Proposed [6.0] RDM Actions

[Payotz]

I don't think you should put too much stock into the FFXIV subreddit. These are likely most of the same people who only started playing the job because someone on the internet told them it's good for lazy people who don't want to push buttons.

He's not talking about the main subreddit. He's talking about ffxivdiscussion, which is a better subreddit made for discussions.

[Cled-cat]

Great read! Totally would love Verwater/blizzard, and getting a DoT combo to alternate with would make the melee combo that bit more engaging!

[Jirah]

I agree completely that RDM needs some evolution it was of of the many jobs to remain the same but is so far the only one stagnating rivaling MCH in terms of simplicity but even that job juggles more. I adore these well thought out breakdowns and makes me look forward to see if some jobs will continue to stagnate or not

[gumas]

i like rdm, but iam not really "feeling" their playstyle right now, hope change a little later in the future.

in my view, i always think the way rdm work is that you generate white mana by using melee attack and black mana when casting magic. that way their play style is more "mixed" compare to now cast-cast-cast-mana dump combo-repeat

[Archwizard]

Aight, breaking it down -

PROS:

• New oGCD skills that increase Mana generation
• Verblizzard and Verwater have bonuses on spells of the OPPOSITE Mana-type, encouraging weaving and conscious decision-making
• More interaction with Enchanted Moulinet to create a semi-"finisher" for AoE that accelerates the AoE rotation
• An attempt at a branching melee combo to satisfy players who want more melee play
• A tool to burn off a spare proc before Verholy/Verflare if necessary
• Capstone skill isn't just another add-on to the end of a melee combo
• Purely adding onto the existing system, showing it can be expanded upon without being completely rewritten

CONS:

• The Enchantment Gauge relies on the melee combo in order to activate a combo branch. Presently melee combos occur every ~40 sec on average, meaning it can take around 80 sec to generate Schielhau; while this is slightly accelerated by Verwater or Verblizzard once a minute, no comment is made on whether Schielhau is also meant to generate Verflare/Verholy/Scorch (though I would assume it doesn't), which means that it can actually slow down Mana generation significantly on each use, netting even at best or resulting in fewer melee combos per fight.
• Thanks to the above, and the prerequisite of a full melee combo before activation, the DoT placed by Schielhau will have low uptime.
• Also also, if the Enchantment Gauge is cleared on death like the Balance Gauge is, we'll run into the same issue as the old Dreadwyrm Aether rotation that plagued SMN in SB, requiring an absurd build-up with an extreme reset penalty.
• Enjolt Balestra rips off both procs if they happen to be active simultaneously going into a melee combo, for rather low potency gain for the second proc consumed.
• You'll need to pool extra Enchantment Gauge to take advantage of Chant du Cynge and Schielhau in a single rotation, and since Chant du Cynge replaces Riposte during Manafication, it creates a mandatory Enchantment Gauge barrier to entry to the combo with Manafication active. So if you missed Enjolt Balestra in the opener, you just wasted Manafication completely...

[Morningstar1337]

• I would rather go the whole 9 yards if we're going the Mystic Knight hybrid route. Perhaps have Balestra brand an En spell based on the last Ver-attack used instead of the Verfire/Stone procs. But (and admit I might had missed it) there is the matter of what does the melee skills DO under the en-buffs. I would propose tying the en buffs to the melee skills and have them use up the mana opposite of the element's school (for example E. Reprise would use only 5. Black Mana under Enaero) opening up another way of using the melee combo, and helping with balancing if you leaned too heavily onto one side.
• Regarding Embolden. I would rather make it more powerful, but not a party-wide effect, freeing up party comps while keeping the flavor. (and Dragon Sight and Closed Position set a precedent)
• Verwater/Blizzard is a good idea. nothing more can be said there.
• I would actually propose merging Corps-a-corps and Displacement or Displacement and Engagement into a distance sensitive button, that would free up room and let the RDM know that the button would be used for moving closer or further from mobs.

[Mansion]

• I would actually propose merging Corps-a-corps and Displacement or Displacement and Engagement into a distance sensitive button, that would free up room and let the RDM know that the button would be used for moving closer or further from mobs.

I can see a problem here, if you are dumping oGCDs during your melee combo, you would backflip in between melee hits. That'd be unfortunate.

I don't think there are real button bloat problems with RDM, especially now that verHoly/Flare proc on Aero/Thunder. ( And I actually kept my old binds so I have two times VerThunder and VerAero because I can't get my muscle memory out!).

I agree that three oGCDS for movement is a bit too much, but they are well incorporated in the flow of the job. Perhaps based on your idea, having the same button for Corps à Corps and Engagement could work, and keep Displacement as a separate one. There is also the option of taking out the potency of Displacement, but I don't really like this one.
I still think Engagement was overkill. I'd rather have holding Displacement less punishing DPS wise, but still rewarding to use. (Having charges on these oGCD could work fine I guess).

