What do you guys think is the cause of severe lack of Tank users?

[shao32]

Dps can have the appearance of the diversity it has because it’s role is simple in a party..........DEAL DAMAGE, that’s it. As long as they deal damage then it doesn’t matter how visually they do it. But to be honest their is plenty of similar abilities between them all, some sharing build up phases to short high DPS windows in order to line up with other jobs.

And? i mean what is the purpose of the tanks damage rotation right now? yes only dealt damage and that's it too, some of the DPS work around the 60s time rotation in some dregree yeah like landing his biggest attacks around those moments and others have dedicated entire burst windows to be placed there but they are not diferent of tank dps rotations in that basics, yeah tanks are more limited on the nimber of actions dedicated to that but that's not excuse to have them working the same way, whats the point to have 4 tanks at the end? if they are not diverse as dps or healers in their own mechanics then they serve no purpose and they implementation has been a waste of resourcers, for that only add skins and make the 2 originals more deep or something.

I have to disagree with this IMO, tanks from last expansions were needlessly complex to their primary job of mitigation, hate management and positioning by changing stances in order to maximise dps. But essentially the DPS took precedent over their primary role, making it hard for anyone new to do the job without the toxicity and the “git gud” quotes to starts coming through. Forum posts have been like this for yrs now, It hasn’t really changed. This happened last exp when lots of abilities got slashed to stop button bloat.
I expect next expansion the dps might see with same style of rework to certain jobs, I won’t be surprised if it does. I mean take a look at a lot of the jobs and the amount of buttons you yeh to press, especially if your on controller? Yet you want more in the next expansion so where are they gonna go?.

Essentially this game has to cater to most players and not the few, question is did it work with the changes to tanks and healers, time will tell and SE will respond if it hasn’t. Yoshi has always said if you don’t like the content or the game right now, take a break and come back when content has taken your fancy. So if tanks and healers aren’t doing it for you, go dps or try another game for a bit. Check back once 5.3 or later drops and see what’s what then.

a tank could still midmaxing his job in tank stance and only pay 20-25% of his damage at the end, dps thats not determinated so the whole hate management was overexagerated thing, specially if you team mates where casual due they could be average on they jobs and never rip agro of you if they didn't used diversion and i can tell that by my own experience and FFXIV is one of the most helpfull comunitys online, i used to love work around with less skilled tanks to help them to improve as long they wanted of course, but right now? there is no need for waste time when the game almost play for.

i play with controller, i always did and i never feel that buttom bloat, they can upgrade skills with traits instead, make skills sustitute others with being the same but with superior effects and interactions ect ect and obvously get rig of the most useless and niche ones, they are many ways, but when they slay entire unique mechanics from a job for nothing just feel awful specially if they sustituted by copy pasted ones from other jobs, one thing is keep the job gameplay identity removing outdated mechanics and sustitute with ones that fit the purpose of the job gameplay and other thing is what they did to WAR and DRK.

they didn't catter for most players with tanks or healers this expansion, the complains are there, they catter for the lower comon denominator in both roles aka players who don't really care or will stay around the game as much and mostly like to complain why isnt's everything so braind dead for they to end unsiscribing a month later forever even when it become painfully easy, now average and veterans tanks and healers complain about they state or the role, it's a fact just look around it's even in the JP forums you can check it with google translate, it's rough but handy. a game without deep and no chance to let they players invest in they fav jobs/role and get rewarded for it will lower the overall quality and thats what happen right now, one of the biggest coownsides of SHB apart of the lack of content per patch are tanks and healers gameplay.

yeah tanks aren't not doing it for me right now and thats affecting my experience of a expansion i expected to be great bcs im a fanboy of the darkness and all that stuff and now im just raiding 1 day to clear all savage turns and and wait to the next week for it bcs my static still needs me as a tank and i have a house to keep. it's been like that since the launch and things aren't going to get better bcs my experience tells me they always go cheap on tanks since always, they take 6 years to fix tank accesories for example and the tank stat it's useless for optimization as always, they take a eternity to give DRK basic buffs in SB ans same they did with PLD in HW, buffs that could be done easily die the little they need it to become good. they aren't going to do anything about it until next expansion as always and that's needs to be adressed, they are to lazy with us when x.2 patch arrives and then "lets wait for the next expansion, we missed? more luck next year and half xaxaxa".

