Assistance with Materia for WHM Main

[Billythepancake]

Are you wanting max DPS? If you want the most damage possible it's Crit>DH>Det If you're wanting to go safer it can be Crit>Det>DH or even Crit>Det>SS since spellspeed is okay on WHM, but the other 2 healers don't want to stack SS. So if you ever have any interest in SCH or AST, which, I don't blame you if you don't because my god did SE just take those 2 to a back alley and beat them to a bloody pulp, then you either want Crit>Dh or Crit>det.

[Packetdancer]

Overall, I need some assistance with Materia for my WHM main. I am in the process of getting a full set of Augmented Facet gear at this time. I do not raid, but I may slowly dip my toes into doing the occasional Extreme primal in the future. I don't have any static group I am with, though I am in an FC and my husband mains as a Dancer.

First, out of curiosity, why Augmented Facet gear as opposed to Neo-Ishgardian? If it's a matter of just cost, I understand that, but I know folks who think Neo-Ishgardian is only needed if you're raiding and... while maybe true, that doesn't mean it isn't good gear for non-raid content if you have the option.

I know a lot of things in regard to healing comes with skill. Heck, I did Twinning last night and it was one heck of a ride. The group I had was amazing and patient with me, but I realized that I did have some trouble keeping the tank (GNB) alive. I don't really think I have mana issues, as I use Lucid Dreaming when I am ~ 7k mana.

I'd be curious where/how you felt you had trouble keeping the tank alive, because it might not be a materia thing (or even a skill thing) so much as a strategy thing, if that makes sense? I know a lot of people who approach healing reactively, but if you are proactive it can be far more effective.

I know a lot of people who save Benediction for "oh shit" moments, for instance, but a lot of times it can be far more effective if you deliberately let the tank drop to about 30% and then slap Benediction on them. (Too much below 30% and you run the risk of them dying before you can get Benediction off, in my experience. Thank you, server ticks...) That leaves more options to heal throughout the fight, since you haven't blown through all your lilies and won't have Tetra on cooldown.

Similarly, I find it's often better to mitigate damage or rely on passive healing rather than healing actively when you can avoid it. When the tank settles in, I drop Asylum on them or pop Temperance (for the damage reduction). That means I have to do less healing in the first place, and I'm far less likely to run out of options if I do need to heal the tank up.

This isn't to say you might not just be undergeared and having trouble actually putting out the healing 'oomph'! But it doesn't hurt to examine what can be done differently strategically, too.

So what should I look for in regards to Materia?

There are probably more optimal builds than I use, admittedly. But I personally go for spell speed until I reach my personal preferred cast time (2.40 seconds, which usually takes very little SpS melding), then Crit, then Det, then DH. I probably could up my damage output slightly if I melded more DH, but Crit and Det apply to both DPS and healing (since heals can crit) whereas DH only applies to DPS.

As others have noted, piety's not really necessary for WHM in general. However, if you also play AST and share gear between the two, a bit of piety may make sense because AST gets pretty MP-starved at times. I tend to meld piety onto my AST weaponry rather than the shared gear, but depending on the gear set, sometimes adding a tiny bit of piety doesn't hurt.

[Melichoir]

There are no diminished returns on substats, but there are tiers and scaling differences.

For example, if a stat tier is every 50 points, You will broadly get the same benefit from 220 points in a stat as you would 249 points in a stat. You can easily see this with SkS stat, but it works for all of them. As someone told me, think of it this way: The game rounds down for stat tiers. Then as others like Barraind posted, certain stats scale better. So the more you have the better bang for your buck you get. A noted trend is that at the beginning of an xPac, DH is a better stat to meld for (at least for tanks and DPS generally - cant say for healers) simply because you wont reach the 'crit threshhold', or the point where Crit scales better than DH. That usually comes a bit later when gear has better natural values of it.

I recommend you go join the Balance Discord though. they got guides and what not for every class, as well as people who are on usually who can answer any questions and help you out. It's a bit more responsive than the forums. It's a good resource if your looking to work on your game play. Just be open minded and humble and people will generally be cool.

[AngelCheese77]

I priortize personally Det>Crit>DH

How does this work for you in solo/group sessions? A good balance of damage and healing?

[AngelCheese77]

First, out of curiosity, why Augmented Facet gear as opposed to Neo-Ishgardian? If it's a matter of just cost, I understand that, but I know folks who think Neo-Ishgardian is only needed if you're raiding and... while maybe true, that doesn't mean it isn't good gear for non-raid content if you have the option.

In truth, when I looked up gear from Eulmore, I saw posts about that specifically. That and my husband told me about it since someone made him a set to then use tomes on. Eh, I guess part of me also wants the best I can get outside of raiding as a safety net.