[Archwizard]

I can see a problem here, if you are dumping oGCDs during your melee combo, you would backflip in between melee hits. That'd be unfortunate.

I don't think there are real button bloat problems with RDM, especially now that verHoly/Flare proc on Aero/Thunder. ( And I actually kept my old binds so I have two times VerThunder and VerAero because I can't get my muscle memory out!).

I agree that three oGCDS for movement is a bit too much, but they are well incorporated in the flow of the job. Perhaps based on your idea, having the same button for Corps à Corps and Engagement could work, and keep Displacement as a separate one. There is also the option of taking out the potency of Displacement, but I don't really like this one.
I still think Engagement was overkill. I'd rather have holding Displacement less punishing DPS wise, but still rewarding to use. (Having charges on these oGCD could work fine I guess).

With regards to that, I have two proposals.

The first, is that Corps à Corps and Displacement still get merged into one button, but instead of being distance sensitive, using Corps à Corps opens a window (say, 15-20 sec) where it transforms into Displacement. Displacement gets a reduced CD, but is reworked so that you always move back to the position you used the initial Corps à Corps from, similarly to Between the Lines.
This largely resolves the issue of backflipping off ledges, and if you decide to weave oGCDs during the combo, you can prevent flipping out of melee. You can keep the reward of Displacement, or offload the damage onto Corps à Corps. Then you can nix Engagement completely, freeing two buttons (which works great if we're discussing the addition of Verwater/Verblizzard anyway). Perhaps instead of Engagement, you get a trait to Corps à Corps so that during the Displacement window, you get increased mitigation or an absorption barrier, just to facilitate the temporary Melee transformation.

Alternately, turn Engagement into a point-blank AoE attack, so that it has an actual use beyond just "I can't Displace right now." As an AoE you can justify the lower damage it gets per target compared to Displacement.
This, of course, doesn't resolve the alleged button bloat aspect.

[Mansion]

With regards to that, I have two proposals.

The first, is that Corps à Corps and Displacement still get merged into one button, but instead of being distance sensitive, using Corps à Corps opens a window (say, 15-20 sec) where it transforms into Displacement. Displacement gets a reduced CD, but is reworked so that you always move back to the position you used the initial Corps à Corps from, similarly to Between the Lines.
This largely resolves the issue of backflipping off ledges, and if you decide to weave oGCDs during the combo, you can prevent flipping out of melee. You can keep the reward of Displacement, or offload the damage onto Corps à Corps. Then you can nix Engagement completely, freeing two buttons (which works great if we're discussing the addition of Verwater/Verblizzard anyway). Perhaps instead of Engagement, you get a trait to Corps à Corps so that during the Displacement window, you get increased mitigation or an absorption barrier, just to facilitate the temporary Melee transformation.

Alternately, turn Engagement into a point-blank AoE attack, so that it has an actual use beyond just "I can't Displace right now." As an AoE you can justify the lower damage it gets per target compared to Displacement.
This, of course, doesn't resolve the alleged button bloat aspect.

Of course it could work. But based on your idea of Displacement putting you back where you used Corps à Corps, it can still be problematic. Moving platforms (Eden 3), a particular mechanic (landing in someones tethered orb, landing in an AoE that wasn't there before). Let's face it, there is no real solution to this problem other than the original intended use of Displacement, which was "use it carefully". The addition of Engagement cut this part of the gameplay because it makes holding Displacement a heavier DPS loss than what it used to be (or at least I think).
Perhaps 15 yalms is just too much, and it should be reduced to 8-10 yalms too!

[Archwizard]

Of course it could work. But based on your idea of Displacement putting you back where you used Corps à Corps, it can still be problematic. Moving platforms (Eden 3), a particular mechanic (landing in someones tethered orb, landing in an AoE that wasn't there before).

I mean yeah, but those are exactly issues that it would have had under original Displacement anyway, and are inherent to any gap-opener movement skill; if you don't check where you're gonna land, you'll probably die. The only true solution to that is simply to not have a gap-opener skill in the first place, which I vehemently disagree with removing from a primary ranged job like RDM. Meanwhile, having a large window on when to hit it at least gives you leeway on how long you can hold it after CaC.

Though as has been pointed out to me, an alternative to this would be to simply have a Combo Action or buff given by CaC that makes the next Displacement within 15-20 sec send you to the spot CaC was used, even if the two buttons remain separate for the rare cases where you actually need Disp to make a gap before a CaC. Which I think there's literally zero reason not to do, especially if it could still mean removing Engagement (as the safety would no longer be necessary).