[shao32]

You forget that there were actual riots from the Warriors that their dps was sub-optimal. There was a very large audience that flat out said that Paladin was fine because it had more mitigation in Stormblood.

This really becoming wall to wall post reply, i will try to simplified a bit ^^

PLD at the start of the expansion was OP it's a fact, not only WARs complained about it, tanks in general say it was doing to much damage and get balanced later on, when they did It the complains stoped and WAR was doing more damage than PLD but just a bit, the rate was more or less like now.

This is interesting because you also said that its fine that PLD has the "easier" rotation. You can even argue that it was harder playing a PLD because you had to be somewhat competitive in dps and at the same time keep agro which was a very difficult balance to chose between Rage of Halone your agro gainer or Royal Authority. It was in so much shambles at the time that you just didn't take anything else than a WAR and preferable 2 at the same time.

DNC is way less involved compared to most of the dps and that's ok too, that's bring diversity, having jobs for diferent audiences while being balanced it's the whole purpose of having more and more otherwise are useless additions and being less complex in how they play doesn't translate in doing less for no reason.

Regardless their oh so complex gameplay was just Fell Cleave while keeping their dmg buff up. That's not exactly challenging gameplay. They didn't have to make choices because their Fell Cleaves balanced out their agro issue that other tanks had. And lets not forget that the only trade-off they had to get was a -20% HP buff should they chose not to go into tank stance. A SCH or AST could just mitigate that easily.

WAR in HW was about they rage stacks back then and his berserk window every 90s and they did have to use they defensive skills on berserk to archive the 3 fell cleaves under the window since vengeance and thrill use to give a rage stack too and they need some stacks build before get in to berserk, compared to just hit inner release and hit 5 fell cleaves it's was way more complex, and in SB they use to manage they gauge to land 6 fell cleaves under IR before 4.2.

You can't compare DPS to Tanks, DPS just has to deal damage, but ok, its interesting that you compare BLM and SAM. There is a reason why SAM is a walking meme. Their kit has no real burst that they can use on-demand, while ShB resolved some of their issues from the previous expansion, BLM gained even more mobility putting them right below Summoners.

Where are Samurai? That's right, they are the least wanted melee dps out there.

As i mentioned to forgottenscholar the dps section of the tanks are only there to fit one purpose, damage, so there is no need to have tanks working the same there at all.

SAM is more used that BLM for example and it's highly played, my static have one and the least wanted melee it's MNK not SAM, SAM it's beautifully designed compared to what MNK is suffering right now and MNK is paying the price again for that despite being popular at the begining for doing top damage.

I mean, it's way better I don't understand why you'd consider Divine Veil to be superior. On top of it having to be a triggered by a heal, it also scales with the PLD their HP. To a measly 10%.

And then you have the warrior with 15% extra hp, ready to be buffed with other CD's that you may have...

Then you have a 15% magic damage mitigation sure, PLD has wings. Ye that's right, we can't attack when we wish to use a proper party-wide CD.

i say divine veil was not superior to shake it off, please re-read it again, you have it in your quote.

WAR shake it off shield is based on the target HP, whats means the shield will be stronger on tanks due they superior HP but less powerfull on dps and halers due inferior HP, they have to sacrified personal mitigation to buff the shield a bit wich is a nice sinergy with the rest of the skill and a nice way to manage your defensive kit.

PLD on the other hand divine veil it's based on PLD hp and aplied to the rest of the party, and if you didn't know passage of arms can be activated and deactivated and the effect will remain like 6s before disapears so they can use it easily without being forced to take take the downtime.

The moment that PLD even remotely resembled to be equal in damage to WAR or DRK the forums were rioting. So ye, for the last time, the way players see "fun" is by being able to dish out damage and class design is entirely based on how well they perform. WAR's were out of control for 2 full expansions and that's why they felt so superior in class design because they were able to do EVERYTHING without any downside.

Currently, the meta is very straightforward for tanks:

• You use cooldowns when a tank buster comes
• You mitigate the party damage with your raid CD's so players won't die
• You dish out acceptable damage while performing the required mechanics

However, should you come to a point where you are slowly out gearing the content, and your healers are aware of incoming raid-wide damage, then your raid CD's won't be necessary since an SCH can place a shield to mitigate. If you progress savage early on, or ultimate, you'll figure out sooner enough that a tank is not boring but they actually have to use their cooldowns to counter raid-wide damage and tank busters.

