This implies that they had no Source counterpart for the unsundered to raise up, meaning that all that or most of what was left of their original soul was with their shard body. Of course, nothing is certain, because this idea that all souls are split across the 14 worlds just in different bodies with different minds is so relatively new. I often wonder if they remember or review their old plot points as they wrote Shadowbringers.

Of course, we are shown black masked Ascians on The Source which raises many questions. Though it's probably easily answered as nobodies who were raised to basically be Ascian servants/henchmen. I suspect that the Convocation shard members are chosen and raised up from shards that constitute the majority of the soul in question, for in my mind, it is possible that the souls were sundered unevenly. For example, perhaps no portion of certain souls reside on the 3rd, 4th, or 5th shard, but there are soul portions on every other shard, with those 3 missing ones all being constituted on one of the other shards or The Source.

[Veloran]

Nabriales doesn't say he was blocked from coming to the Source, he says he was blocked from entering the Rising Stones. In some ways that makes less sense, but no, sundered Ascians seem to come and go from the Source as they please.

[Vyrerus]

Nabriales doesn't say he was blocked from coming to the Source, he says he was blocked from entering the Rising Stones. In some ways that makes less sense, but no, sundered Ascians seem to come and go from the Source as they please.

Nabriales's exact dialogue:

"The Blessing of Light kept you and your fellow meddlers safe. It was that which prevented my kind from entering your domain."

"My kind, I say, though it had no power over the likes of Elidibus and Lahabrea. Being of this world, they could come and go as they please, while I could only look on..."

Maybe it's different in the JP text, but in English it conveys that he's talking about the realm at large.