I'd be curious where/how you felt you had trouble keeping the tank alive, because it might not be a materia thing (or even a skill thing) so much as a strategy thing, if that makes sense? I know a lot of people who approach healing reactively, but if you are proactive it can be far more effective.

Well was my first time there, and I do know I panicked a little. I don't know much about GNB, but their HP plummeted real fast after 1 or 2 hits. I have been told numerous times that materia only matters in end game (Lvl 80 right now), so I have been in the mind that it is needed to handle the mechanics of the harder dungeons.

I know a lot of people who save Benediction for "oh shit" moments, for instance, but a lot of times it can be far more effective if you deliberately let the tank drop to about 30% and then slap Benediction on them. (Too much below 30% and you run the risk of them dying before you can get Benediction off, in my experience. Thank you, server ticks...) That leaves more options to heal throughout the fight, since you haven't blown through all your lilies and won't have Tetra on cooldown.

Similarly, I find it's often better to mitigate damage or rely on passive healing rather than healing actively when you can avoid it. When the tank settles in, I drop Asylum on them or pop Temperance (for the damage reduction). That means I have to do less healing in the first place, and I'm far less likely to run out of options if I do need to heal the tank up.

Yes, that I do understand. I've learned over the times that overhealing is just as bad as underhealing. I normally start with a Medica II, then after the tank gets aggro, I slap a Regen on them and the shielding thingie. But that first boss in Twinning .. JFC, I dunno if it was because of such a small arena or something else.

This isn't to say you might not just be undergeared and having trouble actually putting out the healing 'oomph'! But it doesn't hurt to examine what can be done differently strategically, too.

Oh I'm sure my healing rotation isn't optimal, and I do get a bit anxious when healing when stressed, but I LOVE healing more than the other classes. Not sure why. I've never felt bored as a WHM, and saving a group with a well timed healer LB3 gives me fuzzies.

[AngelCheese77]

There are no diminished returns on substats, but there are tiers and scaling differences.

For example, if a stat tier is every 50 points, You will broadly get the same benefit from 220 points in a stat as you would 249 points in a stat. You can easily see this with SkS stat, but it works for all of them. As someone told me, think of it this way: The game rounds down for stat tiers. Then as others like Barraind posted, certain stats scale better. So the more you have the better bang for your buck you get. A noted trend is that at the beginning of an xPac, DH is a better stat to meld for (at least for tanks and DPS generally - cant say for healers) simply because you wont reach the 'crit threshhold', or the point where Crit scales better than DH. That usually comes a bit later when gear has better natural values of it.

I recommend you go join the Balance Discord though. they got guides and what not for every class, as well as people who are on usually who can answer any questions and help you out. It's a bit more responsive than the forums. It's a good resource if your looking to work on your game play. Just be open minded and humble and people will generally be cool.

I'll search for that Discord since it doesn't seem to be an open on I can find .. hm. Thanks for the info!

[Packetdancer]

In truth, when I looked up gear from Eulmore, I saw posts about that specifically. That and my husband told me about it since someone made him a set to then use tomes on. Eh, I guess part of me also wants the best I can get outside of raiding as a safety net.

Neo-Ishgardian gear (specifically the HQ variants) is the best crafted gear you can get right now; Facet gear is the previous crafted tier. Basically, it goes (more or less):

1. i450 gear = Facet gear (crafted) or Edengate gear (obtained from the normal mode of the first four Eden raids)
2. i460 gear = Augmented Facet gear (upgraded from crafted) or YoRHa gear (dropped in Copied Factory) or Deepshadow (bought with tomes of Phantasmagoria)
3. i470 gear = Augmented Deepshadow (upgraded from Deepshadow) or Edengrace gear (obtained in savage mode of the first four Eden raids)
4. i480 gear = Neo-Ishgardian gear (crafted) or Edencall gear (obtained in normal mode of the second four Eden raids) or Idealized gear (obtained in the Extreme mode of Memoria Misera)
5. i485 weapon = beginning stage of the Resistance Weapon relic weapon.
6. i490 gear = Crystarium Gear (bought with tomes of Allegory)
7. i500 gear = Augmented Crystarium Gear (upgraded from Crystarium gear) or Edenchoir gear (obtained in savage mode of the second four Eden raids)

Up to i470 was from the previous tier; when the second set of Eden raids dropped, that's when we got i480/i490/i500 gear. I'm guessing the guide you found was from before then, where Augmented Facet was the best you could get outside of the i470 raid gear.