PLD was op in SB, have the best dps, the best mitigation and a overhelming amount of usefull utility, it's normal ppl complained about it, he become the new WAR and that's wasn't what we wanted.

i don't deny some players just play the strongest job and are not tied to a specific gameplay but others do, me for example, i played DRK all the way to SB bcs i loved the job even when it was the worst option and now im not playing It bcs i hate what they did to his gameplay despite being in a better position balanced wise, there is not only "i play the meta" players out there.

i do savage i know you will have to use reprisal and heart of light to mitigate aoes, it's as simple as mitigate TB and not only in progresion, mitigate properly make healers life more easy but takes no real effort to do that right now.

I agree it's not as bad as it used to be. But honestly, if you don't take a SMN into endgame content you are just handicapping yourself. Same goes for a NIN or DRG, and then you can take your pick from the Ranged and then you add another caster, probably a RDM after the buffs if you really want to rush prog. But ye, so much diversity.

no is not? since ever you was able to clear savage with any composition, the biggest behavior was the second tier of alexander and the devs admited they mess up with the number there.

speedruning is a thing only a really small part of the raiding comunity does, if our raiding comunity is small (if we dont count JP raiding comunity) the speedruning 1º week clear are even a great minority, most of the raiders don't care about that and even that speedruners statics are pretty diverse and diferent from each other most of the time.

No, it really doesn't matter what tank job you take these days and that's actually GOOD design. The only reason why you'd want to take a DRK atm is for their utility, and it's only marginal for Ultimate. All 4 tanks are interchangeable atm, DPS however, are not. You can finish the fight without them, but you'll make your life harder.

If you only play content that is designed to be completed by the majority of people and you only finish the content late in the tier when your party out gears the content then your slack can be picked up by the rest of the party yes. All the challenges the tank has can be picked up by another class. BUT in return, you as a good tank can also pick up the slack from the healer. Did he not use a shield? You can mitigate it for them. A dps is slacking on his job? Np, you have plenty of gear now and you dish out quite a bit more dmg then at the start. THIS IS GOOD DESIGN. Your party isn't limited anymore by the aggro build-up of your tanks or if they were able to cheese a tank buster or not.

again if we have 4 jobs that have way diferent gameplays but do around the same dps, having similar mitigation power and bring pretty much the same basic utility despite being played way diferent betwen each other is the GOOD desing, if you have 4 jobs that play almost the same and all the things i said before it's bad design overall, if you are not able to keep jobs gameplay diferent when you balanced then don't add them in the first place.

Yes, and I played SAM in a casual static last expansion. What is your point? It doesn't mean I wasn't holding my team back with my lack of utility even though I dished out the most damage.

I agree it's not as bad as it used to be. But honestly, if you don't take a SMN into endgame content you are just handicapping yourself. Same goes for a NIN or DRG, and then you can take your pick from the Ranged and then you add another caster, probably a RDM after the buffs if you really want to rush prog. But ye, so much diversity.

wich one this 2 tyou pick at the end then?.

Even so, DRK wasn't in the same spot that PLD was the expansion before that, and who took a PLD? Nobody. Viability is to what you can offer if you are progressing difficult content, SE makes a point of making all content accessible for all classes and they are 100% right to homogenize if they can't get the balance right which they've been trying very hard to do. Simple buffs and nerfs didn't cut it because the class design was just to viable compared to others. That's why you often saw the good old WAR/PLD - NIN/DRG/BRD/SMN - and then depending on which patch the better healers.

my co-tank picked PLD bcs it was and still is fun.
idk how many times i have to repeat my self, yes you can buffed to make it more desirable and thats doesnt have to sacrified gameplay diversity, homogenization of numbers not execution.

Ok. If the content isn't accessible people will just flock to different games, look at Wildstar with their catering to the hardcore players. The charm of FFXIV is that it caters to casual players. Ultimate is prestige content atm, not savage.

and 99% of the game reflect that, extremes, dungeons, crafting, tribes, goldsaucer, ect ect ect all of that it's for casuals, only savage an ultimate are for the ones that want to take the battle system to the next level and now it's lame, we dont need a 100% of the game catered to casuals when they didn't even use to care about most of it.

