New Job Necromancer

[Crushnight]

I think this just makes the job more appealing to players and perhaps it's done on purpose. Sometimes feel like they put those necromancy references to hype up the job.

Have we actually seen a real necromancer ourselves in this game? I barely remember where the necromancer references were tbh but I do remember the general vibe they were given.

I remember some characters who were necromancer-ish but as far as I'm aware they aren't actually the "necromancers" that's refered to in lore. This just makes me think there's an even bigger chance they may keep the potential reveal with a job announcement.

Idk much about the lore though so I might be missing the mark completely.

And btw aren't summoners also still frowned upon?

Nybeth Oblilord from PotD is a necromancer, summoning undead (and you know their undead because Kiribu hurts them significantly while also making them disappear permanently), his goals ain't horrendously evil, just wanting to prevent death but he was willing to do it by any means, Edda was just another experiment to him, she died in Tam-Tara Deepcroft but her spirit was taken by Nybeth to do his bidding furthering his research, we set her spirit free when we kill the puppet form of Edda on floor 50.

The whole thing is frowned upon heavily, bare in mind while not necromancy, doing the exact same thing of using a dead body to call forth a voidsent slave is abhorrent to the people of Eorzea so using the dead in any shape or form without their consent is going to be heavily lore breaking for the WoL to be.

You can have a Necromancer esque job but it has to do away with forced servitude of any kind (skeletons/zombies etc) or anything that can be perceived as desicrating the dead, think more Shaman/Shrine Priestess than Necromancer and at that point it ain't Necromancer.

As for Summoners they were reviled in the 3rd Astral era due to some of them using their powers for their selfish desires (the few ruining it for the all) and people got it into their heads that anyone learning to be summoner is going to be evil.

The lv50-60 questline tackles this history repeating again with Tristan's brother, who was dead btw (killed by Tristan's hand sending him down the path of Evil Summoner for lv30-50 questline) and 'revived' as an Ascian pawn, so there you go another Necromancer, Ascians.

You could argue Ellie from Hildabrand may have been a necromancer as she commanded zombies to attack you but you could also argue it were the trinkets or a side effect of the Trader's spurn that allowed her to be able to control them. Whoever created those zombies that found Hildabrand were 100% necromancers as they all had glowing tattoos this is clear forced servitude.

No matter how you look at it for necromancer to be a job it will be a far harder challenge for the writers than anything else to not contradict existing belief laws the game currently has.

[Shougun]

For lore you can do a lot of interesting things to make it work yet still feel wrong. I like using Blue Mage in FFXI as an example for this sometimes, you basically break and doom yourself in that job quest- part of it is 'unwilling' which adds to it not being like "our hero is nuts". Willing in so much that you chose to take on the job, but they don't exactly describe how you are going to take on that job until after the process.

(Vague ShB spoiler) Another closer to home reference is what the player has to do in ShB. Walking nuke ready to flatten the town at the slightest nudge. (/Vague ShB spoiler)

So our job quest to obtain dark powers, could very well be like that. Like you're just minding your own business when a quirky void monster who has been trapped for a long while and doesn't know what is going on (groggy, just woke up, drunk waking up) sets upon you like you're some newborn babe, they're particularly skilled void demon and are able to bring you into the void unlike most creatures, but clearly made a horrible mistake taking one of the greatest warriors on- in the scuffle of being brought to their void area you are able to grab a trinket off their body. Here you have to fight off wave after wave of void monsters while they chatter in the background, going from haughty and confident to worried and scared, unable to leave the void pocket they brought you to because it's their home domain (don't want to abandon their home) and because they were sloppy you are holding onto a trinket that they're bound to from a long ago magic of binding they escape from (by carrying it around on their person). After clearing out that void area and very tired you wander around an ancient and broken part of the void this demon has claimed (like the raid area except this is a new place), solving some riddles you find the demon who tries one last trick by marking you and trying to command you. It doesn't work, but it does have some effect. Perhaps left alone for so long and kept asleep was due to their extra mischievous and perhaps back stabby nature- such that they were even lulled to a deep magical sleep by other void demons at a party tired of his shenanigans (can add some humor to it, maybe some relationship to dark cloud for extra fun XD). After a little bit more wandering around you find the demon who dragged you in, also weakened from you batting away all their attacks, riddles, and cantrips, is being attacked by other demons who were alerted to his wakening (perhaps the same ones who attacked you- him mistaking them as allies in the beginning, so friend to neither them or you)- in order to prevent you being tossed into the pure void (if his domain collapses at his death) you decide to help them (as they at least threatened as much if you don't help and they die). Once you've saved them they see they've no allies and decide to change that, in a sort of willing (not really) relationship you gain a familiar who will allow you to return a binding mark (no longer one way) and grants you access to the void where you can speak to them and help restore their void for more power (their void area having fallen into significant disarray and shrunk quite a bit). You can choose to leave and not mark them, and they'll make a sly comment about their mark falling off you... maybe.. probably.. and that you're free to return if you change your mind.