I'd expect we'll see another option for i490 (gear dropped in the next YoRHa alliance raid, probably) in 5.3. When the final set of Eden raids comes out, there'll be another set of gear stacked on top of the i500 stuff. So right now, the i480 Neo-Ishgardian gear is the best crafted stuff you can get, and the Crystarium Gear is the best tome-based purchase (though the Crystarium weapon requires drops from the Eden raids to get, presently). If you aren't into the idea of raiding to climb the gear ladder, Neo-Ishgardian will do you fine right now.

So short of "the Facet gear is the option I can afford", there's no reason to go for Augmented Facet over Neo-Ishgardian at this point if you have the option. And you can pick up an i485 relic weapon more or less for free (well, for doing a solo instance for the first one), which will be slightly better than the Neo-Ishgardian weapon.

Well was my first time there, and I do know I panicked a little. I don't know much about GNB, but their HP plummeted real fast after 1 or 2 hits. I have been told numerous times that materia only matters in end game (Lvl 80 right now), so I have been in the mind that it is needed to handle the mechanics of the harder dungeons.

Materia isn't really necessary for the endgame dungeons, but it doesn't hurt. And it can give you more breathing room if you're finding yourself pressed more than you're comfortable with.

I've learned over the times that overhealing is just as bad as underhealing. I normally start with a Medica II, then after the tank gets aggro, I slap a Regen on them and the shielding thingie. But that first boss in Twinning .. JFC, I dunno if it was because of such a small arena or something else.

Everyone's got their own approach! For trash pulls I tend to throw Divine Benison ('the shielding thingie') on the tank as they pull the first set, then drop Regen on them after they settle in with their final set of mobs. If they're a little squishier than I'd like, I drop Asylum or pop Temperance fairly quickly, but otherwise I'll just start spamming Holy; that will keep the mobs stunned for a while (and stunned mobs are mobs that aren't damaging the tank) and wait on Asylum or Temperance until the mobs are no longer able to be stunned.

And the Twinning has a couple of unpleasant trash pulls anyway. (Looking at you, Mark CXLIV Thermocoil Boilbusters. You and your overlapping donut AoEs are the worst-behaved coffee machines ever. I liked your distant Mark XIV ancestor, but you? Not so much.)

Oh I'm sure my healing rotation isn't optimal, and I do get a bit anxious when healing when stressed, but I LOVE healing more than the other classes. Not sure why. I've never felt bored as a WHM, and saving a group with a well timed healer LB3 gives me fuzzies.

Oh, it's not about 'optimal'; outside of raids, 'optimal' is just overkill. It's more about finding the strategy that's most comfortable for you. For me, that's mitigating when I can and generally ensuring I don't have to heal as much in the first place. That might be a strategy that works better for you. But I also know non-raid healers who find they prefer to react in the heat of the moment because trying to plan ahead stresses them out more. My point was just that experimenting with different approaches to find what works best for you might make more of a difference than just materia does.

I feel you on the healing thing, though. I DPS and tank as well, but in my heart I'm always a healer. I started out as a CNJ when I started the game, and as much as I love AST as well, I will remain a WHM main in my heart until the day the game shuts down or I'm hit by a bus.

I'll search for that Discord since it doesn't seem to be an open on I can find .. hm. Thanks for the info!

The Balance website is... not really up to date, but the Discord link is there on the front page, or you can just join directly.

Hopefully this all helps a little?

[LaylaTsarra]

How does this work for you in solo/group sessions? A good balance of damage and healing?

I think so. I don't raid so I can't comment on what might be optimum melds for that venue. I main whm so I always gear and meld that first. Healing is my first priority but I enjoy dps'ing as well.

[Stepjam]

Generally speaking, on nearly every class in the game you meld crit, and if you can't meld crit on a piece of gear, you meld direct hit, and if somehow you can't meld that either, you meld determination. That's a safe meld on basically every class in the game.

There are some odd exceptions (on WAR for instance, you skip direct hit and go straight to determination), but for the majority of classes, the above is a safe meld. Depending on your class, you'll also want to meld a certain amount of skill/spell speed, but they tend to be so you can hit certain GCD tiers or cast times. I dunno if any healers really want spellspeed, but tanks and DPSs tend to want a certain amount of speed melds.

[kaynide]

This doesn’t answer your question, but just wanted to say in case you or others are overly worried about materia.

I have played the game from 2.0 launch and have not yet once used materia outside of required for quests AND crafting gear.

So, have I been subpar, probably... but I have been able to clear all content thus far with no issue (I do not do savage/hardcore level raids).

I would say not to worry about it/meld what you like as your gear is just going to get replaced next patch, but that isn’t your question!

That said, I will be watching this thread for ideas myself as I genuinely might learn something useful.