A party was limited by its quality of tanks. Unless the tank could keep their agro alive while dealing the necessary damage to kill the boss, severely limited the accessibility into the role. Anyone could pick up a tank, but tanking a raid boss? That was vastly more challenging than playing a dps. This is bad design.

thats the point of hard content, if DPS dont play they vastly more complex dps rotations we fail, if healers din't manage their heals and shields we dies, tanks wasnt as hard, they mechanics was always simple and mitigation was as brain dead as now just pop up 2 CDs and roll out, this statements are exagerated and savage was always about mastered your job and succeed on the content, the JP player base never have a problem with that why the western ones need to have a proble?.

Nobody is argue'ing that tanks shouldn't be challenging, they still are mind if you actually get into actual challenging content like early into savages before you out gear it or Ultimates. Tanks are now expected to help mitigate damage on the party, something that IS part of their Job description and class design. They aren't just there to make agro so the party can dps. And that agro part is so outdated, people are happy it's gone. And that's also the reason why tanks their kit look a bit more empty because their agro rotation disappeared. But hey, it must be different being expected to press a CD on queue instead of a Fell Cleave.

tanks mitigate raid damage since HW, reprisal (exclusive to DRK), storm path (10% damage mitigation), divine veil exist since there, this is nothing new to the role at all, compared to now we are doing way less with agro, way less with mitigation (we have to much tools right now and to powerful savage TB are mostly a joke right now sometimes i take cero damage on shiva) less involved dps rotations (except for PLD) and we don't even care about boss position since they always jump to the preferance position almost every mechanic.


anyway sorry for the double post and the wall, i end doing it bigger ^^

[HeulGDarian]

Nobody is argue'ing that tanks shouldn't be challenging, they still are mind if you actually get into actual challenging content like early into savages before you out gear it or Ultimates. Tanks are now expected to help mitigate damage on the party, something that IS part of their Job description and class design. They aren't just there to make agro so the party can dps. And that agro part is so outdated, people are happy it's gone. And that's also the reason why tanks their kit look a bit more empty because their agro rotation disappeared. But hey, it must be different being expected to press a CD on queue instead of a Fell Cleave.

Are you willingly blind to what the guy i responded to just wrote? listen bud i dont care if they got party dmg mitigation ,reprisal has been in the game forever in fact you knew when a tank was new or with wether he used reprisal on bosses . Agro was not outdated it was fleshed out as much as it could possibly be , it was responsibility of the whole party with tanks having the biggest part in it. A good tank who mastered it would be able to get more dps out , a mediocre could coordinate with their team and get some more dps out and a new one didnt have to care because you could just have tank stance on the whole time. But besides aggro and stuff Since when does battle difficulty equals to job difficulty? i can go in as smn learn a savage fight then come in as a rdm and still know how to do the run cause i mastered the fight, i cant go learn smn and immediately be a god rdm. Also the reason their kit looks empty isnt just cause their aggro combo disappeared , They removed 3 role class skills that nobody was using they said even though everyone did, Convalescense , ultimatum and the 20% parry one, they removed all stance dependant abilities something which made current war an utter joke , They consolidated other abilities like bulwark and sheltron and drk was flat out reworked into the same thing as war . So you have war and drk gutted out of abilities , PLD the guy who is supposed to be the tankiest with lots of cooldowns so that new players dont die is now lacking in cooldowns with new sheltron being an atrocity and gnb is more of a dps than a tank.So no i dont care how outdated you think agro managament was, removing and then not replacing it with anything killed the tank role.

[Mikey_R]

Why should a tanks ability to stay in DPS stance be dependant on the DPS using abilities like diversion and lucid? Why should I, as a tank, have to forgo damage and rotational fluidity just because a DPS didn't use Diversion? It is punishing the tank for the lack of skills from a DPS, which just sounds horrible.

It's alright to say the DPS will use Diversion/Lucid, but you can only guarantee that in Savage/Ultimate. Go into normal dungeons and raids and you have no guarantee that the DPS would be kind enough to use them. You can say, well, it doesn't matter if you have to stay in tank stance, but it still feels terrible knowing you could do more but you are being held back by a DPS's lack of ability to use 1 ability.

The way to solve this is of course to take away the enmity management from DPS (and healers) and have it placed solely on the tanks, which is what we have now.

This solves the issue of a tanks performance being tied completely to the skill of the dps and puts it back into the control of the tanks. It also means you can make proper rotations that allow the jobs to flow better and not have to consider whether they might have to use that enmity combo and destroy that fluidity for the rest of the fight. In my honest opinion, the system they have put in place for enmity has only improved the tank role and I personally see no downsides to it. If you want to say the lack of any sort of enmity threat from a DPS is a downside, then that is your opinion. I just fail to see it with all the problems it poses.