You can also choose to kill them which will collapse the void space and cause you to be found on the shore of some beach somewhere- very lucky to be alive, after sometime the demon will come back and you can have a nightmare at the inn if you touch the trinket quest item before going to sleep (causing you to wake up back in their realm, because they never actually removed the mark). The trinket remains in your possession too, ultimately the quest lets you choose to ignore the option or decide to mark the demon back to at least gain equal footing and hear them out further. If you decide to mark them due to your unique composition (you're no normal person) when you bind back onto them they change their desires a little bit, they still are sly, still want to expand their void domain, but their desire to eat people drops and the become fascinated with aether infused food like food made with passion- leading to funny things like them LOVING this very burnt but lovingly made food a couple made for their anniversary (just a burnt rock of nasty, and the demon thinks it's the best thing they've ever had). Another change is they'll feel satisfied easily so while they pretend to still be pure evil and insatiable some of the things you help them with they just set aside or don't finish (store room of food, just treasure collected in their food domain). Sometimes in a quest they might make comments on how tasty people look, but at one point in a quest you might find them hovering by a kid who was pushed over and instead of trying to get a nibble while you weren't looking they scare the kid's bully away by appearing temporarily and going back invisible- then making a comment how you've ruined them and they detest you so for changing them (but in love hate sort of way). Part of these changes can be because of how you're filled with light and so being bound by a being of light is not quite the standard union, that and you're blessed lol - maybe some elements of them being a very social demon and while hiding it for most of the quest chains are quite bothered that they were tricked into a slumber just so demons didn't have to be near them (and so a willing person is a new feeling that they constantly wrestle with themselves if they want to take advantage of but ultimately find the company worth more than another millennia alone or worse). So a unique part of the job might be going into the void with a shield from the void demon and coming back with artifacts, helping restore his domain like Doman Restoration project- maybe a few items to purchase after certain stages are built up (nothing too crazy but cute enough to feel like it's more than just a visual change, like those who work for him (and in a sense for you too) start to become affected as well, and after getting so much food as you make a deal with chiefs in training in the real world, and unlocking space in his domain that he opens up an area serving the food to other demons at a demon cafe which reduces some of the demons going out to hurt humans, food and protection provided to those willing to help expand the domain- burnt croissant for a table of 3 imps).

Now obviously I started to get a bit silly near the end but I think it could go that way (imps are kind of goofy, and I think it would be fun to see void demons more in their own element and how their weird civilization might be getting along); however, it could also remain entirely serious- which I also think would be interesting. Besides Dark Knight which is a dark quest line lots of people loved you could also make a horror inspired job questline and that'd be pretty new to FFXIV (so like Eda content but for an entire job).

Also I think it could be fun to have a quippy Fernehalwe-- I mean void demon as a job trainer , like Mort from Planescape Torment (the floating skull). Alternatively you can also go even further down the route of not entirely on purpose, like still being assaulted by the void demon and due some stuff that's happened to you in ShB while you were able to fight them off were infected as their last dying curse and infused / infected by void magic, something that was intended to kill you but because of your status is going to take a lot longer and potentially be far more dangerous for others around you. This is where learning to use the corruption allows you to ensure you don't accidentally flare out and touch someone with the void- giving reason that you do the job so you don't hurt others (but you learned the skill not by being "please diablos grant me strength, I will torture your enemies- much love, your boi shouga") which of course I think people would have a harder time accepting as logical hero lore lol.

Although all that said, and that I'm in full support of a dark job (void/corruption/playing with serious fire concepts) I would caution stuff like skeletons lol. Even though you can get lore that I think will make sense how it happened I can't imagine NPCs being chill if you were able to summon their grandma's bones next to them XD. So I can definitely see curses, soul magic, void magic, and stuff like that because NPCs might not even fully understand how you did that and think "it looks evil but this person is clearly good and saving my life so maybe it's just a black mage spell.. I don't know.. scathe?... oh well" (like a dark knight's magic looks), but if you called a skeleton in front of them.. it's going to be way more obvious in the sense of if you imagined the npc was a real person that even if they're a magical fool that they'd know what you were doing is 'call 911 right now' lol.

Anyway I think they can easily get creative in ways to make a dark / forbidden job, just have to also make it something that is worth it (necromancer, void mage, witch, I've seen lots of ideas and I think they're all pretty interesting in terms of potential). Personally would love to see a transformation job that is that sort of dark theme'd (harmonixer from shadow hearts, Dante from devil may cry, Vincent from FFVII, even Terra Bradford which is less dark but still pretty neat theme'd).

[BasicBlake]

Yoshi P once mentioned he liked the idea of making an Eastern 'Onmyoji' status-related caster DPS job.
The in game lore of this is kinda along the lines of Geomancy/Onmyoji being similar to the Conjury/Thaumaturgy dichotomy.
It's a somewhat forbidden branch of blood magic involving sacrifices and whatnot.

While I doubt it could work as a status mage in XIV's current climate, I could see it working as a dark mage.
Although I'd personally prefer Geomancer to give us spells like Quake and Tornado.