[HeulGDarian]

Why should a tanks ability to stay in DPS stance be dependant on the DPS using abilities like diversion and lucid? Why should I, as a tank, have to forgo damage and rotational fluidity just because a DPS didn't use Diversion? It is punishing the tank for the lack of skills from a DPS, which just sounds horrible.

It's alright to say the DPS will use Diversion/Lucid, but you can only guarantee that in Savage/Ultimate. Go into normal dungeons and raids and you have no guarantee that the DPS would be kind enough to use them. You can say, well, it doesn't matter if you have to stay in tank stance, but it still feels terrible knowing you could do more but you are being held back by a DPS's lack of ability to use 1 ability.

The way to solve this is of course to take away the enmity management from DPS (and healers) and have it placed solely on the tanks, which is what we have now.

This solves the issue of a tanks performance being tied completely to the skill of the dps and puts it back into the control of the tanks. It also means you can make proper rotations that allow the jobs to flow better and not have to consider whether they might have to use that enmity combo and destroy that fluidity for the rest of the fight. In my honest opinion, the system they have put in place for enmity has only improved the tank role and I personally see no downsides to it. If you want to say the lack of any sort of enmity threat from a DPS is a downside, then that is your opinion. I just fail to see it with all the problems it poses.

why end to that with that kind of logic . lets remove any dps buff from astro and make it exclusive to dps roles since a bad astro can just spend the fight only funneling their buddy . lets remove all raid aoe mitigation and give it to the tanks ,why should dps have addle and feint when a tank could have them oh and dont forget about shields, lets also remove the raise smn and rdm has why should they have them it should be healer exclusive .oh and ofc how could i forget we should remove clemency and aurora cause it should be healer only responsibility . well ill tell you why because a dps not using diversion didnt mean jack to a good tank , a warriors pull back then was inner release plus fell cleave and then kept dpsing , PLD had the weakest aggro generation which is why he was usually ot but even then a provoke and shirk helped a guy keep the boss on them . You say why should your performance be gimped by a dps not using diversion , my reply to this is it wasnt gimped if you were good, instead if you had problems doing the dps stance changing min max they could help you do it . Good old team effort.

[Mikey_R]

Yes, good old team effort helps, if the other play in the team. You play with randoms and you have no guarantee they will help you out except with the bare minimum. Your whole argument revolves around everyone being a team player, everyone contributing and playing to their best performance, but that just isn't the case. This is why I specifically mentioned content that was not savage or ultimate, as this is where you are most likely to hit these roadblocks.

You also never addressed the issue of a tanks rotation being completely messed up just by having to replace 1 combo with an enmity combo. Going back to Sb PLD, if you replaced any of your Royal Authority combos with an enmity combo, you were not going to have the MP for your requiescat window guaranteed. Not to mention in the current PLD rotation, there is no room for an enmity combo without messing everything up completely.

Then Tank stances, in SB, PLD and DRK had to use up a GCD and MP to turn on tank stance, then PLD had to use another to switch back to Sword Oath, DRK had to delay their GCD it it could only be turned off when your GCD was off cooldown. You can change the stances so that they are all oGCD like warrior, sure, but that leads to discrepancies with the tanks. An instant 20% damage mitigation from turning on tank stance as opposed to 25% extra HP, but you needed to be healed first before you could benefit from it.

I haven't even touched on the gearing problem. Low geared tank, high geared DPS, tank has to stay in tank stance to keep aggro. This then isn't an issue of a tank or DPS not doing their job right, this is a pure you are being punished because you have a lower ilevel than the DPS. And don't say they should be better geared, the reason they are in the dungeon is to get better gear.

These are issues that need addressing, that I'm sure many would agree with. If all you can say on the matter is, the team just needs to get good, then you miss the point completely.

[Lammas]

I haven't even touched on the gearing problem. Low geared tank, high geared DPS, tank has to stay in tank stance to keep aggro. This then isn't an issue of a tank or DPS not doing their job right, this is a pure you are being punished because you have a lower ilevel than the DPS. And don't say they should be better geared, the reason they are in the dungeon is to get better gear.

And on the other side of the coin if you're the DPS that's outgears the tank and they don't spend all of their time in tank stance and spam extra enmity combos the only thing you can do to avoid getting aggro is to just stop doing anything.