Wasn't the interview a bit more cut and dry than that? He told an interviewer they had an Eastern Style Onmyoji caster they had worked on but couldn't perfect it, so they pushed it aside for red mage. Then the interviewer asked "Like Oracle?" and Yoshi said yes. I think that is where the community assumed status mage, but that would be a whole new role for the franchise.

Also Onmyoji isn't somewhat forbidden, it's is full on outlawed. That is why they cross the see to Othard in the one chain of FATES because they hope that with what just happened between Doma and the empire they can get away with their magic while people are otherwise occupied. But like I always say in Geomancer threads, they really are so all over the place in the story and lore for the two counterparts of the Geo/Ony thing that who even knows. Because the whole Geomancer story comes into Ony issues with the blood sacrifice needed for the barrier, and Kyokohu using water to heal while the translation in Swallows Compass talk about Earth being the healing element etc.

Also their balancing of darkness and light I think was further moved to the new (at the time) red mage (the balancing of black and white mana instead). I do really hope they just merge Ony and Geo to give us the Quake 'Nado combo though.

In regards to everyone else,
To get a true "edgy" darkness type class I think the lore and story team would really have to jump through some hoops to implement anything

[Theodric]

The Warrior of Light has already canonically engaged in a form of 'necromancy'. A couple of relic quest stages involve absorbing the souls/aether of sentient beings in order to empower the relic weapon which is then, potentially, used to cut down the loved ones and comrades of those very same sentient beings. There's quite a number of examples of the Warrior of Light and their allies doing things that they claim are 'unforgivable' when somebody else does it, so I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to introduce a job that leans on darker, more dubious magic.

[TeraRamis]

God I hope not. The last thing this game needs is another 'mage' variant.

[Crushnight]

The Warrior of Light has already canonically engaged in a form of 'necromancy'. A couple of relic quest stages involve absorbing the souls/aether of sentient beings in order to empower the relic weapon which is then, potentially, used to cut down the loved ones and comrades of those very same sentient beings. There's quite a number of examples of the Warrior of Light and their allies doing things that they claim are 'unforgivable' when somebody else does it, so I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to introduce a job that leans on darker, more dubious magic.

It's not a stretch it is just harder to write for than most other jobs, considering what Gridania, Ishgard, Ul'Dah, Ala Mhigo beliefs are like with the dead, necromancer would need very very careful writing or these city states would abandon you quickly despite the good you do.

Their culture doesn't allow desicrating the dead(Zenos freaking Zenos was given an unmarked grave so no one would desicrate him) so no skeletons, no zombies, nothing that would interact with a dead body in any shape or form, this leaves you with spirits/spectres as a necromancer, such spirits would have to give you consent to use them as power or you run into the same problem.

It would take careful writing to not be a base breaker, and as we know job quests are divided amongst the writers so i'm going to ask would you trust the one who writes for Pld/Ast/Brd? Or just the one who writes for Drk? We don't get to pick and atm for the necromancer job I would only trust the Drk writer to handle it with the care it needs.

As for the relic souls thing, idk , is it stated to be a canonical thing or just something a side questline deals in but is not referenced ever again thus could be construde as non canonical if someone wills it. For my character yes for others no sort of thing, or a this is always true no matter what scenerio.

[Stepjam]

I think this just makes the job more appealing to players and perhaps it's done on purpose. Sometimes feel like they put those necromancy references to hype up the job.

Have we actually seen a real necromancer ourselves in this game? I barely remember where the necromancer references were tbh but I do remember the general vibe they were given.

I remember some characters who were necromancer-ish but as far as I'm aware they aren't actually the "necromancers" that's refered to in lore. This just makes me think there's an even bigger chance they may keep the potential reveal with a job announcement.

Idk much about the lore though so I might be missing the mark completely.

And btw aren't summoners also still frowned upon?

Palace of the dead has two necromancer boss fights, neither character is portrayed that well.

Edit: Well Edda is somewhat sympathetically portrayed but more because of what she's been through, not because of the necromancy. The necromancy is not treated well.

Also I seem to remember that the Shadows of Mhach minions say something about necromancy being a hangable crime.

[Theodric]

As for the relic souls thing, idk , is it stated to be a canonical thing or just something a side questline deals in but is not referenced ever again thus could be construde as non canonical if someone wills it. For my character yes for others no sort of thing, or a this is always true no matter what scenerio.

It's canon. The vast majority of side content in the game is canon. The lore books also actively detail and reference the NPC's involved in the relic quests and the weapons that are forged.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

Palace of the dead has two necromancer boss fights, neither character is portrayed that well.

Edit: Well Edda is somewhat sympathetically portrayed but more because of what she's been through, not because of the necromancy. The necromancy is not treated well.

Also I seem to remember that the Shadows of Mhach minions say something about necromancy being a hangable crime.

White mage job a necromancer that is rlly depressing

[Stepjam]

I didn't know that white mages had the ability to turn decapitated heads into flying monsters