[HeulGDarian]

Yes, good old team effort helps, if the other play in the team. You play with randoms and you have no guarantee they will help you out except with the bare minimum. Your whole argument revolves around everyone being a team player, everyone contributing and playing to their best performance, but that just isn't the case. This is why I specifically mentioned content that was not savage or ultimate, as this is where you are most likely to hit these roadblocks.

You also never addressed the issue of a tanks rotation being completely messed up just by having to replace 1 combo with an enmity combo. Going back to Sb PLD, if you replaced any of your Royal Authority combos with an enmity combo, you were not going to have the MP for your requiescat window guaranteed. Not to mention in the current PLD rotation, there is no room for an enmity combo without messing everything up completely.

Then Tank stances, in SB, PLD and DRK had to use up a GCD and MP to turn on tank stance, then PLD had to use another to switch back to Sword Oath, DRK had to delay their GCD it it could only be turned off when your GCD was off cooldown. You can change the stances so that they are all oGCD like warrior, sure, but that leads to discrepancies with the tanks. An instant 20% damage mitigation from turning on tank stance as opposed to 25% extra HP, but you needed to be healed first before you could benefit from it.

I haven't even touched on the gearing problem. Low geared tank, high geared DPS, tank has to stay in tank stance to keep aggro. This then isn't an issue of a tank or DPS not doing their job right, this is a pure you are being punished because you have a lower ilevel than the DPS. And don't say they should be better geared, the reason they are in the dungeon is to get better gear.

These are issues that need addressing, that I'm sure many would agree with. If all you can say on the matter is, the team just needs to get good, then you miss the point completely.

The thing is if it isnt a lack of experience and just laziness yes youre screwed , but promoting a gameplay where you can be lazy like the current one doesnt help out that situation.

Ill admit that i didnt address the fcking up rotations part , I cant go give 100% proof on that you wont get fcked up, the only thing i can say is that they could have put more effort to flesh out those combos so that they arent punishing you.

The warrior having a different stance didnt stop him from being the main tank, And if you have problem with having to use mana on the other 2 then id rather it didnt have mana than how it is now.

The low gearing issue again a dps can help you by just hitting diversion , ill go ahead and say that i still find tanks unable to keep aggro ,and even when he doesnt and you have to use tank stance in dungeons to get your gear. You would ruin a whole system just so you dont have to use Tank stance for 6-12 dungeons?Im not saying you need to get good thats not my point. All im saying is that having aggro as something the whole team has a say in it means that they can help you when you need them to , Not only that it allowed for a much better skill expression . In comparison current system removed any kind of skill expression from the role ,while people can still fuck it up and they do , and the tank role has officially been turned into dps with a CLICK TO TANK button. Youre not forced between having to choose dps or tank you now dps and tanking is the side thought.

Ill tell you what i want out of the tank role , I want to be able to do more tanking something that aggro management was , i want the job to not be judged by how good dps it does but by how good it can tank , Dps should be the afterthought not the tanking. When a pld has a problem with cooldowns and a good dps rotation while a war has a boring dps rotation and no problem solo cooldowning a job then you have to admit that something fcked up . Well to me that something was the removal of the aggro system.

[HeulGDarian]

And on the other side of the coin if you're the DPS that's outgears the tank and they don't spend all of their time in tank stance and spam extra enmity combos the only thing you can do to avoid getting aggro is to just stop doing anything.

you could hit diversion and as a last option you could hit lucid

[Lammas]

you could hit diversion and as a last option you could hit lucid

I don't think you quite grasp just how bad it could get at times.

You can have ridiculous differences between players average itemlevels in this game. The minimum entry and max before sync can be dozens of average item levels. That's huuuuuge.
You can hit diversion on burst, it goes on 2 minute cooldown, and then you'll still pull aggro eventually unless the tank takes a double bullet of turning stance back and sitting in it for the rest of the fight and also spamming multiple extra aggro combos.

I've been on both sides of that.
Multiple times as a BRD taking aggro from a tanks with both aggro dumps used when ripping.
As a DRK catching up on gear unable to keep aggro from BLMs with Diversion and Lucid on cooldown.
Also saw multiple other people either ripping and getting punched to death or realizing their only option and holstering their weapon and just sitting down.

And this is just the item level difference portion of the problem with the old system.

I wouldn't mind aggro being somehow relevant but between the old system and the current one where aggro is just granted, I'll pick this current one any day of the week.